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Gas Powered World Models P51 GS

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Old 01-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #76
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ORIGINAL: BarryReade

For racing I would figure 5-7 min max for launching, milling around for the air start, 10 lap heat race, and landing. So 12 oz would be more that enough maybe go down to an 8-10 oz tank. You don't want to carry anymore fuel than you need for that race. I will probably use a 10 oz tank to start off with and evaluate it from there.

I was going to usePennzoildino based for the break in. And then Amsoil Saber 100:1 2 stroke oil mixed at 50:1 after break in. I have 8-10 bottles of the Amsoil on the shelf and I haven't read anything overwhelmingly bad about it. There is always someone somewhere that says a particular oil is bad and really they didn't mix it properly or forgot to mix any oil into the fuel so it can be a mess if you aren't into lubricants and understand. I used Belray MC-1 for years in my dirt bikes and it was great. The old Klotz red can was a great oil. There are many really good ones out there but there are always those that can mess up a w$##@ dream so to speak.
A full length pipe requires fuse length in the belly. Do these models have enough? The RPM and Torque boost you get is very good from a full tuned pipe but it may not be practical. A tuned canister will give some boost and require lots less length.

I use 50:1 BelRay MC-1 motorcycle racing synthetic from the start, break in included. It takes a little longer to fully wear andloosenone to where all the tightness is gone(50-75 flights), but to me, that's no issue since I fly a lot. Amsoil mixed 50:1works much better than at 100:1 from what I hear. There are at least a half dozen others that will do the job just great.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:14 PM
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If I didn't have so much saber on the shelf I would run other oil.  I don't fly as much as you do, a lot less so i will break it in on dino oil and then shift over after gallon or so breakin.  That MC-1 is a great oil.  It protected my big bore Yamaha very well.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:50 AM
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James;
You beat me to the install of the DLE 35ra, so I'd like to ask a question. Your comments on your new engine were as expected, and I'm sure after allowing time for a little break - in she'll out perform anything out there.

I would like to know if the weight of the DLE 35 is condusive to the rear installation of the 2 elevator servos, in other words I don't want to add extra weights up front to offset heavy tail mods.

I almost have the $$$ to get this engine, which I plan on purchasing from Valley View RC who will provide a single shaft mod for only $7 installed.
This might make the engine a smidgent lighter, but my reason for getting this is A - simlicity and B - I don't care for drilling a bunch of holes in prop hubs in this size.

If tail weight isn't an issue, then I might continue some work on the fuse.

John
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS


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ORIGINAL: cjbotox


I almost have the $$$ to get this engine, which I plan on purchasing from Valley View RC who will provide a single shaft mod for only $7 installed.
This might make the engine a smidgent lighter, but my reason for getting this is A - simlicity and B - I don't care for drilling a bunch of holes in prop hubs in this size.

If tail weight isn't an issue, then I might continue some work on the fuse.

John
The single bolt/nut prop adapter is actually heavier than the 4 bolts used to mount the prop.

The most powerful engine in this class is the OS GT33. It out-turns a ZDZ40cc. The OS on pipe turns a 18.5x12, 19x11.5, 20x10.5 APC at 7800-8000 rpm at full revs on premium gas. At least my 3 do; I'd expect similar from others also. On muffler, expect 7000-7200; that's how much boost the pipe adds.

ASALWAYS....YMMV
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:00 AM
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Matt, have you tried any nitro in the fuel?  Like 5-10% in addition to the tuned pipe.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:12 AM
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ORIGINAL: BarryReade

Matt, have you tried any nitro in the fuel? Like 5-10% in addition to the tuned pipe.
No Barry, sorry. Reliability is the most important key for me.Engine isgoing on its third season and I've had zero maintenance on it. I think if I started to add stuff in the gas, I would likely start to see more rust (and more maintenance) in the engine.

In my application (2 meter pattern)the engine is actually too strong and I don't fly past 2/3rds throttle on even the most extended vertcal.The models are kept around 11 lbs tho.Engine thrust at full revs on pipe, as is w/o nitro or methanol is 24-26 lbs.

So a WWII modelforyour applicationweighs, what? 15-18 lbs give or take? Not quite a 2:1 ratio of thrust to weight, but should be plenty of fun in racing

I'd like to see a race of these sometime! A bunch of years ago I raced Sport 240's in North Fla. The engines were glow, 1.80-2.20 cu.in. so very similar to what you guys are doing I think.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS

John,
I have not added any additional nose weight to the Mustang. My fuel tank is as far forward as I can get it. My batteries are behind and above the fuel tank. I have the 2 elevator servos in the rear.

I am using the Xoar 19 X 8 prop and turning 7300. Thats with 93 octane and 30 to 1 penzoil for break-in. My first take off with the new DLE 35 engine was in half the distance of the PTE engine.
I was surprised it got off so fast.

I installed the fuel tank that came with the kit. It is way too much fuel. DLE recommends running the engine for 2 hours at 4000 rpm for break-in. I mounted it on my test stand. It started very easily. I set the rpm and let it run. After 2 hours and 5 minutes, it finally burned the 32 oz of fuel. I ran it an additional 16 oz of fuel at 5000rpm. It took an hour to run it out. A 16 oz gas tank would be plenty.

The weather has been crappy and I haven't flown it anymore. I hope to get it back in the air soon. Maybe even get a speed reading.

James
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:54 AM
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James:
Sounds great so far, what about the 18 X 10 prop initially set out to use? Or is this just for break - in?

So you're saying the engine is plenty heavy enough to offset tail weight (2 servos, maybe a more scale tail wheel that's retractable)?

And a 16 oz Dubro should be substituted - set as far forward as allowable, OK.

Your weather maybe crappy now but at least you don't have to suffer the dry, arrid climate 90% year round - gets old fast. Many people are running their AC for past week, including me. I'd love to see more seasonal changes. One of these days I'm moving outta here!

John


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Old 01-28-2013, 10:37 AM
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John,
I just returned from flying. For the first time, I managed to get in 4 full flights. Would have been more but i bent the stock landing gear strut and will have to remove it to straighten it.
I bounced just a little on my last landing. Didn't bend it very much. Just enough till it was rubbing the wheel well.

I'm using the 19X8 because it is all I have right now. The 18X10 would probably do better.


If you use the 16oz tank, check your CG. You could probably mount your batteries in the fuel compartment to help with the nose weight.
James
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS


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ORIGINAL: rcpilot32

John,
I just returned from flying. For the first time, I managed to get in 4 full flights. Would have been more but i bent the stock landing gear strut and will have to remove it to straighten it.
I bounced just a little on my last landing. Didn't bend it very much. Just enough till it was rubbing the wheel well.

I'm using the 19X8 because it is all I have right now. The 18X10 would probably do better.


If you use the 16oz tank, check your CG. You could probably mount your batteries in the fuel compartment to help with the nose weight.
James
From what I gather, told previously, this is the ideal prop for this engine. Sounds like you're finally getting the bugs out for more stick time.

I plan on starting with stock landing gear, I have the yellow Rockwell 'generation' 3 TWM plane. The struts look quite robust although they are made from wire - looks close to 1/4". As long as the gear doesn't rip out from L.G. blocks like earlier versions, I think they should hold for a while. I fly from a grass runway but I've learned from previous wire gear retracts that landings require nothing less than a perfect slide in. Oh well, thanks for the quick reply.

John

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:49 AM
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Hi
Juststarted to build the P51 GS and have struck a problem.
I have the A100s1 which has silver covering and the edges are not well sealed and were delaminating.
I tried to reseal the edges on one flap but the shrink film seems to like a very cool iron and pulled away rapidly such that I now need to recover the flap.

Anyone have some advice on reattaching the edges that are not properly attached
Also does anyone know what type of cover material to use, i have a roll of oracover profilm silver which seems to be the same colour but I am worries that if it needs a hotter iron to attach the original material will delaminate underneath on the overlap resulting in a real problem

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Old 08-29-2013, 03:39 AM
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It's been awhile since I've looked at this thread but I got your notice in my email. I'm sure a couple of the other guys will give you answers that will help soon. Anyway, here's mine:

If you look back at my post #36, it has contact name and number for Airborne Models. The guy that runs the place answers the phone too, you'll be talking with the head honcho. If he doesn't send you plenty of covering for a fix, I'd then recommend you buy some Blenderm. We use it all the time to seal hinge joints on club 40 racers.

John
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:13 AM
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use the film type balsarite glue..use sparingly wait for it to dry then re iron seams
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:02 AM
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I would just use the Blenderm and be done with it so you can move on.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:45 AM
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I am having the same problem with mine. The gloss over the silver color is delaminating and I have been unsuccessful trying to reattach it using CA.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:43 AM
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Also the only covering that matches the silver on the WM GS P-51 is their Toughlon. Not my first choice in covering but, I don't want to completely remove the existing covering and start over.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:44 AM
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I need to order some of the silver as I want to cut open the wings and check how the landing gear boxes are installed and reinforce them if necessary.
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Old 08-30-2013, 05:36 AM
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The WM giant "scale" P-51 is a stand off - way stand off model. I began over looking concerns with minor aesthetics as soon as I made a temporary set up - upon removing the parts from the box. On the other hand, it is a great and docile flying machine of which WM has worked out most of the bugs plagued in earlier production models. I have the Rockwell (yellow) version and mine came without wing fillets. last time I looked at the advertised Rockwell, they now include them. The point is, like Barry said you could just put Blenderm on and get flyin'. My plane is FAST and up in the air it really books, no one knows the pilot head is missing even in a low speeding pass.

Barry, I wouldn't even worry about an exact match as I can see recovering the beast after a couple seasons - unless something unforeseen happens. AS for the L.G. blocks, they are perfectly solid. The most common problem I / most others with this plane have (even at spec. 15 lbs.) is with the supplied struts. The mounting blocks in wing, mechanical retract system are able to withstand a good 18 - 20 lb. plane. I have pictures I took as I had my doubts also. The wire struts are pretty weak and will require flaps and good straight landings. I fly off a grassy field and haven't had to fix them yet. I think the design idea was to keep off weight, as well as cost. I personally would NOT invest on anything more expensive for this plane. At that point, I'd move up to a TF giant scale P-51, for now I'm having BIG fun with this economy model.

John

BTW, I gave into a used Moki 210 at LHS for less than half price of new DLE 35. The power is frightening! I guess this disqualifies any RCPRO racing days. And that's why I say I may need to recover soon.

Last edited by cjbotox; 08-30-2013 at 06:28 AM. Reason: needed clarification
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:21 AM
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John, that Moki 2.10 is a bear. Do you have a tuned pipe on it? If not that will really turn it up. Remember that around 110 mph is about the max on that air frame unless you do some reinforcing on the Wings and horiz. stab.

I think you are correct on the covering and will use what ever is in the mylar covering bin that is close for now. When I get it all sorted out then it may be time to recover it. I am going to start out with the retracts that came with it. I am considering putting a set of Robart shock struts on it and then I will have to see how they fit the wing cutouts.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:01 AM
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No tuned pipe Barry nor will I need it. I'm afraid of the power it has in it's own. In keeping with Jim's build ?? or somewhere else I read I REALLY epoxied the heck out of the stab and fin. But the pull of the Moki is so great I will not ever depend on holding down the plane just by its tail (its been known to produce around 25lbs. thrust at this RPM). I plan on getting a Garmin on board to check its speed - someday. Right now its just down right impressive for such a large plane to zoom to a spec in mere moments. RPM = 8300 with Xoar 18 X 10 on 5% at near sea level. P-51 total weight 16 lb 6 oz with on board glow driver (I love this plane!!)

Didn't think wings needed reinforcement. The day I rip em off I'll go back to the drawing board.

John
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:10 AM
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John, it sounds like a winner and you are really enjoying it.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:24 AM
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Default attachments WM P-51

I found the pics of L.G. and parts.
Aha! The first pic shows loose dowels - I did have to reinforce them as they just slid out. Fixed with epoxy
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:05 AM
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I looks like I will need to take the covering off both sides of the wing to do a complete inspection and reinforcement.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:36 AM
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You could... but the top above the L.G. blocks in my wing are sheeted and so should yours be. Sounds like a lot of trouble, Barry for a model of this caliber - unless you expect your plane to weigh in excess of 18 lbs. But still, looking at the depth of plywood as shown in the pictures, there's real proof of integrity. Like I said, it's just the included struts that are flimsy. I still got mine (only 6 flights since finishing last week) and I was pleasantly surprised to report no damage / repairs / or even straightening yet. There are several you tube vids of this plane with the stock gear holding up just fine. Check out the one by mugenkid, that should impress you.

John
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:58 AM
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Try this link, it's same WM gs P-51 with Moki 210 and STOCK STRUTS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAXLg6qfRUg
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