TWM 'Stang with YS .91
08-03-2012, 10:40 AM
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TWM 'Stang with YS .91
Guys, I sorta got side-tracked on My warbird. Now I have a TWM P-51 .46 military model. I know this is the most popular racer with a YS. Here's the question.
I need a general idea where all the parts go....The engine is way heavy, and I know I need to move the battery and servos. I would just like an idea of how much and where so that I can get a good cg.I am just trying to bypass all the experimental stuff and just get to the meat of the build. I will no doubt 'glass the center of the wing as well as 'glass/epoxy the firewall and sheet the tail.
Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated. TJ
I need a general idea where all the parts go....The engine is way heavy, and I know I need to move the battery and servos. I would just like an idea of how much and where so that I can get a good cg.I am just trying to bypass all the experimental stuff and just get to the meat of the build. I will no doubt 'glass the center of the wing as well as 'glass/epoxy the firewall and sheet the tail.
Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated. TJ
08-03-2012, 11:51 AM
#2
RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
Monkygutz,
For the most part, I've found that mounting the battery and servos in the "normal", standard configuration has worked out well for getting me "in the ball park" regarding balancing . . . even with my modifications. Slightly nose heavy is not a bad thing with these warbirds.
But to be more specific and do my best to answer your question, I usually end up adding a little extra weight due to custom painting and beefing up the stab, so any extra wight in the nose gained by the heavier YS 4-strokes has been offset by a little extra weight as previously detailed. For what it is worth, my recommendation is to take advantage of the pressurized fuel system by mounting the fuel tank on the CG. This will require moving some things around a little. I put a mini-servo in front of the tank (or near the front of the tank, but off to the same side as the throttle arm on the engine) just make sure you can access it to replace or adjust it, as necessary. I place the rudder and elevator servos in a dual servo tray, near the rear of the wing saddle. Then the battery, switch, and receiver go in-between this servo tray and the fuel tank. This configuration has worked well for me in the handful of WM-based P-51s I have built. To see pictures of my latest P-51 installation, follow the link below:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...15/key_/tm.htm
Lower down on page 15 of this thread, post #372, and on the next page post #398, and post #400, has pictures of my latest installation. Hope this helps.
For others (who have built more of these than I) to chime-in, and perhaps offer you even more specific feedback, you may want to give us additional details that can affect balance beyond the modifications you already mentioned, such as:
Is this intended for racing or just general fast sport flying? If racing, which class? (Silver and Gold classes are obviously more taxing on the airframe, and demanding on the modifications you make.)
If you can be even more specific, I'm sure that my collegues and I can offer you very solid advice. The more specific you are, might allow them to offer other recommendations beyond what I have, to shorten your learning curve, and help ensure a more satisfactory level of performance for what your intended purpose may be: such as prop/fuel/spinner recommendations, etc. For racing purposes, I've used an APC 12x12N with my YS 91s, running anywhere from 20% - 45% nitro. The higher nitro levels see many move up to a slightly larger prop.
Best of luck,
Ollie
For the most part, I've found that mounting the battery and servos in the "normal", standard configuration has worked out well for getting me "in the ball park" regarding balancing . . . even with my modifications. Slightly nose heavy is not a bad thing with these warbirds.
But to be more specific and do my best to answer your question, I usually end up adding a little extra weight due to custom painting and beefing up the stab, so any extra wight in the nose gained by the heavier YS 4-strokes has been offset by a little extra weight as previously detailed. For what it is worth, my recommendation is to take advantage of the pressurized fuel system by mounting the fuel tank on the CG. This will require moving some things around a little. I put a mini-servo in front of the tank (or near the front of the tank, but off to the same side as the throttle arm on the engine) just make sure you can access it to replace or adjust it, as necessary. I place the rudder and elevator servos in a dual servo tray, near the rear of the wing saddle. Then the battery, switch, and receiver go in-between this servo tray and the fuel tank. This configuration has worked well for me in the handful of WM-based P-51s I have built. To see pictures of my latest P-51 installation, follow the link below:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_96...15/key_/tm.htm
Lower down on page 15 of this thread, post #372, and on the next page post #398, and post #400, has pictures of my latest installation. Hope this helps.
For others (who have built more of these than I) to chime-in, and perhaps offer you even more specific feedback, you may want to give us additional details that can affect balance beyond the modifications you already mentioned, such as:
Is this intended for racing or just general fast sport flying? If racing, which class? (Silver and Gold classes are obviously more taxing on the airframe, and demanding on the modifications you make.)
If you can be even more specific, I'm sure that my collegues and I can offer you very solid advice. The more specific you are, might allow them to offer other recommendations beyond what I have, to shorten your learning curve, and help ensure a more satisfactory level of performance for what your intended purpose may be: such as prop/fuel/spinner recommendations, etc. For racing purposes, I've used an APC 12x12N with my YS 91s, running anywhere from 20% - 45% nitro. The higher nitro levels see many move up to a slightly larger prop.
Best of luck,
Ollie
08-03-2012, 03:15 PM
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RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
Iron Dog, thanks for the quick reply. We have no real racing venue so it is just a couple of the fellas getting it on in the air as fast as we dare. I guess that is fast general flying. I like the idea of a fast warbird even though I am not a good pylon pilot.
Mine is a TWM .46 Military (will cover later as Miss America) 'Stang with a YS .91 FZ, running CP pro pattern 20%, Hangar 9 aluminum motor mounts,Futaba 3004 servos, fat 128 Futaba rx, and thinking APC 12x12 prop. I can change nearly anything You suggest to make it faster and a better flyer. (I have a YS .63 FZ ready to rock if need be)
Our field is 300' long by 80' wide. Not the smoothest,but not to shabby for a field barely a year old. We have plenty of space to hotdog. I will use a slower prop at first to slow it down as the wheels are small and though the field is ok, it is far from tarmac smooth. Once I get it setup I want to go as fast as I can.. Just somethin' 'bout a Stang hauling azz singing a four stroke symphony makes my heart jump Thanks again, TJ
Mine is a TWM .46 Military (will cover later as Miss America) 'Stang with a YS .91 FZ, running CP pro pattern 20%, Hangar 9 aluminum motor mounts,Futaba 3004 servos, fat 128 Futaba rx, and thinking APC 12x12 prop. I can change nearly anything You suggest to make it faster and a better flyer. (I have a YS .63 FZ ready to rock if need be)
Our field is 300' long by 80' wide. Not the smoothest,but not to shabby for a field barely a year old. We have plenty of space to hotdog. I will use a slower prop at first to slow it down as the wheels are small and though the field is ok, it is far from tarmac smooth. Once I get it setup I want to go as fast as I can.. Just somethin' 'bout a Stang hauling azz singing a four stroke symphony makes my heart jump Thanks again, TJ
08-05-2012, 02:48 PM
#4
RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
ORIGINAL: monkeygutz69
Iron Dog, thanks for the quick reply. We have no real racing venue so it is just a couple of the fellas getting it on in the air as fast as we dare. I guess that is fast general flying. I like the idea of a fast warbird even though I am not a good pylon pilot.
Mine is a TWM .46 Military (will cover later as Miss America) 'Stang with a YS .91 FZ, running CP pro pattern 20%, Hangar 9 aluminum motor mounts,Futaba 3004 servos, fat 128 Futaba rx, and thinking APC 12x12 prop. I can change nearly anything You suggest to make it faster and a better flyer. (I have a YS .63 FZ ready to rock if need be)
Our field is 300' long by 80' wide. Not the smoothest,but not to shabby for a field barely a year old. We have plenty of space to hotdog. I will use a slower prop at first to slow it down as the wheels are small and though the field is ok, it is far from tarmac smooth. Once I get it setup I want to go as fast as I can.. Just somethin' 'bout a Stang hauling azz singing a four stroke symphony makes my heart jump Thanks again, TJ
Iron Dog, thanks for the quick reply. We have no real racing venue so it is just a couple of the fellas getting it on in the air as fast as we dare. I guess that is fast general flying. I like the idea of a fast warbird even though I am not a good pylon pilot.
Mine is a TWM .46 Military (will cover later as Miss America) 'Stang with a YS .91 FZ, running CP pro pattern 20%, Hangar 9 aluminum motor mounts,Futaba 3004 servos, fat 128 Futaba rx, and thinking APC 12x12 prop. I can change nearly anything You suggest to make it faster and a better flyer. (I have a YS .63 FZ ready to rock if need be)
Our field is 300' long by 80' wide. Not the smoothest,but not to shabby for a field barely a year old. We have plenty of space to hotdog. I will use a slower prop at first to slow it down as the wheels are small and though the field is ok, it is far from tarmac smooth. Once I get it setup I want to go as fast as I can.. Just somethin' 'bout a Stang hauling azz singing a four stroke symphony makes my heart jump Thanks again, TJ
In my opinion, half of becoming a good pylon pilot is getting comfortable with the speeds you will be running and with the other traffic in the air as you fight for the same airspace going around the pylons. And it sounds like that will be happening soon enough!
Your set-up sounds very good for what you want to do. I highly recommend running dual elevator control rods; and although not critical, if you happen to have a servo that is better than a standard 3004 servo, I'd use it for my elevator servo. (Both suggestions are just for a little extra piece of mind.)As I stated when I edited my post above, I think you'll probably find the best speed using the APC 12x12N with anything from 20 - 35% nitro. (Above that, it may pay to experiment with 12 x13N or 13 x 12N props . . . just watch that your RPMs don't get too high with the 12 x 12N at higher nitro levels, anyway.)
When we discuss spinners, most of my colleagues seem to feel safer with the aluminim spinners. Hangar 9 makes relatively inexpensive aluminum P-51 spinners in various sizes. [You probably know this, but just in case, you'll want an 8 x 1mm Prop Adapter Kit. Hangar 9's is product # HAN99051. (I've had to grind down the socket head bolt, or substitute a shorter length for the spinner to fit tightly, with my YS engines.)]
Have fun! Let me know if I can help you with any other questions. (I can't believe know one else is offering contrary advice. Racers are a pretty opinionated bunch. Usually people have many different opinions. Feel free to chime in, guys!
)Ollie
08-05-2012, 03:33 PM
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RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
Thanks ID. The "Stang has a single servo with the "Y" pushrod for the elevators. Is that what You were referring to?
I'll change the elevator servo to a ds-821.
I looked at My LHS and they don't carry any N type props. That's pattern props? They had one 12x10 and I got it. They don't have much call for hot rod/high pitch props. Where would be a good place to order online if the LHS can't get them?
Right now I am installing an OS .46 FX on it get it in the air. I bought it used a week ago and need to see how she flies plus this will give Me some serious practice landing a fast bird at our field.Like I said before, it's a bit rough and I think it would be better for me to get some stick time with this "Stang on the .46 before I go crazy with the YS.
The YS .91 I have, I've never even fired up. Was kind of intimidated by it as everyone says they are,Hard to start, hard to tune,expensive.. etc. Come to find out, these same people it seems have never even OWNED a YS!!!!! That's why I started this. I will have it running this week hopefully. As soon as I get her trimmed and tweaked, I'll get the .91 in her and let 'er rip. Thanks for the help. That's what is so kool about this hobby, Guys helping out and getting it done. Best Regards, TJ
I'll change the elevator servo to a ds-821.
I looked at My LHS and they don't carry any N type props. That's pattern props? They had one 12x10 and I got it. They don't have much call for hot rod/high pitch props. Where would be a good place to order online if the LHS can't get them?
Right now I am installing an OS .46 FX on it get it in the air. I bought it used a week ago and need to see how she flies plus this will give Me some serious practice landing a fast bird at our field.Like I said before, it's a bit rough and I think it would be better for me to get some stick time with this "Stang on the .46 before I go crazy with the YS.
The YS .91 I have, I've never even fired up. Was kind of intimidated by it as everyone says they are,Hard to start, hard to tune,expensive.. etc. Come to find out, these same people it seems have never even OWNED a YS!!!!! That's why I started this. I will have it running this week hopefully. As soon as I get her trimmed and tweaked, I'll get the .91 in her and let 'er rip. Thanks for the help. That's what is so kool about this hobby, Guys helping out and getting it done. Best Regards, TJ
08-05-2012, 09:39 PM
#6
RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
ORIGINAL: monkeygutz69
Thanks ID. The "Stang has a single servo with the "Y" pushrod for the elevators. Is that what You were referring to? Yes, perfect.
I'll change the elevator servo to a ds-821. With the extra torque, this servo should serve you well. I've used them pretty regularly for elevator servos in my .91 and 1.10FZ applications, and they haven't let me down, yet.
I looked at My LHS and they don't carry any N type props. That's pattern props? Yes, and the "N" is for "narrow." I've heard some racers argue that the narrow version is shaped better for the racing application.They had one 12x10 and I got it. They don't have much call for hot rod/high pitch props. I've run a 12 x 10 on one of my 1/10th scale P-47s equipped with a 91FZ, and it really scooted. It should serve you well, too.
Where would be a good place to order online if the LHS can't get them? APC is made in my vicinity and my local hobby shop always carries a big supply of APC, so I've never had to worry about ordering them. Can't offer as much, here. Sorry. I have heard that some of the racers from my area used to go directly to the factory to pick some up when out of stock at the LHS. I'd call APC directly. Even if you can't order directly, they should be able to list a good retailer for you. I have seen APC sold through both Central Hobbies and Chief Aircraft (RC), but am not sure that I recall them carrying the 12 x 12N.
Right now I am installing an OS .46 FX on it get it in the air. I bought it used a week ago and need to see how she flies plus this will give Me some serious practice landing a fast bird at our field.Like I said before, it's a bit rough and I think it would be better for me to get some stick time with this "Stang on the .46 before I go crazy with the YS. (Keep in mind the effect on CG as you switch between the two.)
The YS .91 I have, I've never even fired up. Was kind of intimidated by it as everyone says they are,Hard to start, hard to tune,expensive.. etc. Come to find out, these same people it seems have never even OWNED a YS!!!!! That's why I started this. I will have it running this week hopefully. As soon as I get her trimmed and tweaked, I'll get the .91 in her and let 'er rip. In my opinion, YS engines are some of the most reliable engines out there. The only time I see people with serious issues is when they over-tweak the needles trying to get every last bit of possible power, and run it too lean at some point. If you keep it slightly rich, it'll take good care of you. I've had four YS 53FZs, one 63FZ, one 63S, two 91ACs, two 91FZs, three 110FZs, two 110Ss, and now a 115. The 115 has not been run, and the only engine that I couldn't get running reliably was the 63S . . . and as anyone else involved in SAM's racing will tell you, I am NOT an engine guy.
Thanks for the help. That's what is so kool about this hobby, Guys helping out and getting it done. I agree . . . I've had a lot of help over the years, too. Best Regards, TJ My pleasure, TJ
Thanks ID. The "Stang has a single servo with the "Y" pushrod for the elevators. Is that what You were referring to? Yes, perfect.
I'll change the elevator servo to a ds-821. With the extra torque, this servo should serve you well. I've used them pretty regularly for elevator servos in my .91 and 1.10FZ applications, and they haven't let me down, yet.
I looked at My LHS and they don't carry any N type props. That's pattern props? Yes, and the "N" is for "narrow." I've heard some racers argue that the narrow version is shaped better for the racing application.They had one 12x10 and I got it. They don't have much call for hot rod/high pitch props. I've run a 12 x 10 on one of my 1/10th scale P-47s equipped with a 91FZ, and it really scooted. It should serve you well, too.
Where would be a good place to order online if the LHS can't get them? APC is made in my vicinity and my local hobby shop always carries a big supply of APC, so I've never had to worry about ordering them. Can't offer as much, here. Sorry. I have heard that some of the racers from my area used to go directly to the factory to pick some up when out of stock at the LHS. I'd call APC directly. Even if you can't order directly, they should be able to list a good retailer for you. I have seen APC sold through both Central Hobbies and Chief Aircraft (RC), but am not sure that I recall them carrying the 12 x 12N.
Right now I am installing an OS .46 FX on it get it in the air. I bought it used a week ago and need to see how she flies plus this will give Me some serious practice landing a fast bird at our field.Like I said before, it's a bit rough and I think it would be better for me to get some stick time with this "Stang on the .46 before I go crazy with the YS. (Keep in mind the effect on CG as you switch between the two.)
The YS .91 I have, I've never even fired up. Was kind of intimidated by it as everyone says they are,Hard to start, hard to tune,expensive.. etc. Come to find out, these same people it seems have never even OWNED a YS!!!!! That's why I started this. I will have it running this week hopefully. As soon as I get her trimmed and tweaked, I'll get the .91 in her and let 'er rip. In my opinion, YS engines are some of the most reliable engines out there. The only time I see people with serious issues is when they over-tweak the needles trying to get every last bit of possible power, and run it too lean at some point. If you keep it slightly rich, it'll take good care of you. I've had four YS 53FZs, one 63FZ, one 63S, two 91ACs, two 91FZs, three 110FZs, two 110Ss, and now a 115. The 115 has not been run, and the only engine that I couldn't get running reliably was the 63S . . . and as anyone else involved in SAM's racing will tell you, I am NOT an engine guy.
Thanks for the help. That's what is so kool about this hobby, Guys helping out and getting it done. I agree . . . I've had a lot of help over the years, too. Best Regards, TJ My pleasure, TJ
08-24-2012, 09:41 AM
#8
My Feedback: (43)
RE: TWM 'Stang with YS .91
Not a racer, but the YS 91AC was the easiest running and most reliable glow engine that I ever ran. 99% of the time, it started on the first bacl flip after priming. Adjust the valves once a year, run good quality fuel and an OS F or YS plug and enjoy!
