Phil69

All right, after a first crash and repair to my Aerostar kit, I decided to give the SPAD concept a try. I wanted to get a sturdy plane I would not be afraid to crash to make some progress on my flying.

Finally found some Coroplast, got ripped off by the lady selling it ($25 a sheet!!, bought 2...).

Now whoever said building a SPAD plane was fast ??? It took me a whole week end to get a decent wing made out of the stuff, after a painfully slow learning process. I got to admit the result looks good, but I probably built my aerostar wing in about the same time, and it looks a lot better. I spare you the headache of trying to glue the coro with CA. On that stuff, CA is like wood glue, takes hours of clamping to cure.

The SPAD wing has some dihedral, double spar, nice ailerons, BUT it is approximately twice as heavy as the built up balsa one! Not sure my .40 engine will like it.

Then on to the fuse... Ah! The fuse! Can't find the magical US (or Canadian for that matter) square piping anywhere close so I decided to give it a try with Coro... Unless I build a shoebox, there is no way I can get the thing to be straight!

Also, nothing comes close to the joy of cutting Coro at a slight angle from the flutes... Impossible to keep the cut straight. Ended up using a razor plane to straighten up the cut... Talk about saving time.

What am I doing wrong ? I am about ready to buy a Durastik. For the price I paid for the Coro, I get a complete airplane...

Ok, back to my GP Cub 40. At least on that thing the glue sticks...

Philippe

PS: I am only expressing my frustration and not trying to start a shooting war about SPAD vs. classic. Considering the success of the SPAD idea, I am fully aware I must be doing something wrong... but man, is this frustrating!

mtthomps

My Feedback: (2)

I was a little intimidated when I first had to cut some coro. But, I fell back on many years of modeling a lot of things. I just took a piece of 2x4. clamped it to the table over the coro about 1/8th inch from the cut line, took a utility knife, BORE DOWN, kept it pushed HARD against the 2x4. Viola, I cut all the way through, super straight cut. I did the same thing with the folds. I clamped the 2x4 down, took a large phillips head screwdriver, and BORE DOWN HARD, and crushed the coro, REPEATEDLY. I then moved the 2x4 about 3/16 inch parallel to the first scrore, and did it again. The trick was to keep running the screwdriver down the length of coro until it was not "fighting" me anymore. When I folded the wing over, the leading edge was slightly rounded, and arrow straight. Just a few tipe. All of this did not take me long to do. Less than 2 hours to do the wing, and tail feathers. It beats the living daylights out of balsa. This would have been a weeks worth of work.

Phil69

That's interesting, when I did the scoring for the folds, the flute side I was scoring tended to break quite easily. I wonder if my Coro is more brittle than it should be. It could also explain some of the trouble with the cuts. Has anyone else experienced that ?

onewayHis

I hear ya Phil, but I gotta agree with "mt". Hang in there and keep building - it gets easier and faster every time you get down to it.

I built a wing jig - 2x4 w/45 degree angle screwed down onto a "wide" sawhorse (searched the tips links on www.spadtothebone.com for ideas, etc.), bought a metal 60" ruler (to clamp and cut straight with), tried a bunch of glues on scraps (still found gorilla glue {wing spars} and medium CA methods the best)....and finally just started going for it. My first one took me about a week, too. The second...about 2 days....you get the idea.

I will warn you though...this is an addiction....once you start building and designing and gluing and....you can't stop. I have about 4 wings and fuses waiting "in the wings"....

For me half the fun has been the comments from others at the field after I tell them how much my plane cost and then flying it. So far I've had a "first flight on a new plane every weekend" for the past month.

Remember it was Mae West who said "When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm SPAD, I'm even better"....

DB

Woodsy

OK lets try and break it down

did you check the suplies page for supliers or try ordering on line?

Yes it can be, did you have a read over the hints and tips info to help out

Sounds like you used to much glue, you only need a drop every inch or so the info is in the hints section


It souldn't be any where near twice as heavy, what plane are you building (the Debonair?) if you used 4mm coro 1 spar is plenty, the plans arn't an exact science, more like info on how people HAVE built things and detailed sugestions.

not sure on what stores you have localy but again the supliers page should help or ask here at the forum, some one should be able to help, and yep a square shoe box is a good way to start from there you can cut and shape the fuzz a bit BUT a square shoe box will fly fine.
Also cosider using an aluminium fuzz like the BUHOR or get some 21/2" square ally to use as formers for a coro fuzz

Yep again, there is a "knack" to it, a good sharp blade and a straight edge is a start then cut in to the grain with 2 or 3 cuts not 1 deep one.


Some one here on the forum may live near you and be willing to help out, don't give up SPAD will save you heaps of money and is very rewarding when you see your creation fly.


And most of all DON'T STRESSS, we're here to help, my first SPAD was a Debonair made from all 5mm coro, it weighed in at about 71/2lb and looked like a flying dunny (read piece of crap) but it did fly and taught me a lot about building and flying, my second and third Deb's were lighter and better but even now i would say my planes are far from pretty BUT they fly great and i can turn out a DPS in about 10 hours from start to in the air flying.

go and have a good read of all the hints and tips sections and check to see if a fellow SPADer is near you.

good luck

ChrisSpad

Cutting the coro so that the knife is pulled into the straightedge, and not away makes a huge difference:



On another note, how long did it take you to build your first balsa plane? I'd be willing to bet it was much longer than a week? Its a whole different kind of construction, you've spent a week and learned a total new way to build, to me, thats doesn't sound so bad.
Weightwise, its hard to say for sure, but, in alot of cases, the coro wings are heavier. For most of my wings, i use 2 mil coro, and the wing generally end up the same weight, or a bit lighter, depending on the size.

Tattoo

My first Spad wing took an entire Saturday afternoon to build. When I was done that wing must have had a pound of epoxy, contact cement and CA in it...trying to get the coro to stick together. I will admit I had my doubts, especially since I had been building balsa wings for 20 years, knew how to do it, and knew how they flew. At that time, Spad didn't exist, Kraut and I were pretty much alone in the endever, and there wasn't a hints and tips page yet that adresses these issues, and there weren't hundreds of Spadders on the internet to ask for suggestions. Was it frustrating? You bet! But...the plane flew!!! All the frustration turned into excitment. To see something I created from materials that weren't supposed to fly was priceless...and it still is every time. Suddenly the frustration of that first plastic airplane turned into pure fun. No more hanger rash. No more covering. No more fuel soaked wood. No more painting and doping. No more rough landings ending my flying day. The next day I gave a very big box full of 20 years woth of balsa building materials away. My second wing took about 2 hours to build. now here it is 5 years an several hundred wings later, and due to the pooling of ideas over the internet, a quick flashing, a drop of CA every 1/2 inch, a spritz of water mist, and my wing glue joints are rock solid in seconds and my wings are ready to fly in about half an hour. In the last year or so it's becoming more and more apparent that the 2.5" pipe is getting harder and harder to find everywhere. Smaller hardware stores still have it sometimes or can order it...but even then, there are guys who just can't get it. Some Spadders have taken up the challange and offer it mail order http://www.spadparts.com and many including myself have gone in search of other fuselage materials like the aluminum channel...with fantastic results. Please never let frustration get you down. bring it to the forums, let everyone learn from it, draw from an incredable wealth of experience....and when your Spad takes to the air, you'll know right away why we do this

nukes

I feel your pain. 4 mil is a headache to workwith. That is why I only use it on the bottom of the wing and use 2 mil on top. Coro is easier to work with over time.

Yes some are more brittle then others. I have some white that is very flexible and some orange that is very brittle. I found that the brittle stuff is stiffer and works great for control surfaces, and the soft stuff for everything else.

Her is trick at glueing, Get a hot glue gun and put a little hot glue every so often between the CA dots. Hot glue by itself will come a part when it gets hot again, like in the summer time, so I prob, would not use it exclusivly. But it mends quickly and therfor will hold your other glue joints together while they dry.

And remember the less CA you use in each dot the less it takes to dry. More is not better. Large amount of ca in one spat take forever to dry. Also on the ca some people get a water mister and mist the CA before sticking it, Some say this helps activate it.

Your 40 should not have any prob pulling the plane. Also if you do the wing with 4 mil on bottom and 2 mil on top, weight is cut down considerably.

PS. Order your next shipment of coro now form HARBOR or wherever, before you need it. That way when your in a pinch for more you won't be temped to visit that scam artist that sold you the coro for $25.

Good luck and trust me, It took me two week sto put my first together, and now two months later it takes me only a couple of hours.

good luck

big-oly

The first thing i did was play around with small scrap pieces
practicing scoring & bending until i was comfortable with how it worked. Then i moved on to gluing trying differnt glues till i found out what worked best for me. lots of people recomend differnt glues. the one like best is loctite 404
sets fast and holds like iron you will destroy coro before pulling it apart.

Byrdman

Try using GOOP glue on the coro. That is all I use now. Do a search at the two spad forums. check it out

nukes

Byrdman,

Just wondering, how fast does the goop set up?

pinball-RCU

Philippe,
Thank you so much for writing! Spadonians frequently get overly enthusiastic and optimistic, so it's really good to get an honest report from a first-time builder.

On the issue of paying too much for coro (and the fact you could get a complete plane for the same price): I wouldn't sweat it too much. Nobody likes to get ripped off, but you bought enough coro for 8 wings. Except for the fact that Spadonians love building new wings, you've bought, effectively, a life time supply. It's almost impossible to permanently damage a coro wing.

On the time it takes to build a Spad. You are right, it's been oversold. Most of us take much longer to build a Spad than Tattoo does (like 5 times as long). But, it gets much quicker. After my first DPS, I was able to build the next three (together) in about the same time to build the first one.

On the issue of weight: Using 2mm coro brings the weight down a little, but I hope nobody here said a coro wing weighs the same as balsa. A balsa wing is a thing of great beauty, incredible strong, but very light weight. On the other hand, the coro wing is light enough, and it's much less expensive and faster to build, and a bit more rugged.

On the squareness of the fuse: I thought a lot about this when I built my first durable model, a U.S. Aircore. I figured the Aircore would drive a wood-builder nuts. With wood, some patience, and a good square, you can achieve perfection. Perfectly square, perfectly parallel, etc. With coro, it just doesn't happen. The stuff doesn't lay flat enough to even get the square on it. Don't bother. Just get it so it looks right. The flexibility of the material is a good thing, not a bad one.

On the issue of glue: In addition to the comments from others, I would recommend coro primer for CA. You don't hear about it much because in Spad terms, it's expensive ($20 will buy you enough for maybe 6 planes). In terms of wood modeling that's spare change, so I use it just to avoid the hassle and skills of flashing.

On the issue of cutting coro at an angle: OK, there's a little skill involved here, but compared to the hassle of, say, sanding the leading edge of a wood wing or hinging the control surfaces of a wood plane, or ironing on Monokote, I just don't think there's any comparison. It wouldn't be fun if there weren't some skill involved.

Which ever way you decide to go, Good Luck!

nukes

Cutting at an angle is not too bad if you cut in light multiple strokes. if you try to cut in one deep stroke, the line will not be straight. light cuts.

FrankC29

There's no shortcut to learning how to do something new. Remember, you are building a miniature flying airplane, so right there you are doing something that 99% of the population wouldn't even consider, and regardless of how Spad has made the process more enjoyable, it's still a technical feat to do it right, something to be proud of. The only truly pain free way to get your first Spad in your hands is to have someone else do all the work. The first Spad is a pain, not so much the fuse if you're working with PVC, bit the wing will give you fits. That's just the way it is, unless you get extremely lucky or have a Spadder living nearby. I went through 3 whole sheets of 4mm before I made a decent Dominator wing. I almost gave up on Spad, all because of crappy glue!! Don't do something similar. Once you get past this bottleneck, it's smooth sailing. Now I can whip a Spad together in short order, and I'm having an absolute blast. Hang in there a little longer.

Phil69

Guys, thanks for the feedback and support!
I will get that thing to fly, even if it means strapping that wing to my back and jumping off a cliff!

Byrdman

The GOOP does take 24 hours to set up. I usually cut out all the wing parts, and the last thing I do before I go to bed is goop everything in place, except the spar(I do use CA on it, wood to coro sets up in about 20-30 seconds). Then I clamp everything down for the night and go to bed. When I get home after work the next day everything is set up for good. I have never had a wing come apart on me yet with this method. I have also never had a wing come apart on me using the CA as well, but I prefer the goop for my building.

The best reason I can think of with the goop is that after everything is clamped down, you can still move the pieces if the clamping moves them out of their correct position.

With my building, building and flying in the same day is not an option with two young, 2 & 4 years old, children around. Most of my building is done after everyone is down for the night. I can still get one from idea to flying in the 6 hour range, but I can never get a straight 6 hours to work

Let me know if you need any additional information,
Byrdman

PS for the person that started this thread, please stick with it. The first wing I tried to make took me three tries, almost a full sheet of coro. but now I can put one together in about two hours or less, not counting GOOP drying time. I have built 9 wings so far and they keep getting easier and easier.

Chunky C

Phil69

Don't worry about getting an absolutely perfect looking wing. Shoot I wings that have bows, bends, dips, and one that has the ailerons taped on!

Building with plastic just takes getting used to new ways of doing things. I bet the first scratch built wing that you made you had many questions and problems with. My first plane, an ARF, I built with my instructor. There was no way I could have done it and got it right the first time.

A tip would be to build your wings from all 2mm coro. You'll have a harder time finding the 2mm stuff. Best if you order it from Harbor Sales. But anyway, I only build all 2mm wings or the RNAF wings (4mm on the bottom, 2mm on the top) now. The 4mm is just way to heavy.

You should be able to get the 25 size planes in at 2.5lbs. There were designed with combat in mind after all.

Chunk

Daryl

I haven't built a Spad for probably a year now - you can only fly 6 or 7 at a time - HA!
: Anyway, I decided I needed a QWHOR so I it took about 45min before I was ready to put on the radio gear. That is an easy build. I had two scraps of 4 mil, neither of which would give me a 19" cord, but did give me enough for a 14.25" cord X 32" span. The tail feathers are normal SPad stuff - cut the out- yup, that looks about right. With the square 5/8" aluminum tubing at 28" long, the weight appeared it would come out at about 3 lbs., so I put the .40 OSMAXH on it. this engine really likes 10X5APC's. I guess, in making all the connecters, etc, it took another 1 1/2hrs. to scavenge and mount all the servos, etc. With the battery behind tank, the C iof G came out perfect. That Square tubing is certainly the stiffest fuse I've ever made in a small plane. It came out at 3#2@ with an area of 467square inches so the wing loading's about 15.4:1. That's a bit porky, but the .40 should be able to get it airborn. - HA!

ChrisSpad

Daryl, I think you are in for a whole new world of flying. Remember to slow it down, and horse around with it. They're the most fun at full throttle, and no airspeed. To quote the master "HA!!"