jaav

Well just finished ny BUHOR its fitted with a Magnum 52 4stroke, and fitted it with the dihediral wing, she is huge when its all together..
Was going to fly this morning started up the 52 had air in the line and shut down, restarted it and she kicked back and spun the prop off.....Left the right allen key at the workshop bench...

bugger.....Next week. Bloody Murphy law....

Spadinator

Spun the prop off? WOW I have never heard of that! Torque that thing down!!

MrGreenSpeed

I've had it happen on 2 strokes that are too rich, doesn't matter how tight the prop nut is as the kick back is quick enough to spin the nut/hub loose.

Better luck next week jaav
Jeff

rrh

I have spun a couple 4 stroke props off. That's why some manufacturers have a jamb nut on the prop nut. Make sure it is good and tight. My Saito manual claims a too rich needle setting could possibly cause an in flight kick back that could throw a prop.

jaav

the engine is still running in so she was rich at the time..

Went out this morning 8knt wings, ggrrr.
Fired her up, taxied in to the wind, was just going to do a fast taxi but she lifted the tail and became airborne in a few meters throtle was only about 2/5th.
oh well shes up lets trim as I was banking checking the ailerons It went quiet.
Oh well does she glide? just as well she had height, went down wind and turned in to it and touch down. Perfect.....

the bloody clunker and hose in the tank came apart....

fixed it but the wind picked up....

just watching seabreeze site and its dropping maybe....

jaav

Well the wind dropped below 3knts back to the beach.

The wind had tured to a sea beeze about 10knts.. no one around and I was itching.
what a sound and sight. Its my 1st glow flight in about 10-12 years....
supprised how she rolls and upside down.
had problems landing and the wind was increasing, all she wanted to do is a ground effect, Had to push it to ground, A bit too hard and broke the U/C mounting block.....
tide was coming in so it was time to leave (10 meter tides).

I am Very impressed......

joe_weisman

Congrats on your success!! Pictures and video?

Joe

MrGreenSpeed

Congrats on a successful maiden flight and perfect dead stick landing

Like Joe said We need pics.
A video would be cool too.[8D]
Jeff

jaav

Well I took the camera with me this morning but some idiot left the card in computer!!!!!

Bad flights 2 props (landing) and now a bent chassis......

Im suffering badly from aileron flutter...

the pics are after the crash today.
the U/C was too low and the prop was going to the the deck when the tail lifted so I mounted a plastic box to raise it. the hard landing last week in the strong wind crushed the box (it was suposed to soften the land), So I made a swing arm suspension with springs as you can see in the pics.
Every nut and bolt is fitted with lock nuts, I forgot the U/C to arm bolts and as Murphy will have it 3 came out, As I touched down the was a prop beaking up at the UC hit the deck...Oh well the prop was the one used to run-in the engine...


The wing has no damage to it, It just looks like a prop, the fuselage and the swing arm.

jaav

I dont know what happend onthe last post pressed the wrong button..

Flutter, at a level flight no problems when I bank using rudder or ailerons the right aileron buzzes and I can see it then it drops the right wing.
we cut off the tips on the aileron at about 45 deg tried that, no dif. there was some slack in the push rod removed that, still the same.
so we were going to cut more of the aileron but as I was coming in to land I was keeping the power up and trying to keep level and the wing buzzed then dropped that side I was too low and she hit the ground twisted the chassis....

Any Ideas wast going on....Please....

I have a Flycam1 to be fitted next week the we will get some vids of Cable beach..

joe_weisman

Looks like your aileron links are too flexible. Maybe use a stronger servo, and definitely loose those bends in the actuator rods. Make sure the links are tight, and there's no slack anywhere. (I assume you made a standard hinge by cutting out a single flute.)

Run a few skewers along the back flutes from both sides.

And you should be done with the flutter.

Joe

jaav

Thanks joe for the reply, the RH link wasnt straight it had a slight curve in it, I removed the bend and also swaped sides but still the same. the links are realy stiff and take a fair effort to bend.
there is carbon fiber flat bar running under the aileron glued and screwed to the controll horn if any thing the LH side has a bit of movement than the RHS.
the servo is a new Futaba metal gear type.

I read some where the to help stop flutter you cut more of the tips of the aileron. what is the amount...

After washing it down I noticed that the LH wing has a flat bottom and the RH has a more symmetrical foil. would this realy upset the wing?

joe_weisman

The asymmetrical wing could cause trim problems but not flutter.

The aileron tip clipping is something I've tried in the past but it never did me much good.

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post - I've stopped making big wings with one servo in the middle long ago. I always install two servos, half way down each wing. That way you cut down the length of aileron twist from horn to tip - to about a half. Which brings me to yet another little tip - SPAD horns are normally made of wide triangles of PVC. When the horn is glued/screwed to the aileron it should also serve to stiffen the aileron.

Joe

jaav

thanks Joe.The ailerons have a CF bar under them and using commercial horns glued and screwed together.
I was thinking of adding a extra servo, now I will do it.
Just hoping the replacment props get here for the weekend.
rebuilding the new chassis tonite better than the last one.

see how we go...

MrGreenSpeed

Good Idea.
I use dual aileron servos in all My Spads now.

Check the aileron servo You are now using to make sure it doesn't have any stripped gears.

Better safe than sorry.

Good luck on Your next flight.

Jeff.

jaav

Thanks Jeff.
New servos and adjustable rods.
have camera mounted to wing.
see how we go...

TruBlu02

I wouldn't be surprised if the single aileron servo is in fact the cause of the fluttering problem. My first SPAD did the same thing until I switched to dual servos. Good luck with your Version 2!

jaav

well here is a shot of the new chassis and servos for the ailerons...Still very windy at the moment, see how it is in the morning..Fly-cam-one tested now for the wind...

jaav

What a great morning flying, nothing to fix....
the wind was still up about 7-8knts but steady.
Had the camera under the wing for the 1st flight, the lens was a bit high, but for the time it was ok.
had 4 flights and unbeknown to me one of my mates had built a SPAD debonair and was his first flight today (tore the UC of at landing 1st flight for about 15yrs.

Im having a lot of problems landing.
Shes a floater and has to be forced to ground. When she touches down I think the spring UC throws her back up. The engine is dead after touch down from ground strike, then she will glide down but still heavy on touch down. on the video you can hear the springs "boing".
Is my landing or are they a real floater.
My other ELECTRIC tail dragers land. Dhat do you guys& gals think?

Thanks Jim..

jaav

hi Guys,
Having a bit of murphy downloading the video its over 100mb and wont let me do it...

Forgot to tell you that the flutter is gone, the chassis is 1.5" longer for the fuel tank, on the first flight today all i had to do is trim the elevator. she was a very neutal flier.
inverted flight was very good as well.

This is the first glow plane that Ive done 10 flights without breaking a wing.
Just have to sort out the UC and my landings...

Villa

Hello jaav
Looks like you are having a good time. I would like to help you with your landings but I need to see them first. You say it is a floater and that you have to force it down. That is bad. Can you slow the engine idle? It should be as slow as possible and still be reliable. Having a lower pitch prop can also slow the landing speed. Practice flying high at a safe altitude and slowing to landing speed. What can you do to cause the plane to drop vertically faster but not increase the air speed? You do that by gently giving it up elevator, as much as it can handle and stay under control. Practice all of this at a safe altitude. During the landing approach with the engine at idle,, if you want to lower the altitude faster with out increasing air speed, use up elevator. To extend your approach (land further down the runway) give it a little throttle. Always gently. Tell me more about your experience with your spring loaded landing gear.

joe_weisman

Thanks for the good report! I was wondering.

Flexible landing gear springs without any damping devices would probably give most landings a comical hop. I'd guess the springs should be stiff enough to save a bad landing but too stiff to kangaroo a normal landing.

Just a thought - if the nose doesn't seem to drop enough when you're slowing down it might indicate a slightly rear cg. Moving the wing back a cm or two might be easy to check. It shouldn't be dangerous to the plane, and the worse you'll get is a slightly more sluggish flier.

Joe

jaav

thanks all.

I was running the 12x5 prop 1st and at idle when taxing she will roll straight away. so she is still developing power at idle, switched to a 11x7 and still the same. Cant lower the idle any more before stalling. Im going to try and cut the engine just as I clear the sand hills. When I finaly get the video loaded you can see with the sea breeze we have to come over the sand hills which are about 20 meters before touch down, have performed a few "Go-arounds" as the water is comming up.
The idle at alt and nose up to increase drag as what Villa says sounds like a good training.

The springs might go this weekend or make them much stiffer, I should remove the shock from one of the Dead RC cars to stop the rebound, mmmm.

see how we go and if my mate can land the Debonair without tearing off the nose wheel, now a tail dragger....

I have a 91 4s looking for a SPAD what do you guys recomend?
Thanks

Here is the video link not edited..http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=S8DHYcgc8W0

jaav

Well we went flying this morning, the wind said stay in bed, but no Iwas itchin.

we had the 2 SPADs and had to use a diferent area which is just a dirt road on a salt plain.
the wind was about 12-18knts. I sent up the BUHOR with the flycam1 was getting pushed around a bit up high but was having fun.

Landing time! I was practicing the low speed and flare out at hieght, but trying to do it on the ground with a slight cross wind she still floats and has to be flown to the ground, had a few go arounds.
When I finaly had touch down she hit hard and broke another prop.
Went down on pitch again to try and stop the thrust at idle, tried landing again but the wind was turning direction and had to land in the bush but I did kill the engine to stop her from floating.
Is there any problems with going below the reconmended prop sizes to try and stop the thrust?

The Debonair lasted about 22 seconds and is a total cant tell wich way is up by the printing on the wing.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_zgcxF1PNo4
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=C17DmYWh180
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BuKDeJX9ZIk

Villa

Hello jaav
I do not use 4 cycle engines, only 2 cycle. Many of my friends use 4 cycle. I am always amazes at how slow the idle is on their 4 cycle engines. Some of the engines sound like they are ready to stop, but they do not. I cannot advice you on adjusting your engine, but I believe your idle speed is just too high. Read your manual again and again and again. Ask for help in the engine forum. Try to always land into the wind. Your ground speed will me much lower.