rotor5150

"Electrics and glow shouldn't mix in a racing event period. No AMA event that races planes or cars does this."

Airraptor you are right, I say we break the rules. Stay up past midnight, leave the tie off the bread sack, tear the tags off our pillows!!! Lets be rebels and make this happen. Nitros and electrics together at last...

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

And Chris has finally came out

rotor5150

"Well Chris, that last comment just eliminated electrics fro ever having a chance."

Then you will have a chance of winning, hahaha.... Marty, I know your gonna give me the beatdown of a lifetime next time you see me brother, I do deserve it. I am serious about buying you dinner next time we race. No hard feelings...

rotor5150

The closet was dark and lonely.

Resolute1

Well, grab your shoes and coat while you're in there and let's go flying this afternoon. Greg

Tony Pacini

Solution: breakouts, no wing area table. It's already been proven to work for all power systems and engine configurations: 2C, 4C, nitro, gas, electric. The table doesn't work fairly for 2C vs 4C, and there's no way to fairly integrate electrics. The technology is evolving too quickly.

rotor5150

Greg, I would love to. I am building some pegboard panels for the shop so I can't make it today. I will head over there after closing to get them put up. Are you busy Sunday morning?

rotor5150

Tony, how dare you be reasonable.

Tony Pacini

Oops! Sorry, forgot where I was. Few have accused me of being reasonable, especially here.....

Tony Pacini

No AMA event that races planes uses a breakout, either.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

Wow...You electric guys have all the right answers. Im surprised the events you fly at dont have 60-70 entries like the guys who are still so far behind the curve do. But that would be too reasonable to accept.

Chris I will take you up on that offer, but no fast food. The only thing I like fast is my airplanes.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

It hasnt been prooven to work Tony, the event numbers are down at these races.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

Proove to me the electrics are good. Show me the huge numbers flooding ino the events with them like in pattern. Tell me how" this is what pylon racing needs".
Not just your opinions, which are all fair and good, but show me the proof.

Same to you Glen
Show me how eliminating the wing chart works for warbird racing, cuase it didnt work for you guys.

All I want is for you guys to show me the proof that this is what will work.

Im an open , leave the twist off the bread, kind of guy. But opinions w/o facts are a hard sell to me.

rotor5150

Marty, a good diner it is. I promise no Taco Bell.

tsawyer148

My Feedback: (8)

I really don't think the elimination of the wing area chart was the main cause, (or even a cause at all), of the numbers being down, it had alot more to do with economics as well as other factors. The average drive time to get to some these races is over 6 hours and with gas prices it wasn't in the cards for alot of guys. Phoenix lost their site for a couple of years and they are having an uphill battle getting things back on track. One of the CD's at another venue had health issues and kinda backed away from the events as well as the event itself having plenty of issues for reasons not pertinent to this dicussion. The other, newer venues have seen a marked increase in participation over the last couple of years and even with all that, the numbers going up or down have absolutely nothing to do with the wing area chart.

In contrast, the numbers of E-racers is little by little increasing, maybe not in droves, but again the number of participants at an event is not being dictated in any way, good or bad, by the idea there are electrics at the field.

Tony Pacini

The breakout works as far as regulating performance. Participation is a function of many factors, not just rules. Electric warbird racers are relatively new and only allowed in RCPRO events, and the numbers are gradually increasing. Electric power in pattern and helis and cars and boats nearly everything else is not new, and most of those competitons are functioning under a nationwide set of rules. Go into any hobby shop and look at the mix of electrics vs everything else; electrics dominate the market in every sector.

Anyone who wants to grow a local event to a national level might want to consider embracing the widespread popularity of electric power.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Electric dominate because they hobby industry makes a bunch of money off them. Also electrics are easy to get going. Electrics are cheaper.
Again it is a very big money maker for the industry look at what a foam airplane cost 100 dollars for a piece of molded foam. Then look how easy it is to hook up and fly. You will see why most want to switch.

If I have the time I will build a plane and come race your electric stuff.

Its all about the money.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Oh and electrics are not the future of the hobby it's just where it's going all forced on us by the dealers. Look what tower has done to glow engines. To me electrics are killing the hobby I once knew.

Tony Pacini

Electrics are most certainly the present and future of the r/c hobby. My wife and I recently owned an r/c hobby shop for over a decade, and if it weren't for electrics, we wouldn't have survived. We sold it a few years ago, and the majority of their business is still overwhelmingly electric.

Look beyond entry-level foam airplanes: cars, trucks, boats, helis, as well as many other types of airplanes (pattern, aerobatics, scale, combat, etc.). Even the big stuff is going electric. Dealers are able to sell electrics because it's what people want to buy.

Sure, the entry level foam ARFs (and RTRs and ARFs in general) make it easier and more affordable for people to get into the hobby, but the market is driven by the consumers, not the manufacturers or distributors.

D.E.

Couldnt you just use a measurement of watts to wing size? in electric watts is same as motor size...

I have electric racers that run a FAI course "3 pole" in under 55 seconds and dont even get warm...

stang151

Tony and Bert nailed the reasons for the downturn in entries. As a low buck racer I find it realy hard to justify the cost ,in gas alone, to some of the races. I am not crying woe but it is just the way it is. Many at the field found it just as hard for many reasons . To blame the rules for the low turn out is missing the point. Participation for the whole hobby is down, that the Bay Area is able to retain a thriving race circut I think is great but I don't realy think it is because of the rules.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

DE no way to enforce that unless you did a test before each flight and that can be defeated also with a flight mode on the transmitter. the only way to make a Electric only warbird race regulate it is to do like the EF-1 does. have a list of approved motors, limit max battery size and have a weight min.

MFLOOD3800

My Feedback: (51)

I hope the electrics help racing. But I also hope the niitro doesnt get pushed out as this is the best representation to a reno race IMO. I want to preserve this.
At least until my nitro goes up to $60 gl. Then Im gone

Tony Pacini

So one could infer that the same logic should apply to nitro-powered warbird racers? Approved stock motors (not just grouped by displacement), limit fuel tank size and/or nitro content, and have a minimum weight? Oh, and as with EF-1, perhaps the airframes should be approved, as well? Specify a prop size? Measure max rpm at the start line?

The current wing area table isn't that restrictive for 2C or 4C, so why inflict that on electric racers?

It's clear that most involved in this discussion do not want electric racers included in this proposed national event. It might be easier, then, to just make this a YS 1.15 event. 426 is restricted to one engine, 422 allows only 2 (both the same size, configuration, and similar in performance). Perhaps a single engine/single manufacturer type of event is the recipe for national participation and success. It seems to work pretty well for the mainstream events.

Tony Pacini

I for one enjoy the creativity afforded by these warbird events. Unlike the 3-pole events, the planes don't all look the same and there are many combinations of sizes, airframes, and engines that can be competitive in any of the 3 classes. Some like using 2 strokes, some prefer 4 strokes, most use single engines, but even multi engines are allowed. You can have retracts and flaps if you want to use them. You can whittle on engines or props, design your own airframe, mix your own fuel. You can use a stock ARF, modify an ARF, build a kit, build from plans. I just hate to see anyone try to drill down to a very specific formula and restrict an event that's intended to be fun for the average sport flyer and practical enough for most clubs/fields to be able to host a race.