Scale racing
07-22-2015, 09:37 AM
#1
Scale racing
Most of us are getting in to the Warbird racing simulating Reno air races.
How many of you would be interested in a biplane class. Race around with biplanes at silver speed?
just thinking about this the other night and want to see if there is an interest.
How many of you would be interested in a biplane class. Race around with biplanes at silver speed?
just thinking about this the other night and want to see if there is an interest.
07-22-2015, 11:05 AM
#2
So . . . racing ALL THREE classes already still isn't enough racing for you, huh Jeff?! 
. . . (Gotta love and admire his enthusiasm!)
Personally, I have interest in seeing an homage to the other forms of scale racing, just as you do, Jeff. But, if you limit it to just biplanes, I think you would limit this potential class' success in the long-run; and, likely before it ever truly got started. Many pilots would not wish to repeatedly have to build a second wing, just to have an entry.
If you are talking about "Silver speed", I assume you intend a breakout. As this is the most popular speed-class, and is still fast enough to capture the excitement factor, I think this would be wise. Going faster: 1) requires too much reinforcement, making a biplane an even more intimidating project for some; 2) starts to get too far away from "scale" speeds for others. In my opinion, a 2:00 (rather than the 1:55) breakout would be the best compromise of all the factors, and the slight time differential would serve to still somewhat distinguish it from Silver Class Warbird class, too.
If you want to pay homage to the other forms of scale racing, why not open it up to all the non-warbird prop-driven classes (biplane, Formula I, and sport), as well as include Golden Era? The break-out serves to help mitigate the advantage one design would have over another, while allowing most everyones' interests in scale racing to be included.
I think you would need this much wider base to draw from, to see a viable class have any chance of continuing long-term.
Ollie
. . . (Gotta love and admire his enthusiasm!)
Personally, I have interest in seeing an homage to the other forms of scale racing, just as you do, Jeff. But, if you limit it to just biplanes, I think you would limit this potential class' success in the long-run; and, likely before it ever truly got started. Many pilots would not wish to repeatedly have to build a second wing, just to have an entry.
If you are talking about "Silver speed", I assume you intend a breakout. As this is the most popular speed-class, and is still fast enough to capture the excitement factor, I think this would be wise. Going faster: 1) requires too much reinforcement, making a biplane an even more intimidating project for some; 2) starts to get too far away from "scale" speeds for others. In my opinion, a 2:00 (rather than the 1:55) breakout would be the best compromise of all the factors, and the slight time differential would serve to still somewhat distinguish it from Silver Class Warbird class, too.
If you want to pay homage to the other forms of scale racing, why not open it up to all the non-warbird prop-driven classes (biplane, Formula I, and sport), as well as include Golden Era? The break-out serves to help mitigate the advantage one design would have over another, while allowing most everyones' interests in scale racing to be included.
I think you would need this much wider base to draw from, to see a viable class have any chance of continuing long-term.
Ollie
07-22-2015, 12:32 PM
#3
yes the sport class would be better as many more planes out there and arfs too. I know as it is now we only have enough time for three classes in warbirds. Just looking at maybe another form of racing to add to the mix. maybe do a F-1, biplane and sportsman class on a different weekend. Just looking at expanding the sport and racing
07-22-2015, 08:52 PM
#6
Yes Ollie but it has been retired and is hanging in my mother in laws sewing room. It was a tribute airplane when she had cancer. It proudly displays pink ribbons, one representing each grandchild. It was an easy build and I could come up with a cowl and canopy mold fairly easily. There are tons of plans available for these airplanes.
07-23-2015, 08:42 PM
#8
I think the problem here is the availability of aircraft that will get people to race. sure there are plans out there and there a few kits but not many arfs. I like the idea of a 2:00 break out.
I think for an additional class the sportsman might be a better choice to get more involved. In the sportsman I could allow F-1 designs. thinking the sportsman might combine, RENO F-1, sportsman, T-6 and Biplanes in one group. I am thinking of limiting the engine size also like maybe YS 70 or any four stroke under .90. Looking to make this a lower cost entry. like these planes
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=123
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=122
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=84
http://www.nitroplanes.com/newcmpla3650.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/la52nigasrar.html
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCYHK&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXARYB&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEKBT&P=0
These are just a few that I found and sure there are more out there.
Anyway thoughts?
I think for an additional class the sportsman might be a better choice to get more involved. In the sportsman I could allow F-1 designs. thinking the sportsman might combine, RENO F-1, sportsman, T-6 and Biplanes in one group. I am thinking of limiting the engine size also like maybe YS 70 or any four stroke under .90. Looking to make this a lower cost entry. like these planes
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=123
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...?ProductID=122
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=84
http://www.nitroplanes.com/newcmpla3650.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/la52nigasrar.html
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCYHK&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXARYB&P=0
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEKBT&P=0
These are just a few that I found and sure there are more out there.
Anyway thoughts?
07-23-2015, 11:14 PM
#9
I think the problem here is the availability of aircraft that will get people to race. sure there are plans out there and there a few kits but not many arfs. I like the idea of a 2:00 break out.
I think for an additional class the sportsman might be a better choice to get more involved. In the sportsman I could allow F-1 designs. thinking the sportsman might combine, RENO F-1, sportsman, T-6 and Biplanes in one group. Anyway thoughts?
I think for an additional class the sportsman might be a better choice to get more involved. In the sportsman I could allow F-1 designs. thinking the sportsman might combine, RENO F-1, sportsman, T-6 and Biplanes in one group. Anyway thoughts?
When I stated in my initial post . . . "If you want to pay homage to the other forms of scale racing, why not open it up to all the non-warbird prop-driven classes (biplane, Formula I, and sport), as well as include Golden Era? The break-out serves to help mitigate the advantage one design would have over another, while allowing most everyones' interests in scale racing to be included."
. . . I was suggesting combining all of these into just one class with a 2:00 minute brackout. Let the breakout be the mitigating factor as each type/class of plane would race against the other. Not alot of ARFs means many would feel the need to scratch build or build from plans, thus making it difficult to get sufficient numbers of entries to try to run multiple classes -- at least initially. Think how you'd feel if you built a biplane, but no one else did, so you go through all that work, and then show up, only to find you don't have a valid class. Allow all, for the initial event, and based on participation and feedback, then revise for potential later events.
Just my opinion.
07-26-2015, 07:17 PM
#16
Dont limit motors
forget break out - lets race!!
I get the idea and safety purposes of the B/o. But why create another class with it?
Lets find some where with set backs that will allow speeds not restricted by safety concerns.
Just my opinion - I want to race not pace.
forget break out - lets race!!
I get the idea and safety purposes of the B/o. But why create another class with it?
Lets find some where with set backs that will allow speeds not restricted by safety concerns.
Just my opinion - I want to race not pace.
07-27-2015, 10:01 AM
#17
Dont limit motors
forget break out - lets race!!
I get the idea and safety purposes of the B/o. But why create another class with it?
Lets find some where with set backs that will allow speeds not restricted by safety concerns.
Just my opinion - I want to race not pace.
forget break out - lets race!!
I get the idea and safety purposes of the B/o. But why create another class with it?
Lets find some where with set backs that will allow speeds not restricted by safety concerns.
Just my opinion - I want to race not pace.
07-27-2015, 10:48 AM
#18
I dont like the break out either but i do think for the intent I would like to see a break out or some from of limitation should be in place. Racing anything to see who is the fastest will force out of this from the start as those with money will have the fastest planes. I would also like to see 6 to 10 planes up at once also.
07-27-2015, 02:27 PM
#19
I have had a few guys ready to race the warbirds with us, until I told them there was a B/O. That killed the deal for them. From my influence of racing, there are more anti B/O guys than the opposite. But everybody wants their own thing.
If you regulated it with specific ARFs (no custom planes) and engine ranges, like class A uses 115, class B 91 , class C uses 70 (these are just 4 stroke examples) then let em race, the costs control themselves.
Seems the manufacturers have listened to the distributors over the last few years and we have seen several F1 type planes made available.
So Id think there could be a good variety to choose from. You select the kits or start a kit list that is approved. Add to it as necessary based on availability and new planes.
Would this class draw 60 pilots- no. But would you want to?
If you made this a stand alone race, then yea, you would, but if you added this to an already established race, then you wouldnt want too many entries.
As far as Q40 and Q500, most places are 3 pole races. I love the 2 pole Q500 stuff we do here in Utah, but I havent heard of a lot of those type courses.
6 to 10 planes at a time racing would be great for the economy Jeff and you may become the sales rep for these distributors.
5 is plenty and keeps things moving fast enough.
Could you see 10 planes on a short course- it would be hilarious. How would you like to be a pylon judge or pickel pusher?
You are thinking a good line of thought here, so just keep it going and I would join you, as long as I get to win, other wise Im taking my toys and going home.
If you regulated it with specific ARFs (no custom planes) and engine ranges, like class A uses 115, class B 91 , class C uses 70 (these are just 4 stroke examples) then let em race, the costs control themselves.
Seems the manufacturers have listened to the distributors over the last few years and we have seen several F1 type planes made available.
So Id think there could be a good variety to choose from. You select the kits or start a kit list that is approved. Add to it as necessary based on availability and new planes.
Would this class draw 60 pilots- no. But would you want to?
If you made this a stand alone race, then yea, you would, but if you added this to an already established race, then you wouldnt want too many entries.
As far as Q40 and Q500, most places are 3 pole races. I love the 2 pole Q500 stuff we do here in Utah, but I havent heard of a lot of those type courses.
6 to 10 planes at a time racing would be great for the economy Jeff and you may become the sales rep for these distributors.
5 is plenty and keeps things moving fast enough.
Could you see 10 planes on a short course- it would be hilarious. How would you like to be a pylon judge or pickel pusher?
You are thinking a good line of thought here, so just keep it going and I would join you, as long as I get to win, other wise Im taking my toys and going home.
07-27-2015, 02:47 PM
#20
One of the dreams I have the Warbird Champ race I am promoting is to develop a class called Platinum. Where we remove the B/O and let the guys race.
If everyone chooses a Mustang variant and a YS115, well that must be because they are the fastest combos and those people want to go fastest.
If someone finds a different combo, then that will be the next band wagon set up. The Warbird racing is great because of all the SWRA, Sams, triangle Series and RCPRO efforts over the years. But lets not stop the evolution of what it has become.
I envision in the Warbird Nats: Bronze @ 2:25, Silver @ 2:00 , Gold @ 1:30 and Platinum at no B/O.
But that the lens by which I view the world of racing.
If everyone chooses a Mustang variant and a YS115, well that must be because they are the fastest combos and those people want to go fastest.
If someone finds a different combo, then that will be the next band wagon set up. The Warbird racing is great because of all the SWRA, Sams, triangle Series and RCPRO efforts over the years. But lets not stop the evolution of what it has become.
I envision in the Warbird Nats: Bronze @ 2:25, Silver @ 2:00 , Gold @ 1:30 and Platinum at no B/O.
But that the lens by which I view the world of racing.
07-27-2015, 03:42 PM
#21
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I don't expect to be racing much in the next few years, but I would love to do this, I would like to put a 91 or 115 in to the nemesis and see what she can do.
Personally I think the best chance of success right now is to have a single 2 day race and set it up like the championship race or the ash fast.
I am going to be following this closely.
See you at the weekend guys.
Personally I think the best chance of success right now is to have a single 2 day race and set it up like the championship race or the ash fast.
I am going to be following this closely.
See you at the weekend guys.
07-27-2015, 06:30 PM
#22
Marty I want to see war birds at the NATS also. Just trying to continue promoting the sport of planes and glow engines. I like to race and I like to race anything lol.
Yes i would plan on this being on a different race weekend than the warbird stuff. My goal which will never be done is to race three days just like reno with different classes like at reno. also if had the room fly a 4 pole race where we all are inside the race course and the pilots are on 50 foot race platform so we can see the whole course and have a pace plane.....
ok I am back now keep bringing the ideas guys and lets try to get something going.
Yes i would plan on this being on a different race weekend than the warbird stuff. My goal which will never be done is to race three days just like reno with different classes like at reno. also if had the room fly a 4 pole race where we all are inside the race course and the pilots are on 50 foot race platform so we can see the whole course and have a pace plane.....
ok I am back now keep bringing the ideas guys and lets try to get something going.
08-03-2015, 02:39 PM
#25
I would like to do a jet race also but the problem is that more than likely will not happen in Cali as its to dry. A crash and fire would be to dangerous. Now maybe out at madera it would be good. guys are already spend 10000 on a single unlimited plane so why not. Marty????