Building technique: Utilizing a Wing-Jig, Scale P-51 "Speed Wing"
03-09-2015, 07:56 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
a. Trial fit a piece of 3/32" x 3" x 36" sheet aligned along the exposed front half of spar A, beginning in the middle of rib W4 and extending out beyond the tip of the wing. Trim or sand, if necessary, for the edge of the sheeting to align perfectly with the rib. When satisfied, measure 17 1/2" towards the tip and cut with a razor saw.
a. Trial fit a piece of 3/32" x 3" x 36" sheet aligned along the exposed front half of spar A, beginning in the middle of rib W4 and extending out beyond the tip of the wing. Trim or sand, if necessary, for the edge of the sheeting to align perfectly with the rib. When satisfied, measure 17 1/2" towards the tip and cut with a razor saw.
03-09-2015, 08:00 PM
#27
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
b. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, hold the sheeting in-place and mark the leading edge of each rib on the back (bottom) side of the sheet. Remove the sheet and use a straight-edge to cut away the excess sheet ahead of the ribs; but leave yourself about 1/16" of a “fudge factor.”
b. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, hold the sheeting in-place and mark the leading edge of each rib on the back (bottom) side of the sheet. Remove the sheet and use a straight-edge to cut away the excess sheet ahead of the ribs; but leave yourself about 1/16" of a “fudge factor.”
03-09-2015, 08:06 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
c. Mist the back (bottom) side of the sheet with CA accelerator – just the trailing edge section that will touch the spar. Apply medium CA to the exposed section of spar A from the outer section of rib W4 to the tip (and to the leading edge of the mid-sheeting section, if desired). Line this piece of sheeting up, flush against the mid-sheeting section. Gently press or pinch the sheeting down the full length of the spar. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to each of the ribs.
c. Mist the back (bottom) side of the sheet with CA accelerator – just the trailing edge section that will touch the spar. Apply medium CA to the exposed section of spar A from the outer section of rib W4 to the tip (and to the leading edge of the mid-sheeting section, if desired). Line this piece of sheeting up, flush against the mid-sheeting section. Gently press or pinch the sheeting down the full length of the spar. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to each of the ribs.
Last edited by Iron Dog; 03-09-2015 at 08:41 PM.
03-09-2015, 08:10 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
d. Using a long sanding bar, carefully sand the sheeting flush with the leading edge of the ribs.
d. Using a long sanding bar, carefully sand the sheeting flush with the leading edge of the ribs.
Last edited by Iron Dog; 03-09-2015 at 08:43 PM.
03-09-2015, 09:13 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
e. Sheeting the extra-tapered, longer section at the root is next. From the scrap of the 3" sheeting from step 7a, cut a 7 1/2" piece to use to fill in from ribs W4 to W1. Another scrap piece will be needed just ahead of this, and you will want both of these pieces to contact all four ribs, so the 3" x 7 1/2" piece will need to be angled. I cut mine 2 7/8" (at root rib W1) x 2 1/4" (at W4). Trim or sand, if necessary, to properly align with the other 3” sheeting section applied in step 7C. Apply medium CA to the exposed section of spar A from the inner section of rib W4 to the root (and to the leading edge of the mid-sheeting section, if desired). Line this piece of sheeting up, flush against both the mid-sheeting section and recently applied leading edge sheeting beginning at W4. Gently press or pinch the sheeting down the full length of the spar. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to each of the ribs.
This picture shows the 3" x 7 1/2" sheeting piece from Step 7e roughly in-place, as well as the angled section removed from it -- both sitting on the ribs. In front of the wing panel, is the forward piece detailed in Step 7f.
f. For the last piece of top sheeting, I used the thicker end of the approximately 2 1/2" x 1 7/16" scrap piece trimmed away in Step 2 as the final top leading-edge sheeting piece. Line up the 2 1/2" end overhanging the root slightly, then cut the smaller end to align with the sheeting at rib W4. Trim or sand so it is flush with the two adjoining sheeting pieces. Apply a bead of medium CA to the trailing edge and carefully align it with the sheeting glued down in the previous step. As before, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to the ribs.
Initially, the forward-most sheeting piece is simply glued to the adjacent sheeting pieces.
Turn the jig on end to apply thin CA. Be careful not to bump the trailing edge on anything in the process.
(This view shows the complex curvature of the extra-tapered root section. It is caused due to the substantially larger ribs, compounded by the thicker airfoil used by the stock World Model and Great Planes wings, needed to fit the saddle of stock fuses. As explained early in Step 7, this complex curvature makes gluing a wide, one-piece sheet across the full length of the panel a very challenging undertaking.)
e. Sheeting the extra-tapered, longer section at the root is next. From the scrap of the 3" sheeting from step 7a, cut a 7 1/2" piece to use to fill in from ribs W4 to W1. Another scrap piece will be needed just ahead of this, and you will want both of these pieces to contact all four ribs, so the 3" x 7 1/2" piece will need to be angled. I cut mine 2 7/8" (at root rib W1) x 2 1/4" (at W4). Trim or sand, if necessary, to properly align with the other 3” sheeting section applied in step 7C. Apply medium CA to the exposed section of spar A from the inner section of rib W4 to the root (and to the leading edge of the mid-sheeting section, if desired). Line this piece of sheeting up, flush against both the mid-sheeting section and recently applied leading edge sheeting beginning at W4. Gently press or pinch the sheeting down the full length of the spar. With the jig on-end or turned upside-down, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to each of the ribs.
This picture shows the 3" x 7 1/2" sheeting piece from Step 7e roughly in-place, as well as the angled section removed from it -- both sitting on the ribs. In front of the wing panel, is the forward piece detailed in Step 7f.
f. For the last piece of top sheeting, I used the thicker end of the approximately 2 1/2" x 1 7/16" scrap piece trimmed away in Step 2 as the final top leading-edge sheeting piece. Line up the 2 1/2" end overhanging the root slightly, then cut the smaller end to align with the sheeting at rib W4. Trim or sand so it is flush with the two adjoining sheeting pieces. Apply a bead of medium CA to the trailing edge and carefully align it with the sheeting glued down in the previous step. As before, use thin CA to glue the sheeting to the ribs.
Initially, the forward-most sheeting piece is simply glued to the adjacent sheeting pieces.
Turn the jig on end to apply thin CA. Be careful not to bump the trailing edge on anything in the process.
(This view shows the complex curvature of the extra-tapered root section. It is caused due to the substantially larger ribs, compounded by the thicker airfoil used by the stock World Model and Great Planes wings, needed to fit the saddle of stock fuses. As explained early in Step 7, this complex curvature makes gluing a wide, one-piece sheet across the full length of the panel a very challenging undertaking.)
Last edited by Iron Dog; 03-09-2015 at 09:37 PM.
03-09-2015, 09:43 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Sheeting the Top of the Wing:
g. Using a small sanding block, sand the leading edge of the sheeting flush with ribs W2 to W4; as well as the straight section from W1 to W2.
g. Using a small sanding block, sand the leading edge of the sheeting flush with ribs W2 to W4; as well as the straight section from W1 to W2.
Last edited by Iron Dog; 03-09-2015 at 09:48 PM.
04-17-2015, 01:25 PM
#32
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Awesome, thread I can't wait to finish building my new backup, and the main plane new wing, so I can start on this.
Is the bottom sheeting the same as the top, do you have any tips for servo hatches and wheel well positioning.
Thanks
Bulldog
Is the bottom sheeting the same as the top, do you have any tips for servo hatches and wheel well positioning.
Thanks
Bulldog
04-17-2015, 04:37 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Thank you, James!
It was really good to see you at the races. Sorry about your plane, and that we barely got to talk. Between racing myself, calling for others, and trying to give Kimo occasional assistance, I didn't have much down-time. (Again Kimo: "Awesome job running the race, and thank you!" I had a great time.)
The bottom sheeting is very similar to the top, but the differences are worth noting. I will definitely have some suggestions with ailerons, wheel wells, and servo hatches, as we progress through this process. My buddy Tim, of 8th Scale Aviation's outstanding and rather unique kits (see the TA 152, Me 209, "Tsutonami", etc., build threads within this forum), saw how I was doing the wheel wells, and liked it; so perhaps it will give you a slightly different method to consider, too.
I have done a little more work on my wing, but haven't had time to post it yet. (I do a little work on it . . . do my best to take pictures . . . spend too much time trying to write it out on my laptop in my workshop & caption the photos . . . then have to transfer text from my PC laptop to my Mac desktop . . . upload photos from my camera to the PC . . . resize them so my ridiculously slow satellite-internet connection might decide to actually upload a picture the FIRST time (usually it takes two or three attempts) . . . import the text -- all the while the text does all kinds of weird things going from one format to another (MS Word --> Apple's Pages --> whatever program/format this forum uses . . . and editing the posts due to these inevitable errors). Doing this has definitely been slow going. But the killer lately has been all the extra Spring chores around the farm as it has exploded in growth due to recent rain with unseasonably warm weather, and all the preparation to get Eric and I ready for the races last weekend; while still balancing my day-job.
But, I will get it posted relatively soon for you -- should easily be before you get through the other projects you appear to have slated for yourself. As I hope you will find out for yourself: Once begun, the progression of the work itself -- were I JUST building the wing -- goes quite quickly and pretty easily. Especially, once one has built using this method initially, and become accustomed to its nuances.
Please don't be afraid to ask ANY other questions you might have; or, give me additional feedback. That is exactly why I am doing this. Be sure to tell me when you start!
Ollie
It was really good to see you at the races. Sorry about your plane, and that we barely got to talk. Between racing myself, calling for others, and trying to give Kimo occasional assistance, I didn't have much down-time. (Again Kimo: "Awesome job running the race, and thank you!" I had a great time.)
The bottom sheeting is very similar to the top, but the differences are worth noting. I will definitely have some suggestions with ailerons, wheel wells, and servo hatches, as we progress through this process. My buddy Tim, of 8th Scale Aviation's outstanding and rather unique kits (see the TA 152, Me 209, "Tsutonami", etc., build threads within this forum), saw how I was doing the wheel wells, and liked it; so perhaps it will give you a slightly different method to consider, too.
I have done a little more work on my wing, but haven't had time to post it yet. (I do a little work on it . . . do my best to take pictures . . . spend too much time trying to write it out on my laptop in my workshop & caption the photos . . . then have to transfer text from my PC laptop to my Mac desktop . . . upload photos from my camera to the PC . . . resize them so my ridiculously slow satellite-internet connection might decide to actually upload a picture the FIRST time (usually it takes two or three attempts) . . . import the text -- all the while the text does all kinds of weird things going from one format to another (MS Word --> Apple's Pages --> whatever program/format this forum uses . . . and editing the posts due to these inevitable errors). Doing this has definitely been slow going. But the killer lately has been all the extra Spring chores around the farm as it has exploded in growth due to recent rain with unseasonably warm weather, and all the preparation to get Eric and I ready for the races last weekend; while still balancing my day-job.
But, I will get it posted relatively soon for you -- should easily be before you get through the other projects you appear to have slated for yourself. As I hope you will find out for yourself: Once begun, the progression of the work itself -- were I JUST building the wing -- goes quite quickly and pretty easily. Especially, once one has built using this method initially, and become accustomed to its nuances.
Please don't be afraid to ask ANY other questions you might have; or, give me additional feedback. That is exactly why I am doing this. Be sure to tell me when you start!
Ollie
04-17-2015, 06:59 PM
#34
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Ollie,
It was a racing crash, I have no hard feelings about it.
I have ordered the carbon rods today so I should be all set when it is time to start. The projects I have are all designed to allow me to race at Redding. I don't want to go all that way up there without 2 ready silver planes and at the moment I have 0 so I need to build.
James
It was a racing crash, I have no hard feelings about it.
I have ordered the carbon rods today so I should be all set when it is time to start. The projects I have are all designed to allow me to race at Redding. I don't want to go all that way up there without 2 ready silver planes and at the moment I have 0 so I need to build.
James
04-17-2015, 08:22 PM
#35
Thread Starter
I feel in a similar place, James.
My Fw190 was perfect for Sacramento, but several people have said over the years that their planes run slower at Redding (for whatever reason). And last year, I found that both my Bf109 and my P-47 ran nearly a full-second a lap slower in Redding, than when I timed them on the course the day before in Sacramento. I had to run extra nitro to make up the difference. But, do not want to run any higher nitro than I already do in my YS.91, so need something else to run in Redding. (I don't know if there truly are atmospheric differences, as some say; or just that I am not as familiar with the course, so I tend to run longer to ensure I don't cut; or a combination of both?)
So, my plan is to finish two larger P-47s that have the wing area so that I can put 115s in, to keep the nitro down. Therefore, need to finish them, first. Then want to make two new Galloping Ghosts (or, at least one) with my new wing design to run at my VALLEY OF SPEED race in August. The first prototype is done, the second prototype has some changes, and is the one being built throughout this thread.
My Fw190 was perfect for Sacramento, but several people have said over the years that their planes run slower at Redding (for whatever reason). And last year, I found that both my Bf109 and my P-47 ran nearly a full-second a lap slower in Redding, than when I timed them on the course the day before in Sacramento. I had to run extra nitro to make up the difference. But, do not want to run any higher nitro than I already do in my YS.91, so need something else to run in Redding. (I don't know if there truly are atmospheric differences, as some say; or just that I am not as familiar with the course, so I tend to run longer to ensure I don't cut; or a combination of both?)
So, my plan is to finish two larger P-47s that have the wing area so that I can put 115s in, to keep the nitro down. Therefore, need to finish them, first. Then want to make two new Galloping Ghosts (or, at least one) with my new wing design to run at my VALLEY OF SPEED race in August. The first prototype is done, the second prototype has some changes, and is the one being built throughout this thread.
04-17-2015, 08:34 PM
#36
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I have heard the same thing. I think the clipped wing mustang will be fine as I have a hard time slowing her down at points. I will also take some 40% with me. I am looking forward to Redding, I did not want to go before due to the distance but now it is a points race I will make the trip.
04-17-2015, 09:50 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Outstanding! I'm just glad you're gonna go -- whatever the motivating factor. More fun for me!
Once you go, I think you'll find it's worth it, and you'll want to go back again, next year. I had an especially great time camping out, last year; as opposed to staying at the hotel the first year. And Loren's crew took great care of us.
And I would agree: the Mustang with a 115 is more than fast enough.
Once you go, I think you'll find it's worth it, and you'll want to go back again, next year. I had an especially great time camping out, last year; as opposed to staying at the hotel the first year. And Loren's crew took great care of us.
And I would agree: the Mustang with a 115 is more than fast enough.
04-18-2015, 06:02 AM
#38
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Hi Iron Dog. I'm interested in this speed wing kit of yours. Will it fit the World Models P51 and if so do you sell the kits? Busy right now re-enforcing the stock wing but doubt it will be fast enough for
the Gold class. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you.
the Gold class. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you.
04-18-2015, 09:53 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Hi Dan. Good to hear from you, again. I am still very much looking forward to meeting you face-to-face in Fresno (or perhaps sooner?), this year.
I wanted to keep this thread that which it is stated to be: an explanation of a lesser known building technique, as well as to serve as on on-line instruction manual to help my friends that may choose to build this wing kit so they can be very successful. I did not want this to come across as a sales pitch, so when I stated . . .
"The intent of this design was to improve scale fidelity by incorporating a truly scale wing outline/plan-form, given the length of the World Models P-51 ARF and original Great Planes P-51 kit/ARF, while introducing an airfoil design that was capable of higher racing speeds and slightly improved low-speed stability, when compared to the stock wing – especially if the stock wing was clipped."
. . . near at the beginning of the thread, I merely implied that this wing would fit the World Models and Great Planes P-51s. I did not make this clear at all. So, for you or anyone else that may be interested, allow me to clarify: "Yes", it was designed to be an exact, drop-in fit for a World Models P-51, with no additional headaches (like having to make and install a mating "crutch" like I have seen on another's similar design; even though this wing does have a faster airfoil. This is accomplished by using Ribs 1 and 2 from the original World Models kit to perfectly match the wing saddle of the fuse. All ribs that extend beyond the fuse incorporate the faster airfoil.
This is the initial prototype laser-cut wing kit with a stock World Models P-51 fuse loosely sitting on top. Without any special contouring of either assemblies' surfaces, you can see it truly is a "drop-in fit."
Same initial wing with my Galloping Ghost fuse loosely sitting on top. Different wing than when originally built for it, yet still a perfect fit!
I did also intend to eventually make it available to any that wanted one, but with it still in 2nd prototype stages, was not expecting to sell any before the design was perfected. I ordered 6 of these kits cut: 1 for me to build here and work out any "bugs" in the design before I made them more widely available, 3 as prizes for my VALLEY OF SPEED race, and 2 for friends that wanted one ASAP and stated they didn't mind if it wasn't perfected, yet. "Bulldog" (JPGale) has one, and my other friend just had another baby and is getting out of racing for awhile. So, I do have one extra wing kit on-hand at the moment.
Obviously, my goal is to finish the build, discover any potential design problems through this process (I have found some), then make necessary changes before cutting more kits for myself and any others who may be interested -- including a couple replacement parts and a plans update for the other kits I am currently holding. I am a perfectionist, so I want anyone that obtains this kit -- especially if they are paying for it -- to have a great experience with it.
I wanted to keep this thread that which it is stated to be: an explanation of a lesser known building technique, as well as to serve as on on-line instruction manual to help my friends that may choose to build this wing kit so they can be very successful. I did not want this to come across as a sales pitch, so when I stated . . .
"The intent of this design was to improve scale fidelity by incorporating a truly scale wing outline/plan-form, given the length of the World Models P-51 ARF and original Great Planes P-51 kit/ARF, while introducing an airfoil design that was capable of higher racing speeds and slightly improved low-speed stability, when compared to the stock wing – especially if the stock wing was clipped."
. . . near at the beginning of the thread, I merely implied that this wing would fit the World Models and Great Planes P-51s. I did not make this clear at all. So, for you or anyone else that may be interested, allow me to clarify: "Yes", it was designed to be an exact, drop-in fit for a World Models P-51, with no additional headaches (like having to make and install a mating "crutch" like I have seen on another's similar design; even though this wing does have a faster airfoil. This is accomplished by using Ribs 1 and 2 from the original World Models kit to perfectly match the wing saddle of the fuse. All ribs that extend beyond the fuse incorporate the faster airfoil.
This is the initial prototype laser-cut wing kit with a stock World Models P-51 fuse loosely sitting on top. Without any special contouring of either assemblies' surfaces, you can see it truly is a "drop-in fit."
Same initial wing with my Galloping Ghost fuse loosely sitting on top. Different wing than when originally built for it, yet still a perfect fit!
I did also intend to eventually make it available to any that wanted one, but with it still in 2nd prototype stages, was not expecting to sell any before the design was perfected. I ordered 6 of these kits cut: 1 for me to build here and work out any "bugs" in the design before I made them more widely available, 3 as prizes for my VALLEY OF SPEED race, and 2 for friends that wanted one ASAP and stated they didn't mind if it wasn't perfected, yet. "Bulldog" (JPGale) has one, and my other friend just had another baby and is getting out of racing for awhile. So, I do have one extra wing kit on-hand at the moment.
Obviously, my goal is to finish the build, discover any potential design problems through this process (I have found some), then make necessary changes before cutting more kits for myself and any others who may be interested -- including a couple replacement parts and a plans update for the other kits I am currently holding. I am a perfectionist, so I want anyone that obtains this kit -- especially if they are paying for it -- to have a great experience with it.
04-19-2015, 04:13 AM
#40
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Thanks Iron Dog. That is a perfect fit. I'm a perfectionist as well. A trait passed on by my Grandfather who built violins. Sometimes it feels like a curse, like yesterday when it took me 4 hours to monokote the bottom of my wing, but it came out nice, so I guess I shouldn't complain. When your fully satisfied with your wing project and decide to kit them for sale please keep me in mind.
Hope to meet you one day soon. Maybe at the Championship Race in November. Keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your post.
Hope to meet you one day soon. Maybe at the Championship Race in November. Keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your post.
05-19-2015, 08:57 AM
#41
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So I am planning to start building this wing over the coming weekend, the backup for the Redding race is my priority but I will have a period where I am waiting for glue to dry. I was planning on using these servos for the aileron http://www.horizonhobby.com/a7020-di...ervo-spmsa7020.
James
James
05-19-2015, 09:55 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Good to hear, James.
My 1st-prototype wing has a pair of mini-servos with the same torque rating as the Spectrum wing servos you are using. I like your more purpose-specific, thin-wing servos better; but either choice, with digitals, I think we're just fine with this amount of torque when running Silver speeds.
I intend to push this 2nd-prototype wing harder, to see what it will do towards Gold. So, I have a pair of thin-wing servos, similar to yours, slated to go into this second wing (being built in the course of this thread). I caught them on a good sale 3 or 4 months ago ($35 each, with no sales tax & free shipping); and, these have a little higher torque rating to give me peace of mind when kicking-up to Gold speeds:
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...vo-wngmnt.html
I may have misunderstood when we talked last, but thought you were going to take longer to get to the wing, beings you were going to take my fuse plug and make molds, and then lay-up a fuse, too. So my priority switched to working on my P-47s needed for the Redding Race, and have had to put this wing project on hold, temporarily. If you catch up to where I have posted, let me know. I have done a bit more that I haven't gotten around to posting yet, and may be able to make that happen. If not, I took some pictures during the build of the first prototype, and can at least send you those via e-mail and would happily answer any questions on the phone if you want to call me and discuss. I'll be on Summer Break, in two weeks, so will start getting caught up on everything soon.
Ollie
My 1st-prototype wing has a pair of mini-servos with the same torque rating as the Spectrum wing servos you are using. I like your more purpose-specific, thin-wing servos better; but either choice, with digitals, I think we're just fine with this amount of torque when running Silver speeds.
I intend to push this 2nd-prototype wing harder, to see what it will do towards Gold. So, I have a pair of thin-wing servos, similar to yours, slated to go into this second wing (being built in the course of this thread). I caught them on a good sale 3 or 4 months ago ($35 each, with no sales tax & free shipping); and, these have a little higher torque rating to give me peace of mind when kicking-up to Gold speeds:
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...vo-wngmnt.html
I may have misunderstood when we talked last, but thought you were going to take longer to get to the wing, beings you were going to take my fuse plug and make molds, and then lay-up a fuse, too. So my priority switched to working on my P-47s needed for the Redding Race, and have had to put this wing project on hold, temporarily. If you catch up to where I have posted, let me know. I have done a bit more that I haven't gotten around to posting yet, and may be able to make that happen. If not, I took some pictures during the build of the first prototype, and can at least send you those via e-mail and would happily answer any questions on the phone if you want to call me and discuss. I'll be on Summer Break, in two weeks, so will start getting caught up on everything soon.
Ollie
05-21-2015, 10:07 AM
#43
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Thanks Ollie
Yea no hurry, my backup racer is also my priority. I hope to start the lay up on the plug soon as well, but I am waiting for the weather to warm up a bit first. (After this winter I was not expecting it to be so cold right about now). I have used 1 88oz in torque servo to control 2 inboard ailerons so I should think that these would have enough, however more is always better I will keep an eye on these to see if they go down in price. I could always consult with the Professor (Sumich's nickname around here) he has a lot of experience with this stuff.
James
Yea no hurry, my backup racer is also my priority. I hope to start the lay up on the plug soon as well, but I am waiting for the weather to warm up a bit first. (After this winter I was not expecting it to be so cold right about now). I have used 1 88oz in torque servo to control 2 inboard ailerons so I should think that these would have enough, however more is always better I will keep an eye on these to see if they go down in price. I could always consult with the Professor (Sumich's nickname around here) he has a lot of experience with this stuff.
James
05-30-2015, 09:10 PM
#44
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Hey Ollie,
I talked to Mark, he thinks the servos I was looking at will have enough torque for the job.
I have also started to transcribe this post in to a word document so I can print it out and have it next to me as I build. Once you have finished this post and I have built the wing, I can give you a copy that could be included with your wing kit if you want.
James
I talked to Mark, he thinks the servos I was looking at will have enough torque for the job.
I have also started to transcribe this post in to a word document so I can print it out and have it next to me as I build. Once you have finished this post and I have built the wing, I can give you a copy that could be included with your wing kit if you want.
James
05-31-2015, 09:22 AM
#45
Thread Starter
Hi James,
What has made posting to this thread so time consuming and difficult is that when I have worked on my wing, I have my Dell laptop on a workbench in my shop. As I complete a couple steps, I take pictures along the way, then stop and write out the process of those steps in MS Word. Next, I have to save the instructions on a thumb drive, and then pull them up on my iMac which is connected to the internet. But, the iMac doesn't have Word, so I have to convert the file to Pages. The program conversion causes some formatting issues which I have to fix. Then, I copy steps from Pages, and post them into a Reply Box here on RCU. RCU REALLY doesn't seem to like text pasted from Pages, copied from MS Word; which in-turn leads to far more formatting issues that I have to fix (you may have noted all the various sizes of typeface throughout this post) . . . some of which refuse to be fixable no matter what I do; and, others the reply box shows as fixed, but still ultimately post incorrectly. Lastly, I then unload my pictures, and then attempt to match them, and upload them into the appropriate individual posts. But, because I have to use my incredibly slow Satellite internet connection, my pictures won't upload, even with the camera set to the the lowest resolution setting - the files are still too big. So next I have to individually edit each photo to half of even that resolution. Still, the photos won't always upload, and I must re-edit to make the file size 1/3 the original resolution and try again. Then, easily about half the time, there is still an issue, and have to re-edit the post.
Bottom Line: this is a royal pain in the butt!
I already have it in MS Word . . . only without the pictures. I can likely email you the Word file without too much difficulty and file save you some of the work if you haven't finished transcribing it yet. But, beings I was going to have to go back later and post the pics into the Word file to make an instruction manual to accompany my kits when others receive them, anyway, and you are such a computer whiz, if you already have it done, I'd love a copy! It would save me additional time and hassle.
Let me know.
What has made posting to this thread so time consuming and difficult is that when I have worked on my wing, I have my Dell laptop on a workbench in my shop. As I complete a couple steps, I take pictures along the way, then stop and write out the process of those steps in MS Word. Next, I have to save the instructions on a thumb drive, and then pull them up on my iMac which is connected to the internet. But, the iMac doesn't have Word, so I have to convert the file to Pages. The program conversion causes some formatting issues which I have to fix. Then, I copy steps from Pages, and post them into a Reply Box here on RCU. RCU REALLY doesn't seem to like text pasted from Pages, copied from MS Word; which in-turn leads to far more formatting issues that I have to fix (you may have noted all the various sizes of typeface throughout this post) . . . some of which refuse to be fixable no matter what I do; and, others the reply box shows as fixed, but still ultimately post incorrectly. Lastly, I then unload my pictures, and then attempt to match them, and upload them into the appropriate individual posts. But, because I have to use my incredibly slow Satellite internet connection, my pictures won't upload, even with the camera set to the the lowest resolution setting - the files are still too big. So next I have to individually edit each photo to half of even that resolution. Still, the photos won't always upload, and I must re-edit to make the file size 1/3 the original resolution and try again. Then, easily about half the time, there is still an issue, and have to re-edit the post.
Bottom Line: this is a royal pain in the butt!
I already have it in MS Word . . . only without the pictures. I can likely email you the Word file without too much difficulty and file save you some of the work if you haven't finished transcribing it yet. But, beings I was going to have to go back later and post the pics into the Word file to make an instruction manual to accompany my kits when others receive them, anyway, and you are such a computer whiz, if you already have it done, I'd love a copy! It would save me additional time and hassle.
Let me know.
05-31-2015, 06:36 PM
#46
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I have not finished it yet, so having the word file will help. I can also help you here, if you markup where you want the pictures and such I can post them here as well and make it all happen in Word. You could give me a thumb drive in Redding. I can even bring a computer with me. I think the formatting problem is the fact that MS Word and Pages use rich text.
06-30-2015, 10:46 AM
#47
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Hey Ollie,
I am looking at the retracts, we had talked about using some hobby king retracts with this wing, these are the ones I am looking at (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...m_1pc_54g.html), what ones did you get?
James
I am looking at the retracts, we had talked about using some hobby king retracts with this wing, these are the ones I am looking at (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...m_1pc_54g.html), what ones did you get?
James
06-30-2015, 06:06 PM
#48
Thread Starter
James,
Those are actually .60-sized retracts, not .40-sized. You can order those, and they will work (they are the ones I ordered when I built the first prototype wing), but they are a little too big to fit in such a slim airfoil. To make them work, I had to mount the flanges of the retract outside of the wing. Purists would not be happy with the additional drag as the flanges cannot be countersunk to be flush with the bottom surface of the wing. This is what I mean, and what it will end up looking like:
I put my 5/32" Hobbico gear legs in the hole in the trunnion, and they were very loose - probably too loose. Equivalent to 0.197", the 5mm hole is essentially a 3/16" (0.1875"), rather than a 5/32".
Tim Stafford took the measurements of the next smaller size - those with the 4mm (0.1527") hole for the gear leg, and are equivalent to a 5/32" (0.1526"). These are a .40-size, and he stated that according to his measurements within the CAD files, these should fit flush within the wing. HobbyKing does not seem to offer the 4mm at the moment, but they can be found through Phillip Workshop RC. This is the direct link to the retracts I am referring to:
http://www.pw-rc.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id/3367
Ollie
Those are actually .60-sized retracts, not .40-sized. You can order those, and they will work (they are the ones I ordered when I built the first prototype wing), but they are a little too big to fit in such a slim airfoil. To make them work, I had to mount the flanges of the retract outside of the wing. Purists would not be happy with the additional drag as the flanges cannot be countersunk to be flush with the bottom surface of the wing. This is what I mean, and what it will end up looking like:
I put my 5/32" Hobbico gear legs in the hole in the trunnion, and they were very loose - probably too loose. Equivalent to 0.197", the 5mm hole is essentially a 3/16" (0.1875"), rather than a 5/32".
Tim Stafford took the measurements of the next smaller size - those with the 4mm (0.1527") hole for the gear leg, and are equivalent to a 5/32" (0.1526"). These are a .40-size, and he stated that according to his measurements within the CAD files, these should fit flush within the wing. HobbyKing does not seem to offer the 4mm at the moment, but they can be found through Phillip Workshop RC. This is the direct link to the retracts I am referring to:
http://www.pw-rc.com/product_info.ph...oducts_id/3367
Ollie
Last edited by Iron Dog; 06-30-2015 at 10:45 PM.
07-01-2015, 09:15 AM
#49
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James
07-22-2015, 01:42 PM
#50
Thread Starter
Well James,
I hadn't quite decided which retracts I was putting into my wing, yet . . .
. . . I had 3 of the HK .60-sized electrics left over from my previous order (two pair + a spare), before I figured out these were the wrong size. So, I these are already paid for and on-hand; but, I didn't want to have to modify the design to make them fit, again. Besides, I'll never know how accurate the design is, if I don't build it specifically as designed.
. . . I also had Hobbico mechanicals on-hand, and as they are about the same size as the electrics you ordered, they fit well if placed against Rib W4. These seem to be most people's "go-to" retracts, and thought many might want to see these demonstrated. But against, the design was not specifically engineered with retract servo mounting rails in-mind, and I did not want to have to "rig" some in there after-the-fact.
. . . So, you helped me finally decide. Beings you already ordered the 4mm .40-sized electrics, I have decided to do the same and just ordered two pairs of them. So, the good news is that I can give you my "two cents" on the install of the exact same retracts you will be using on your build. The downside is that I am temporarily on-hold from going any further on my build, until they arrive.
I finally found some time to work on my wing the other day, so will attempt to take you further through my build -- right up to the point where retract installation becomes critical.
I hadn't quite decided which retracts I was putting into my wing, yet . . .
. . . I had 3 of the HK .60-sized electrics left over from my previous order (two pair + a spare), before I figured out these were the wrong size. So, I these are already paid for and on-hand; but, I didn't want to have to modify the design to make them fit, again. Besides, I'll never know how accurate the design is, if I don't build it specifically as designed.
. . . I also had Hobbico mechanicals on-hand, and as they are about the same size as the electrics you ordered, they fit well if placed against Rib W4. These seem to be most people's "go-to" retracts, and thought many might want to see these demonstrated. But against, the design was not specifically engineered with retract servo mounting rails in-mind, and I did not want to have to "rig" some in there after-the-fact.
. . . So, you helped me finally decide. Beings you already ordered the 4mm .40-sized electrics, I have decided to do the same and just ordered two pairs of them. So, the good news is that I can give you my "two cents" on the install of the exact same retracts you will be using on your build. The downside is that I am temporarily on-hold from going any further on my build, until they arrive.
I finally found some time to work on my wing the other day, so will attempt to take you further through my build -- right up to the point where retract installation becomes critical.
Last edited by Iron Dog; 07-22-2015 at 01:57 PM.