Warbird racing.........glow or gas?
12-15-2014, 06:03 PM
#1
Warbird racing.........glow or gas?
Being that this topic came up with Marty's announcement of plans to have a warbird championship event I thought we should have a separate thread to discuss if it would be viable to race electric powered warbirds along with glow or should they have a separate class. It is my hope that this thread can be used as an educational tool and idea share so that we all have a better understanding of everyone's veiwpoint. So fire away but please let's be respectful, we all want the sport to be successful. Sorry guys I screwed up the title, don't know why I was thinking gas? Obviously it should be electric. Perhaps a moderator can change the title to glow or electric.
Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 12-15-2014 at 06:27 PM.
12-16-2014, 03:10 PM
#4
The current E set up is not commercially produced as they use it. Yes you can buy the parts and pieces, but getting them to work together properly might not be the safest for a newbie.
It could become dangerous to trust any yahoo with the set up the rcpro E guys use. I watched Tony turn his hand black in Hesperia I believe it was. I saw a 15 minute smoke cloud in Phx this year where one went in. Just looking at the charging tables would make most club presidents a bit nervous.
Andy and the guys have it pretty well figured out. Some new guy might create issues for the host club or people pitting next to him.
Plus regulating these with dishonest people would be a challenge. Especially when the 3 different classes would require 3 different set ups and limit what can be done, as far as btty, esc, motors. How would we know if someone upped the bttys ? They are putting in and taking out bttys every flight?
I just dont see the way this can work other than in an all E class for now.
I dont think using the current rcpro rules are right. There needs to be a wing area and eng limit chart to keep planes scale, otherwise we will end up with funky wings.
There are always guys out there trying to purposely hide in the shadows of the rules to see if they can make something work that is contraversial, rather than just come out and race.
It could become dangerous to trust any yahoo with the set up the rcpro E guys use. I watched Tony turn his hand black in Hesperia I believe it was. I saw a 15 minute smoke cloud in Phx this year where one went in. Just looking at the charging tables would make most club presidents a bit nervous.
Andy and the guys have it pretty well figured out. Some new guy might create issues for the host club or people pitting next to him.
Plus regulating these with dishonest people would be a challenge. Especially when the 3 different classes would require 3 different set ups and limit what can be done, as far as btty, esc, motors. How would we know if someone upped the bttys ? They are putting in and taking out bttys every flight?
I just dont see the way this can work other than in an all E class for now.
I dont think using the current rcpro rules are right. There needs to be a wing area and eng limit chart to keep planes scale, otherwise we will end up with funky wings.
There are always guys out there trying to purposely hide in the shadows of the rules to see if they can make something work that is contraversial, rather than just come out and race.
12-16-2014, 08:59 PM
#5
I'd say that electric power is no more difficult to use (for a newbie) than trying to operate a high performance nitro engine. If you get help and advice and follow established procedures, success isn't that difficult to obtain.
Yes, I've vaporized battery connectors by plugging them in wrong. It hurt far less than getting a finger caught in a prop
Yes, LiPos can catch fire, especially in a crash. On the other hand, 1 cell burns as hot as 10 cells. Theoretically, a sport plane could cause a fire just as easily.
Our charging table(s) look crazy only because there are 5 or 6 of us, some with multiple entries, and we gang up all of our chargers and power supplies. One individual using 1 or 2 chargers in support of 1 aircraft wouldn't look too scary.
Some of the guys have come up with Silver and Bronze setups that are pretty tame and fly well. Some of the Gold entries are edgy (mine's probably the worst, just because it's the smallest), but that's to be expected when pushing the envelope.
As for trying to regulate performance with wing area, that's a difficult if not impossible task just for the nitro motors. With so many variables (prop, fuel, engine mods, engine configuration), I would go so far as to say that even the existing table doesn't assure parity. Even if it were possible to fairly incorporate electrics into a wing area table, the table would quickly be rendered obsolete because the electric technology is advancing at such a rapid rate.
The wing area and engine limit chart don't keep planes scale and have nothing to do with wing shape, funky or otherwise. Other rules are used to address those issues. I don't believe that a wing area chart levels the playing field or regulates speed. Some will say that the class breakouts aren't any more effective, but at least they provide somewhat of a negative incentive for going "too fast". Wing area table or not, the breakouts don't reward speed beyond a certain point. Racers are breaking out out of all classes in all events, regardless of whether or not a wing area table is used. My main points are that (A) the wing area table doesn't assure fairness (B) the wing area table doesn't assure scale outline and (C) wing area table or not, racers are still able to break out of all classes.
12-16-2014, 09:27 PM
#6
Being that I am unfamiliar with the E race setups as it applies to warbirds let me share what I got from your post Tony. First off fire concerns, yes a sport airplane will start a fire just the same as a sport airplane. Yes and no, a sport airplane for the most part is not as high risk as a race airplane. The odds of a crash are much greater with a race airplane. Second, when one goes in it hits harder so the odds that a battery puncture is greater. Now the worse news, granted Imhave not seen your charging table however from what I have seen, experienced and read most battery fires happen while being charged. I 100% agree that the wing area charts have very little to do with keeping speed in check. What I feel,it does is keep wing loading in check. Reading between the lines in your post I'm thinking that you are at the high side of wing loading and that does affect getting off the ground in a safe manner to a degree. Please don't take this as me being anti electric. I really am not. I just feel that the technology is not quite there as of right now. Granted that with glow some guys are jacking up the nitro but that is risky as well as Imfound out in the last Triangle series race when I ran 55% and threw a prop blade. The one thing that we really have not brought up yet is starting order. If I was the race starter I would be compelled to get the E guys off the ground first knowing that all you have to do is arm and you are flight ready. Obviously you guys are going to have issues draining batteries while the glow guys start up and tune. How are you currently dealing with this?
12-16-2014, 09:57 PM
#7
Speed,
None of our few fires have occurred on the charging table. We're pretty careful, and I keep a fire extinguisher handy.
As for battery capacity issues, it has been a challenge. We try to launch near the end of the countdown clock (normally after the nitro guys have launched), and try to land as soon as possible. Sometimes we're allowed to land by order of finish (in which case, we usually get to land first or second, haha), and sometimes we have to land by order of lane number. Some of the guys have lost batteries by running them down too low. My setups land with anywhere from 20-40% of capacity left, and we don't like to go under 20%. If forced to launch first and land last, we'd have issues.
So far the glow guys have been pretty tolerant; as long as we don't delay their launch (which we usually don't), most are willing to stay aloft for an extra lap or two and let us land first. It really hasn't been an issue.
I definitely disagree with regard to the wing area table and wing loading; your table allows larger 4 strokes per given area than 2 strokes, and 4 strokes are inherently heavier than 2 strokes. Your table actually FAVORS higher wing loading, since most of the fast guys are using 4 strokes. Even wing loading isn't an effective equalizer for models; larger areas tolerate higher loadings much more effectively than smaller areas.
Here are the arguments I made years ago regarding the ineffectiveness of the wing area table we were using at the time: we allow far more displacement per unit of wing area than most of the 3 pole events (Q500, Q40, F1, F3D) and yet we allow any prop, fuel, engine configuration, and even engine modiffications. We don't effectively regulate wing thickness or aspect ratio. The mult-engine table is even less restrictive than the singe-engine table. We cannot even pretend to be concerned about speed with regard to the current tables. If we wanted to decrease speed and/or increase safety, we would strictly regulate equipment used, AND we wouldn't allow such high displacement to area ratios. We pretend to be a sport event, yet we're less restrictive than the mainstream racing events. If the table was meant to regulate performance, it certainly hasn't been revised in accordance with the increases in engine performance. 20+ years ago, before supercharged 4 strokes and Jetts/Nelsons, the wing area table kept most entries above the 2-minute mark. Most believed that those speeds were safe. Maybe the table worked back then. At the very least, the table back then worked far better than it does now.
None of our few fires have occurred on the charging table. We're pretty careful, and I keep a fire extinguisher handy.
As for battery capacity issues, it has been a challenge. We try to launch near the end of the countdown clock (normally after the nitro guys have launched), and try to land as soon as possible. Sometimes we're allowed to land by order of finish (in which case, we usually get to land first or second, haha), and sometimes we have to land by order of lane number. Some of the guys have lost batteries by running them down too low. My setups land with anywhere from 20-40% of capacity left, and we don't like to go under 20%. If forced to launch first and land last, we'd have issues.
So far the glow guys have been pretty tolerant; as long as we don't delay their launch (which we usually don't), most are willing to stay aloft for an extra lap or two and let us land first. It really hasn't been an issue.
I definitely disagree with regard to the wing area table and wing loading; your table allows larger 4 strokes per given area than 2 strokes, and 4 strokes are inherently heavier than 2 strokes. Your table actually FAVORS higher wing loading, since most of the fast guys are using 4 strokes. Even wing loading isn't an effective equalizer for models; larger areas tolerate higher loadings much more effectively than smaller areas.
Here are the arguments I made years ago regarding the ineffectiveness of the wing area table we were using at the time: we allow far more displacement per unit of wing area than most of the 3 pole events (Q500, Q40, F1, F3D) and yet we allow any prop, fuel, engine configuration, and even engine modiffications. We don't effectively regulate wing thickness or aspect ratio. The mult-engine table is even less restrictive than the singe-engine table. We cannot even pretend to be concerned about speed with regard to the current tables. If we wanted to decrease speed and/or increase safety, we would strictly regulate equipment used, AND we wouldn't allow such high displacement to area ratios. We pretend to be a sport event, yet we're less restrictive than the mainstream racing events. If the table was meant to regulate performance, it certainly hasn't been revised in accordance with the increases in engine performance. 20+ years ago, before supercharged 4 strokes and Jetts/Nelsons, the wing area table kept most entries above the 2-minute mark. Most believed that those speeds were safe. Maybe the table worked back then. At the very least, the table back then worked far better than it does now.
Last edited by Tony Pacini; 12-16-2014 at 10:01 PM.
12-17-2014, 05:47 AM
#8
I agree that the wing chart is a bit of a catch 22. I however see no other means of regulating speed other then the breakouts. That being said, larger wing are does not mean slower. Yes there is a drag penalty with a bigger wing however an airplane with less wing loading will always turn better. When you have to do 20 turns per race I would and have focused on making an airplane that behaves well in the turns and does not loose as much energy. I feel I'm pretty much maxed out on wing outline to that cause. All other forms of national class racing have wing area limits. To a point we do regulate what engine we use as almost everyone in Gold runs the YS 115. Jett/Nelson have no place in the conversation because the are not legal in SAM's or Triangle series. Are they allowed in RCPRO? I agree that the current table favors 4 strokes. That had been discussed before and I think the table was more on level playing field before the YS 110 and 115 came along. I don't think anyone realized there was ever going to be a 4 stroke that produces the power that these engines do. I once suggested limiting nitro usage and still would support that but it is a can of worms as we would have no way to regulate just as we have no good way to regulate your wattage. Heavier airplanes? not sure I agree with that at least not lately. I have seen a trend to getting airplanes lighter. I know I can easily build a gold airplane under 6.5 lbs. My goal for this years airplanes is 6 lbs even. For this to work I think the race starts have to be on even playing field. Favoritism as far as letting the E guys take off last and land first is not going to be well received across the board. It may work out OK at your club but to be perfectly honest I just don't see it not becoming an issue. Then you overdraw your batteries some guys will toss the battery some will try to " Jump Start " the battery into taking a charge and then the fire hazard increases............Lots of variables to consider and mixing the two is surely not going to be a smooth road.
12-17-2014, 08:48 AM
#11
Speed,
I have read the SAM rules, and nowhere did I see that specific engine brands were excluded. There was no minimum engine displacement requirement, either. Jetts and Nelsons can certainly be equipped with carburetors and made to idle, so I really can't see why those two brands could be excluded, specifically or operationally. Am I missing something here?
I have read the SAM rules, and nowhere did I see that specific engine brands were excluded. There was no minimum engine displacement requirement, either. Jetts and Nelsons can certainly be equipped with carburetors and made to idle, so I really can't see why those two brands could be excluded, specifically or operationally. Am I missing something here?
Last edited by Tony Pacini; 03-08-2018 at 10:53 AM. Reason: corrected spelling
12-17-2014, 08:52 AM
#12
Ok if wing chart and eng size doesnt regulate speed then what if we change the chart to read eng size 20-40 for 2 stroke for a min of a 800 Sq IN wing span. Tell me that doesnt control speeds?
And it does help to control funky wings. W/o a scale rule and wing chart area we could take Q40 long wings and put on anything. Keeping a squares min and scale outline rule helps to keep this correct
I said you can buy commercially, all you guys use, but not like going into a Hobby Store and saying, " I want a YS115, a 16 Oz tank and 30% nitro.
In fact I pretty much disagree with all of you thoughts other than " a finger in a prop VZ burnt hands" I fully agree with that one.
I believe a wreck lipo is more likely to catch fire than a NIMH. Mostly because of the size you guys run. The mass and qtys of bttys you use puts it at a much greater risk than my puny little life btty.
I guess it all depends on which side of the fence you stand on as to how you view your opinion.
And it does help to control funky wings. W/o a scale rule and wing chart area we could take Q40 long wings and put on anything. Keeping a squares min and scale outline rule helps to keep this correct
I said you can buy commercially, all you guys use, but not like going into a Hobby Store and saying, " I want a YS115, a 16 Oz tank and 30% nitro.
In fact I pretty much disagree with all of you thoughts other than " a finger in a prop VZ burnt hands" I fully agree with that one.
I believe a wreck lipo is more likely to catch fire than a NIMH. Mostly because of the size you guys run. The mass and qtys of bttys you use puts it at a much greater risk than my puny little life btty.
I guess it all depends on which side of the fence you stand on as to how you view your opinion.
12-17-2014, 09:00 AM
#14
I welcome jetts, nelsons, rossi with carbs. I am not trying to make the ar. champ race a YS race. Im trying to make it a run what ya brung race with limits and restrictions for safety. If someone wants to spend $400 or more on anything other than a YS (same price) then more power to them. Id rather just spend the $400 and get a YS than mess with the 2 strokes at that price.
So Tony, all these questions would leave one to believe you are either :
1). going to come to a SAMS Race or
2). Stirring the pot?
So Tony, all these questions would leave one to believe you are either :
1). going to come to a SAMS Race or
2). Stirring the pot?
12-17-2014, 09:24 AM
#15
Marty, I was thinking more along the line of what the wing area chart is as of now. Jeff has a complaint a few months ago about the wing area difference between running a 115 as opposed to a 2 stroke 120. The 115 can run 520 sq in wing and I think the 120 2 stroke would bump him up to 585. I was of the opinion that the additional wing really would not make any difference and could be made to have benefit in the turns. My .61 powered Macchi with 500 sq in was capable of 1:35. a smaller wing IMO would have made that airplane slower. The point that I was trying to make to Tony is IMO a 520 sq in electric is self defeating in the turns.
12-17-2014, 09:54 AM
#16
Perhaps I should have said that an effective wing area chart could regulate speed. Small engine on big airframe would almost certainly result in lower speeds. The current tables in question are far too liberal to be effective.
A wing area chart does not control aspect ratio in any way. One could make a long, thin, skinny wing at any area. Only your scale rules will control wing shape, barring any specific rules governing thickness and span. For the record, I'm not against scale wing shapes.
If rulemakers don't want 2 cycles or Jetts or Nelsons, the rules should specifically state so. If someone shows up with a fast 2-stroke that satisfies the idle rule, what's next?
How many hobby shops still carry a large inventory of glow engines, let alone a YS 1.15 Warbird Special? They'd have to order it, just as they could order a Castle ESC or Scorpion heli motor.
If you want a YS-only race, it would be easier to just state that up front than to dance around it with numerous and ineffective rules.
As for your last question, Marty, 1 generally results in 2
Remember, we're only talking about playing with toy airplanes. Keep it fun.
Rest assured, though, that before I'd travel to any such race, I'd have to come to terms with the possibility that the rules might change shortly afterwards. I actually got hassled (at SAMs) for a YS-powered Miss Ashley, just because it wasn't a 'real warbird'. Yes, it had a decent outline, idled properly, and had a steerable tailwheel.....
A wing area chart does not control aspect ratio in any way. One could make a long, thin, skinny wing at any area. Only your scale rules will control wing shape, barring any specific rules governing thickness and span. For the record, I'm not against scale wing shapes.
If rulemakers don't want 2 cycles or Jetts or Nelsons, the rules should specifically state so. If someone shows up with a fast 2-stroke that satisfies the idle rule, what's next?
How many hobby shops still carry a large inventory of glow engines, let alone a YS 1.15 Warbird Special? They'd have to order it, just as they could order a Castle ESC or Scorpion heli motor.
If you want a YS-only race, it would be easier to just state that up front than to dance around it with numerous and ineffective rules.
As for your last question, Marty, 1 generally results in 2
Remember, we're only talking about playing with toy airplanes. Keep it fun.
Rest assured, though, that before I'd travel to any such race, I'd have to come to terms with the possibility that the rules might change shortly afterwards. I actually got hassled (at SAMs) for a YS-powered Miss Ashley, just because it wasn't a 'real warbird'. Yes, it had a decent outline, idled properly, and had a steerable tailwheel.....
Last edited by Tony Pacini; 12-17-2014 at 10:12 AM.
12-17-2014, 10:12 AM
#17
You are totally missing my point because you think I am anit electric. My point is we can both buy our power parts off the shelf, but the YS doesnt require to much of a skill set to install and operate. I for one, wouldnt know what motor to get, then I wouldnt know which Speed Controller or what settings with in it to run. Then I wouldnt know what btty series/parallel would work. WHat you guys run arent sold as a "race package" where as my motor is. You missed that point.
My race is not a YS race. Though a YS is the best choice.
Notice I stated in my rules the engine only has to idle for 5 seconds. Nothing ommiting a nelson, or jett w a carb.
I want the planes to be scale, not totally but close enough to not end up with a Q40 type. Thats not in the intent of the class. I am allowing Phx Strega and other warbirds that on the scale plane had retracts, but on the model dont. Thats to bring in many of the rcpro guys.
This for fun but guys invest some real money and time so lets keep it in the intent of the class. Bring you T34 with a carbed nelson to the warbird champ race- Im good with that. Leave the cub at home, I dont see that as a warbird. Just my opinion within the intent of the class.
What ever happened in the past at a SAMS race is in the past. I believe they have a current set of rules that if you follow, you will be fine.
My rules were tweaked a little more liberal for the sake of the rcpro guys.
But if there is ever a question please email me as you have done to be safe.
That comment on "stirring the pot", actually came from Donna
I for one love your utensils and appreciate you.
I look forward to racing you with my YS powered scale warbird in Gold
My race is not a YS race. Though a YS is the best choice.
Notice I stated in my rules the engine only has to idle for 5 seconds. Nothing ommiting a nelson, or jett w a carb.
I want the planes to be scale, not totally but close enough to not end up with a Q40 type. Thats not in the intent of the class. I am allowing Phx Strega and other warbirds that on the scale plane had retracts, but on the model dont. Thats to bring in many of the rcpro guys.
This for fun but guys invest some real money and time so lets keep it in the intent of the class. Bring you T34 with a carbed nelson to the warbird champ race- Im good with that. Leave the cub at home, I dont see that as a warbird. Just my opinion within the intent of the class.
What ever happened in the past at a SAMS race is in the past. I believe they have a current set of rules that if you follow, you will be fine.
My rules were tweaked a little more liberal for the sake of the rcpro guys.
But if there is ever a question please email me as you have done to be safe.
That comment on "stirring the pot", actually came from Donna
I for one love your utensils and appreciate you.
I look forward to racing you with my YS powered scale warbird in Gold
12-17-2014, 10:49 AM
#18
Senior Member
i am not sure if I understand the worry over parady , if you go faster than break out you loose , and for the unlinited that kinda defeats the pourpse. In RCPRO we did away with the wing charts (except for a min sq. for safety) and have no probs that I am aware of. Also the elect loose just as much as the glow.
Last edited by stang151; 12-17-2014 at 10:57 AM.
12-17-2014, 12:00 PM
#20
My Feedback: (66)
This whole thread about a few guys wanting this race to allow electrics. You know you can start a new class and try promoting that yourself.
The SAMS rules do not favor YS except in the 515 sq wing as there isnt any production engine to match it. all the rest a two stroke can do very well. I have run some 7.5 second laps on a two stroke that wasnt a Nelson or Jett in fact it was a super tiger 45.
I like to race, and with that I read the rules of that race and build a plane for it. Simple as that. I will be building a plane to race the Tri-angle warbird 46 and i will get to a warbird thats electric to race you guys also.
In Texas they have different warbird rules also where they only allow one engine. not many complaining about that.
So I challenge you guys to build a plane that isnt electric and come race the SAMS series and i will come race there with you guys... So you have been called OUT....lol
The SAMS rules do not favor YS except in the 515 sq wing as there isnt any production engine to match it. all the rest a two stroke can do very well. I have run some 7.5 second laps on a two stroke that wasnt a Nelson or Jett in fact it was a super tiger 45.
I like to race, and with that I read the rules of that race and build a plane for it. Simple as that. I will be building a plane to race the Tri-angle warbird 46 and i will get to a warbird thats electric to race you guys also.
In Texas they have different warbird rules also where they only allow one engine. not many complaining about that.
So I challenge you guys to build a plane that isnt electric and come race the SAMS series and i will come race there with you guys... So you have been called OUT....lol
12-17-2014, 12:56 PM
#22
As far as Elec having an advantage I will chime in here for all to hear. I am non biased. I race RCPRO and love racing with the elctrics with my YS nitro. I race Sams and love racing the YS guys with my YS. The electrics do have some advantages: First I think that they do carry a bit more straight speed, and this is only my opinion. How ever they lose it in the turns as they are much heavier. I will say with some of the latest YS115 WS and the Mustang versions I have we have closed that gap significantly. They may have 5 MPH more currently, where they once had 15 MPH easily over the stock ARFs. As soon as we started showing up with better airfoils that gap was reduced. Some people say speed doesnt matter when there is a B/O. They are wrong. Speed helps you not have to "nail" the start and risk a start cut. Speed helps you not have to stick it on the poles every turn, and risk a cut. Speed helps you when you have a "bobble" and make a bad lap or two. Speed helps you push the competition into trying to keep up and causing them into a cut situation. So in some way , "yes" they HAD an advantage. But the planes in the rcpro gold are all capable of B/O (1:30). But the biggest advantage they have over nitro, is they can do a "go around" if they miss the landing.
When ever Chris Corbitt and I are racing, we keep track of each others points to see if we can actually race or we know the other one is still in the hunt for the win and racing "slower" to not B/O. One of these days we will both be out of the same event win opportunity at the same time and we can go head to head. My guess is it will be a very very close race!!
I encourage the Nor Cal guys to come to a RCPRO race and run with these guys. They can run in any class and win or lose.
When ever Chris Corbitt and I are racing, we keep track of each others points to see if we can actually race or we know the other one is still in the hunt for the win and racing "slower" to not B/O. One of these days we will both be out of the same event win opportunity at the same time and we can go head to head. My guess is it will be a very very close race!!
I encourage the Nor Cal guys to come to a RCPRO race and run with these guys. They can run in any class and win or lose.
12-17-2014, 09:02 PM
#25
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I just wanted to add that the reason we started with electric was to see if we could make it work. We obviously have done that since every one is afraid that we have such a large advantage which we don't. Our planes are very heavy and they run out of power sooner among other things. I have watched Marty race against us and his plane is faster and definitely turns better in my opinion. Come watch and I think you will agree.
Again if anyone wants to know what we are using just let me know and we will give you all of the information on what we are using. We have been very open in the past and will continue to in the future. The good thing is we use off the shelf parts that anyone can get and put together easily. The plane we use is a slightly modified cheap Great Planes ARF. We can have an airplane ready from start to finish in no time at all. I don't have the time to spend building so I have to keep it as simple and cheap as possible since I have to provide the equipment for two people to fly.
I would just like to see the minimum rules to make it safe and let everyone who wants to be able to fly gas, glow or electric. As I see it the more competition the better it just makes it more fun. No matter what you are flying and how good it is you still have to be a good pilot and have a little luck to win and event.
You can argue all you want about the rules, but what ever rules you make someone will figure out how to make a faster plane using those rules. That is racing no matter what you race or where you race. They have tried to implement a couple of surprise changes against the electrics when we showed up at an event and found they didn't work. You can figure out how to make anything work if you try hard enough.
Again if anyone wants to know what we are using just let me know and we will give you all of the information on what we are using. We have been very open in the past and will continue to in the future. The good thing is we use off the shelf parts that anyone can get and put together easily. The plane we use is a slightly modified cheap Great Planes ARF. We can have an airplane ready from start to finish in no time at all. I don't have the time to spend building so I have to keep it as simple and cheap as possible since I have to provide the equipment for two people to fly.
I would just like to see the minimum rules to make it safe and let everyone who wants to be able to fly gas, glow or electric. As I see it the more competition the better it just makes it more fun. No matter what you are flying and how good it is you still have to be a good pilot and have a little luck to win and event.
You can argue all you want about the rules, but what ever rules you make someone will figure out how to make a faster plane using those rules. That is racing no matter what you race or where you race. They have tried to implement a couple of surprise changes against the electrics when we showed up at an event and found they didn't work. You can figure out how to make anything work if you try hard enough.