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  1. #26
    Jimmy Skids's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    The current rules version can be found by going to the SAM website www.sacramento-rc-flyers.org then navagate to the events section, then scroll to the bottom of the page. The current version will probably have some minor changes done at the December event planning meeting. Currently most are not willing to look at changing the wing area, but lets keep the conversations positive in the interest of building a valid case and once that is done I would be more than happy to present the opinions to the board. With that said, I really do not think we would see a change if there was only a one or two pilot commitment. So far everyone has had some very valid and interesting points. Carry on.....

    Jimmy Skids


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  2. #27

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    I will look at them again tonight. I guess my main argument is that the power of the YS 110-120 engines are = to or stronger than the OS 120 AX with a Jett muffler. The 120 AX is the lightest and strongest on any 120 2 cycle that i know of. I have two Jett 120's and the OS out performs it. So with that said the 120AX must have atleast 95 sq more wing area. I havent seen much data on the YS70 yet though and i would like to get one to test out on a 4-5 lb plane and 400 sq. I wil use a 8 or 9x14 prop
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  3. #28
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Why not create a DLE 20 class?
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


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  4. #29

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    that would fall under the 120 two cycle engine class if the change it up.
    AMA # 126183
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  5. #30
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    Why not create a DLE 20 class?

    Because it will be slow, slow, slow........................

    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  6. #31
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Dave and Jimmy. My plan at this point is to do al all composite Macchi with either 110 or 115 power. Am I right in thinking that the 110 creates less vibration?
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  7. #32
    PLANEBENDER's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    A little but less power as well.
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  8. #33
    Jimmy Skids's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Speed,
    Here is the break down on the 1.10 and 1.15

    YS 1.10 FZ - Shake
    YS 1.10S - SHAKE
    YS1.15S - SHAKES

    That is about as best as I can describe it. They all shake and they are definitely different than what you are used to. But then again so is the power.


    Airraptor,
    I flew a 1.10s on a wing that had 35 square inches more than required for many seasons and did just fine. More wing area can have an effect in lowering wing loading if built correct which can enable a faster/better flying aircraft. Not always the case, but can happen. Many have flown the WM Mustang in Gold with the stock 580 wing and a 1.10 or 1.15 and done just fine with the excess 65 squares.

    Also, I competed with the .70 on a 500 plus wing area plane this past week end and had a great time in silver running a 12x8 APC prop on .25% nitro. The motor was running happily rich at 11,000 RPM and broke out at the 2:00 minute time and also would of broke out at the current Silver time of 1:55. Nice thing about the 12x8 prop.... they are $3.00..... that is much better than the 14x13's I run in the Gold class.

    Skids
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  9. #34
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids

    Speed,
    Here is the break down on the 1.10 and 1.15

    YS 1.10 FZ - Shake
    YS 1.10S - SHAKE
    YS1.15S - SHAKES

    That is about as best as I can describe it. They all shake and they are definitely different than what you are used to. But then again so is the power.




    Skids
    Well that depends on how you look at it. IMO HP per cubic inch, my Rossi has the YS beat LOL. As far as the engine goes, I will just see what I am able to find. May just get one ASAP and install it in the current airplane to get through the learing curve. I'm a couple months from making molds and it will take a few airframes to get the layup right.

    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  10. #35
    Jimmy Skids's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Speed,
    All kidding aside. If you need a motor to use in development or testing let me know. I can lend you one of my old ones. I believe a have both a 1.10fz and 1.10s that you could do some testing with. Only one requirement.... Cool power fuel only.... but I can lend you some of that as well.
    Skids
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  11. #36

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Hi Speed,

    Same here. If you need one to play with, welcome to one of mine. Have 110S and FZ. No 115

    I have some Curtis Youngblood all Synthetic 30% nitro, 23% oil you can use for testing as well.

    - Joe DeLateur
    Joe DeLateur
    Interested in racing in Western US? Go to www.rcpylonracing.com

  12. #37
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Thanks a bunch guys! I will no doubt take one of you up on the offer. I should say it more often but if you two or anyone really needs help with some foam cutting or any composites work, just let me know. This is why we love the racing so much, its the people in the sport.
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  13. #38

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    I need some of those carbon gear like in the Laser. Those things are the best carbon gear I have every seen. very strong, light and have a airfoil shape to reduce drag. That size may work perfectly on my lanier Dominator 1500
    AMA # 126183
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  14. #39
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Jeff. I actually did not make those. With the offshore stuff being so inexpensive right now I usually check to see if I can find somthing that fits my needs before tooling up. I'm incuding a link to the outfit that I got them from on Ebay but if anyone needs a carbon gear of specific size I can fab them up rather easily. It just wont have a nice airfoil shape. That would require hard tooling and it just dosent make sense to produce tooling for one or two gears.


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-fiber...item337cf08aab
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  15. #40

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Not that anybody cares but here is my take on the races. I am a complete newb to the pylon racing scene and knew nothing about it at the start of the year, and not much more now. The sams guys have a great thing going. The races I have been to have been great events, lots of pilots and spectators, very little if any drama/whining. Seems to me there is a class for everyone, especially if they allow the t-34 in bronze. If money is the issue run bronze, you could probably get the guys out there to donate enough parts to put a bronze plane together. A silver plane is going to be a little more expensive, but you can easily break out in silver with a stock w/m mustang stock ys and 30% fuel. Seems to me this is the most competitive and toughest class to win anyway. Silver always has the most pilots, and the planes dont have to be pushed past thier limits so they usually finish the race. Gold is obviously more money to run, but you dont have to play with the big dogs. Hell I would love to go race in reno next year, but I'm lacking in a couple areas so I race models. Pick the class that best fits your experiance /wallet and go have fun.
    I dont think any pilots that want to race are sitting home because of the way the rules are now. If they were racers they would find a way to compete. I agree with skids on the investment in the air, I dont want my gold plane up there with some yahoo that has $200 worth of crap in the air and no skin in the game. Have to agree with Dave on the nitro, start checking fuel and I'm out too. It would be nice to keep them looking like real airplanes, but people are always going to bend the rules till they break. An unlimited class would be sweet, but hey we cant have everything. Unlimited racing is within driving distance.
    I want to thank all of the C/Ds for putting the events together, and all of the workers that make it possible. Also thanks to big Joe for the great announcing, wouldnt be the same without you. And dont forget the Redding boys, They put on one hell of a nice event at a great field. Still wondering how they have so much pull with the weather, no way they can pull that off again!

    P.S. What did Richard ever do to anybody? J/k

  16. #41

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    To me its not about the money. It is how the rules are biased to the YS engine. Thats all. I will race next year and if the rules dont change then I will race with a YS-115. I run 45% in all my Saito engines for normal flying anyway so that isnt a issue either. I dont understand the rule with a engine must idle but I do know the real story behind it. My OS 120 AX with my setup is 320 dollars total so not that far off a 115. So again its not money for me. I will run the Gold and Bronze with my T-34.

    On the T-34 in the bronze is the only limiting factor is the 2:00 break out time? is this on a two pylon 700 foot course?
    AMA # 126183
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  17. #42
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Jeff, bronze break out is 2:25. From what I saw your current T-34 would be very close to that. It is a 700' course flown 10 laps.

    1Beege, You have some good points. I agree that if a racer want's to race, he will. My reasons for really not wanting to run a YS may be a bit unique. I don't have a great deal of time to spend fiddling with an engine. The YS is more maintenance then the Rossi 2 strokes I currently use. I absolutly HATE using a starter. I went about 20 years flying sailplanes and IMAC where there was no starter needed and I have seen a fair share of starter accidents. Then again same can be said about bump starting a 2 stroke. The most important aspect is subjecting my caller/wife to the vibration, eye stinging nitro and having to hold the beast during a run up. I hate to see what her reaction will be when and if I throw a prop during start up. Not the most manly reasons I agree but in the end we are talking model airplanes in relation to my best friend.

    The other aspect is that I do still enjoy the occasional pattern and IMAC contest so I have those airplanes to maintain as well. One reason I scratch build all my airplanes. Usually a complete airframe runs me about 125.00 to put together. The Rossi .61 on my unlimited airplane cost me all of 86.00 on Ebay, the pipe was another 5.00 at a club flea market. A far cry from the 450.00 that a YS costs. If I could just control this personality that drives me to compete at the highest level, I would be perfectly happy flying silver for the next 20 years NOT!! LOL
    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  18. #43
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Geez guys, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Less gabbing, more building! If flappin jaws were a class you would all be in GOLD!
    \"You Can Teach...Monkeys To Fly Better Than That!\"

  19. #44
    speedracerntrixie's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: pjakew

    Geez guys, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Less gabbing, more building! If flappin jaws were a class you would all be in GOLD!


    I'm sorry but who couldn't stop running at the mouth on camera? LOL Yes Jake we know your need for building, the season starts in 6 months. Will you have something ready in time?



    Of course it's true, I read it on the Internet.

  20. #45
    Jimmy Skids's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: pjakew

    Geez guys, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Less gabbing, more building! If flappin jaws were a class you would all be in GOLD!
    Now, Now Jake, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black - in fact I would add that the pot is calling the kettle collect.



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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Speed, I myself love to do things different than the latest trend would suggest, but usually ends up costing more money and time in the end. As a beginner I thought it would be best to do as the people helping me suggested. As I learn more I will probably find something to change and shoot myself in the foot with. I do share your thoughts on the prop issue, I think making sure you use a prop washer big enough to cover the entire hub will help, but still a concern for sure. I have seen the more common smaller washers get put on so tight they start to compromise the prop hub. Cant help you with the eyes burning, that is my favorite part! Also, get the ys from central and save yourself $50. Just bite the bullet put in the ys and go give the gold racers hell! And then convince all the other professinal silver racers to go with you

  22. #47
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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Oh don't worry, the facilities here at the Peenemunde West R&D department are working on some unique projects. It will be a long winter.
    \"You Can Teach...Monkeys To Fly Better Than That!\"

  23. #48
    Iron Dog's Avatar
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: 1beege

    Not that anybody cares but here is my take on the races. I am a complete newb to the pylon racing scene and knew nothing about it at the start of the year, and not much more now. The sams guys have a great thing going. The races I have been to have been great events, lots of pilots and spectators, very little if any drama/whining. Seems to me there is a class for everyone, especially if they allow the t-34 in bronze. If money is the issue run bronze, you could probably get the guys out there to donate enough parts to put a bronze plane together. A silver plane is going to be a little more expensive, but you can easily break out in silver with a stock w/m mustang stock ys and 30% fuel. Seems to me this is the most competitive and toughest class to win anyway. Silver always has the most pilots, and the planes dont have to be pushed past thier limits so they usually finish the race. Gold is obviously more money to run, but you dont have to play with the big dogs. Hell I would love to go race in reno next year, but I'm lacking in a couple areas so I race models. Pick the class that best fits your experiance /wallet and go have fun.
    I dont think any pilots that want to race are sitting home because of the way the rules are now. If they were racers they would find a way to compete. I agree with skids on the investment in the air, I dont want my gold plane up there with some yahoo that has $200 worth of crap in the air and no skin in the game. Have to agree with Dave on the nitro, start checking fuel and I'm out too. It would be nice to keep them looking like real airplanes, but people are always going to bend the rules till they break. An unlimited class would be sweet, but hey we cant have everything. Unlimited racing is within driving distance.
    I want to thank all of the C/Ds for putting the events together, and all of the workers that make it possible. Also thanks to big Joe for the great announcing, wouldnt be the same without you. And dont forget the Redding boys, They put on one hell of a nice event at a great field. Still wondering how they have so much pull with the weather, no way they can pull that off again!

    P.S. What did Richard ever do to anybody? J/k
    1beege,

    I, for one, do care and am glad to hear you weigh-in. It is the guys that are just becoming interested in this type of competition that will keep these events going strong for a long time to come. Airraptor, likewise I am happy to hear that you plan on joining us this upcoming season; and hope you realize how much we all value your input.

    One of the things that I think makes this particular race format popular is that the majority of the elements were well-balanced to begin with. We've all seen technology change over the years, so those elements that begin to stray too far out of balance get reviewed and adjusted, due to input such as yours; and will continue to be adjusted, as necessary. At the same time, a relative consistency in those rules has also been necessary because all too many of us can't afford to continually replace ALL our equipment.

    Therfore, it could also be argued that there is a certain level of fairness maintained by knowing that once you have made the investment in whatever the current standard, that the rules are not going to suddenly change on you,suddenly invalidatingyour investment in engines, airframes, etc.
    As an example, I for one never owned a YS until I became interested in racing. Now I own 14 of them in every displacment and mutation they've offered over the last 15 years. It seems every time I finally bite the financial bullet and invest in the latest and greatest engine, they suddenly come up with an improved model that makes my relatively new acquisition(s) just a little less impressive. If that wasn't enough, I've also spent years trying to design my own airframes in attempts to better optimize the performance envelope within a given Wing Area/Engine chart, only to have that investment of time largely invalidated by our last revision to better put 2-strokes on a more even playing field. With such substantial investments of time and money, it can get discouraging, but this is "in my blood" and as 1beege stated, "Those that are racers will find a way to compete." I think that is part of the challenge that helps to make this sport so rewarding . . . that season when you finally 'get it right.' On that note, in my opinion the big bright side was that the latest chart was much more comprehensive and seemed less written for particular displacments of engines - short of putting the OS 2-strokes on a more even footing with the YS engines for the Bay Area guys to be able to compete effectively in Silver with the plane/engine combos they were already running in their races, and at speeds closely approximating those they were used to flying. In my opinion, this also shows SAM's willingness to respond to this type of input in order to be as fair as reasonably possible, while maintaining the intent of the event.
    As I have just redesigned some of my planes, and am working on new plugs and wing designs to better fit the latest revisions, I personally can't help but hope it stays consistent for awhile.

    So don't worry Jake . . . I start building this month! I can't wait to see which which "secret weapon" better gets it right! (Of course, referencing the German Peenemunde facility while having a Me 209 build thread indicates a lapse in your security protocols. It's not much of a secret.

    Ollie

    WARNING: High-nitro fumes cause an unusual form of mental debilitation resulting in excess expenditures on racing airplanes.

  24. #49
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    RE: Sams warbird racing


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    To me its not about the money. It is how the rules are biased to the YS engine. Thats all. I will race next year and if the rules dont change then I will race with a YS-115. I run 45% in all my Saito engines for normal flying anyway so that isnt a issue either. I dont understand the rule with a engine must idle but I do know the real story behind it. My OS 120 AX with my setup is 320 dollars total so not that far off a 115. So again its not money for me. I will run the Gold and Bronze with my T-34.

    On the T-34 in the bronze is the only limiting factor is the 2:00 break out time? is this on a two pylon 700 foot course?
    Just an FYI, The T-34s will only be allowed to race in Bronze.

    Planebender
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  25. #50

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    RE: Sams warbird racing

    Plane I know the 34's only in bronze but a engine limit? maybe run a 4S to sound a bit better?

    I do know the Stock WMT-34 with a OS 46AX with a 10x7 prop is right at 95 with telemetry on board. With in highly modded 53 engine turning a 10x7 at 17,000 only hit 116-118 straight and level.
    AMA # 126183
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