What is considered SCALE
12-29-2015, 05:47 PM
#51
Yeah,
LOL, don't ask about "scale" anymore. It tends to make some folks squirm.
And by the way,
I'll stack up the lines on my P-40 against any of the Vendettas, Stilettos, and the others that have been obviously, (needlessly by the way,) "optimized" for racing.
Oh yeah, HUGE discrepancies here. What freakin ever. Care to take another shot?
LOL, don't ask about "scale" anymore. It tends to make some folks squirm.
And by the way,
I'll stack up the lines on my P-40 against any of the Vendettas, Stilettos, and the others that have been obviously, (needlessly by the way,) "optimized" for racing.
Oh yeah, HUGE discrepancies here. What freakin ever. Care to take another shot?
12-29-2015, 06:02 PM
#53
Yeah,
LOL, don't ask about "scale" anymore. It tends to make some folks squirm.
And by the way,
I'll stack up the lines on my P-40 against any of the Vendettas, Stilettos, and the others that have been obviously, (needlessly by the way,) "optimized" for racing.
Oh yeah, HUGE discrepancies here. What freakin ever. Care to take another shot?
LOL, don't ask about "scale" anymore. It tends to make some folks squirm.
And by the way,
I'll stack up the lines on my P-40 against any of the Vendettas, Stilettos, and the others that have been obviously, (needlessly by the way,) "optimized" for racing.
Oh yeah, HUGE discrepancies here. What freakin ever. Care to take another shot?
HA! There I said it.
12-29-2015, 09:15 PM
#57
However, it does illustrate the point of just where would we put the lid back on the can of worms? Tommy's P-40 is one of the more scale appearing airplanes out there yet we are still able to pick it apart. Kinda like saying we are just going to remove a few bricks of the dam to let some water through. It always seems to end up being more then originally intended.
12-30-2015, 11:34 AM
#58
Tommy's p40 wing isnt correct as the tip are skinnier and the wing is longer, the horizontal doesn't match either, the cowl is skinnier. His plane doesn't have a scale prop either. See nit picking can go on all day long. Now I don't care one bit until tommy says other planes are not scale. Tommy we are trying to grow the sport of warbird racing not kill it so leave others alone. If their planes fits the rules and approved by the CD then it is a mute subject.
12-30-2015, 05:11 PM
#61
See now,
All that's happening here is people with an obvious agenda are taking things to the nth degree just to try and justify their position.
I was really hoping to see more mature behavior, but I guess that's expecting too much from a certain crowd.
Picture this wise guys,
If a full scale version of the plane you are modeling flew by you at the Reno Air Races, and then your model flew by scaled up to the same size, would they obviously be seen as the same airplane? And NO I'm not talking about the paint scheme or labels calling out the name of the plane.
I feel safe in saying that, yes, my P-40, FW-190 and now especially the J2M3, would plainly be called out for what they are with no problems.
Can you say the same for your planes?
The question was asked "What is Scale?" in this pylon racing sub forum called "Scale Racing"
Pretty sad this has had to happen in here at all.
I have been advised in this thread to go and find my fun elsewhere.
Sorry but I had already found it in our Warbird racing series and SAMs.
Perhaps those that suggested that to me should reconsider where their fun really is.
Read the sig below..
Dropping mic
All that's happening here is people with an obvious agenda are taking things to the nth degree just to try and justify their position.
I was really hoping to see more mature behavior, but I guess that's expecting too much from a certain crowd.
Picture this wise guys,
If a full scale version of the plane you are modeling flew by you at the Reno Air Races, and then your model flew by scaled up to the same size, would they obviously be seen as the same airplane? And NO I'm not talking about the paint scheme or labels calling out the name of the plane.
I feel safe in saying that, yes, my P-40, FW-190 and now especially the J2M3, would plainly be called out for what they are with no problems.
Can you say the same for your planes?
The question was asked "What is Scale?" in this pylon racing sub forum called "Scale Racing"
Pretty sad this has had to happen in here at all.
I have been advised in this thread to go and find my fun elsewhere.
Sorry but I had already found it in our Warbird racing series and SAMs.
Perhaps those that suggested that to me should reconsider where their fun really is.
Read the sig below..
Dropping mic
12-31-2015, 03:46 PM
#63
I loaded up the Vendetta 3 views, as well as my latest Vendetta and the a Q40 Vendetta for comparison.
I say mine looks and fits into the spirit of what we are doing, and say the Q40 doesnt.
Will mine win a scale contest- absolutely not, but none of ours will.
As a CD for warbird events, I would say yes every time to a plane similar to my scale and not to a plane similar to that Q40.
Now I am not a builder, and builders tend to hold the bar higher on scale appearances. Maybe after I build the Tsunami Im getting from Tim, I will change my mind of my idea of acceptable scale. But for now I hold to my opinion that my plane meets the intent of scale warbird racing
For what its worth I agree with Tommy that we dont want to end up looking like the Q40 model. But what is too far? He feels mine is already there. I dont. We would all agree the Q40 is too far. I believe he is simply asking for a fence to keep these from becoming what that Q40 is. I agree with that.
I lay these 3 pics side by side so you can see where some of us are coming from. When you are used to seeing a Q40 type planes, the Vendetta I have doesnt look bad at all. Its about your perspective and bar height you have personally.
I say mine looks and fits into the spirit of what we are doing, and say the Q40 doesnt.
Will mine win a scale contest- absolutely not, but none of ours will.
As a CD for warbird events, I would say yes every time to a plane similar to my scale and not to a plane similar to that Q40.
Now I am not a builder, and builders tend to hold the bar higher on scale appearances. Maybe after I build the Tsunami Im getting from Tim, I will change my mind of my idea of acceptable scale. But for now I hold to my opinion that my plane meets the intent of scale warbird racing
For what its worth I agree with Tommy that we dont want to end up looking like the Q40 model. But what is too far? He feels mine is already there. I dont. We would all agree the Q40 is too far. I believe he is simply asking for a fence to keep these from becoming what that Q40 is. I agree with that.
I lay these 3 pics side by side so you can see where some of us are coming from. When you are used to seeing a Q40 type planes, the Vendetta I have doesnt look bad at all. Its about your perspective and bar height you have personally.
01-01-2016, 09:27 AM
#64
It has nothing to do with my personal desires.
It has to do with established rules and many years of the competitors complying with those rules with very little problem
When problems as this popped up, they were quashed.
I am going to invoke the name of the Great Kahuna himself, God be with his soul, Jerry Votaw would have told you to take those extreme examples of stretching the rules and stuff them. I do believe he would have called them all manner of ugly plus a few more choice words.
So, do you all want to race Scale Warbirds or not?
It has to do with established rules and many years of the competitors complying with those rules with very little problem
When problems as this popped up, they were quashed.
I am going to invoke the name of the Great Kahuna himself, God be with his soul, Jerry Votaw would have told you to take those extreme examples of stretching the rules and stuff them. I do believe he would have called them all manner of ugly plus a few more choice words.
So, do you all want to race Scale Warbirds or not?
01-01-2016, 11:27 AM
#65
It has everything to do with your personal opinion. The planes are within the rules or the CD's wouldnt allow them. Cd's from all the races we did last year all agree these planes meet their rules. Its you and you alone who publicly disagree. You are the minority putting you in a position to have to scream louder and louder to no avail, yet still you cry foul. You feel you have the only opinion that is valid. My posted pics speak for themselves. You keep building and racing what you "think" is scale and we will all do the same. You keep voicing your opinion and we will ours. I just hope there is respect shown and not childish attempts to use disrespectful ploys to belittle those of different opinions. I personally dont have to travel to Sams to race. I do it cause I love the competition and the racers there. You Tommy, are reasons why I stay away from certain places. Im all for different opinions, but not when it gets ugly- its then , no longer worth the effort to race at those places.
01-01-2016, 11:38 AM
#66
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It has nothing to do with my personal desires.
It has to do with established rules and many years of the competitors complying with those rules with very little problem
When problems as this popped up, they were quashed.
I am going to invoke the name of the Great Kahuna himself, God be with his soul, Jerry Votaw would have told you to take those extreme examples of stretching the rules and stuff them. I do believe he would have called them all manner of ugly plus a few more choice words.
So, do you all want to race Scale Warbirds or not?
It has to do with established rules and many years of the competitors complying with those rules with very little problem
When problems as this popped up, they were quashed.
I am going to invoke the name of the Great Kahuna himself, God be with his soul, Jerry Votaw would have told you to take those extreme examples of stretching the rules and stuff them. I do believe he would have called them all manner of ugly plus a few more choice words.
So, do you all want to race Scale Warbirds or not?
I still miss Jerry terribly.
Jeff, I get that you are the starter of this thread. You may never fly with me until you admit that you have known all along what the spirit of scale is. Please stop being so facetious.
Chuck
Last edited by C_Roundy; 01-02-2016 at 08:37 PM.
01-01-2016, 03:20 PM
#67
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You just crossed a BAD line Marty. You sir, are either ignorant, or arrogant, or both. Tom R. is one of the most Non-judgemental people I've ever met in my sport in 40+ years. Shame on you for trying to malign him! SHAME On You!
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could just spit .
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could just spit .
Last edited by C_Roundy; 01-02-2016 at 08:38 PM.
01-01-2016, 04:06 PM
#68
Chuck, you haven't been to a race in a long time and you also do not know how this is warbird racing is growing and going the route that Tommy want's in today RC hobby will not promote this.
Chuck I did have a lot of respect for you but you crossed the line by calling people names.
Chuck you also do not know the whole story behind all this so before you start with you comments you should know the facts.
Chuck Marty is not doing what you said at all. The planes that Tommy keep bringing are already approved by the SAMS rules and the other racing venues rules.
I want to promote this hobby and warbird racing. The set of rules in place now have been working and the racing is growing so why mess it up. If you want to go all out and race a super scale plane then go right ahead. Don't get mad when others don't. I like scale airplanes and if I have the time I will build one and race with it. What 97% of the people do though is they do not want to put a bunch of time into a plane and have a mid air in first race or like some crash it on first flight.
Everyone has a different opinion on what is a scale airplane. we could go on an on with this. My opinion is that the World Models T-34 isn't very scale looking at all. It is probably one of the biggest non scale airplanes racing. I don't hear Tommy or anyone else complaining about this plane. It is in the rules now but for a reason to grow the sport of racing. Once a guy tries it he will move up to a little better looking plane. The races now have up to 65 or so racers. some fly all three classes like I do and most fly in two. at a minimum that is 130 planes with their back ups. there could be over 200 planes in the two day races. How long would it take to "judge" a plane to see if it scale? maybe could do in one day. Where would the man power for this come from? Who would be a judge that isn't partial to one guy? What happens when a guy build a plane to come to his first race and the "Scale Judge" says that isn't scale enough. That guy would probably never race again. Another problem is a two day race with one practice day before the race takes flying away from club members that don't race. To add another day on to that for "scale judging" just would not work. In the past if may have been that way but there wasn't as many racers or so I heard.
Of the planes racing today none of them would be "scale" enough to enter a real "scale" contest. There are a few that get close and Chuck your plane might be "scale" enough as you have put a large amount of time in to it and it looks very nice but you have never raced it or won't race it today because its your pride and joy.
Chuck I challenge you to come out and race your plane in the next warbird race.
Chuck in your response to me not being allowed to fly with you, lol when was the last time you flew a model plane?
By C_Roundy "HHMMMM, Certainly. Here is a slice of real Jerry Votaw. Once upon a time I asked Jerry himself to assure me that I would be race legal FOREVER if we molded a large VERY scale "Rare Bear". This is what he said to me: "Chuck, If anybody EVER tries to give you a problem for flying the dead scale airplane that I know you and Darren will build for MY races, you send them to me."
I still miss Jerry terribly.
Jeff, I get that you are the starter of this thread. You may never fly with me until you admit that you have known all along what the spirit of scale is. Please stop talking like a facetious jackass.
Chuck
You just crossed a BAD line Marty. You sir, are either ignorant, or arrogant, or both. Tom R. is one of the most Non-judgemental people I've ever met in my sport in 40+ years. Shame on you for trying to malign him! SHAME On You!
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could spit on all your future endevours."
Chuck I did have a lot of respect for you but you crossed the line by calling people names.
Chuck you also do not know the whole story behind all this so before you start with you comments you should know the facts.
Chuck Marty is not doing what you said at all. The planes that Tommy keep bringing are already approved by the SAMS rules and the other racing venues rules.
I want to promote this hobby and warbird racing. The set of rules in place now have been working and the racing is growing so why mess it up. If you want to go all out and race a super scale plane then go right ahead. Don't get mad when others don't. I like scale airplanes and if I have the time I will build one and race with it. What 97% of the people do though is they do not want to put a bunch of time into a plane and have a mid air in first race or like some crash it on first flight.
Everyone has a different opinion on what is a scale airplane. we could go on an on with this. My opinion is that the World Models T-34 isn't very scale looking at all. It is probably one of the biggest non scale airplanes racing. I don't hear Tommy or anyone else complaining about this plane. It is in the rules now but for a reason to grow the sport of racing. Once a guy tries it he will move up to a little better looking plane. The races now have up to 65 or so racers. some fly all three classes like I do and most fly in two. at a minimum that is 130 planes with their back ups. there could be over 200 planes in the two day races. How long would it take to "judge" a plane to see if it scale? maybe could do in one day. Where would the man power for this come from? Who would be a judge that isn't partial to one guy? What happens when a guy build a plane to come to his first race and the "Scale Judge" says that isn't scale enough. That guy would probably never race again. Another problem is a two day race with one practice day before the race takes flying away from club members that don't race. To add another day on to that for "scale judging" just would not work. In the past if may have been that way but there wasn't as many racers or so I heard.
Of the planes racing today none of them would be "scale" enough to enter a real "scale" contest. There are a few that get close and Chuck your plane might be "scale" enough as you have put a large amount of time in to it and it looks very nice but you have never raced it or won't race it today because its your pride and joy.
Chuck I challenge you to come out and race your plane in the next warbird race.
Chuck in your response to me not being allowed to fly with you, lol when was the last time you flew a model plane?
By C_Roundy "HHMMMM, Certainly. Here is a slice of real Jerry Votaw. Once upon a time I asked Jerry himself to assure me that I would be race legal FOREVER if we molded a large VERY scale "Rare Bear". This is what he said to me: "Chuck, If anybody EVER tries to give you a problem for flying the dead scale airplane that I know you and Darren will build for MY races, you send them to me."
I still miss Jerry terribly.
Jeff, I get that you are the starter of this thread. You may never fly with me until you admit that you have known all along what the spirit of scale is. Please stop talking like a facetious jackass.
Chuck
You just crossed a BAD line Marty. You sir, are either ignorant, or arrogant, or both. Tom R. is one of the most Non-judgemental people I've ever met in my sport in 40+ years. Shame on you for trying to malign him! SHAME On You!
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could spit on all your future endevours."
01-01-2016, 04:58 PM
#69
You just crossed a BAD line Marty. You sir, are either ignorant, or arrogant, or both. Tom R. is one of the most Non-judgemental people I've ever met in my sport in 40+ years. Shame on you for trying to malign him! SHAME On You!
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could spit on all your future endevours.
Your proposed National event does not entitle you to trample people's voices.
I have been a supporter all along, but I stop short of supporting hubris'
I'm so angry with you right now, I could spit on all your future endevours.
Wow, nothing gets your point across quite like calling people names eh Chuck? This will be my 6th season racing with SAM's club. Even in that relatively short time I have noticed the changes in airplanes. Chuck correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall seeing you at any of the races I attended. Things have changed and they have done so because the majority of racers are what are driving the changes. Look at how pattern has changed, look at how much other forms of racing has changed, compare an old F1 airplane to the current Q40 or even a Scat Cat of 25 years ago against a Viper. Like it or not things change. In this case the airplanes have evolved into what 99% of the participants want to fly. Once again I consider all posters in this thread as friends ( except Chuck, never met the man but after this not too interested in doing so ) but being a friend also means telling your friend the truth. Today that truth is quit complaining and if you are really this passionate about the subject then submit an official rules change request to the SAM's board. Get as many people to back you first. Complaining never solves anything, take action through the correct channels.
Chuck, from my point of veiw you really have no dog in this hunt and are using this thread to grind an ax with Jeff. If you want me to put any validity to your voice then show up in April with an airplane.
01-01-2016, 05:18 PM
#70
Chuck
I appreciate you joining this thread, as I always welcome others opinions, as they are always allowed to have them.
When I state to Tommy, that he is the reason I stay away from places where people like him are, is because he is on here promoting himself, his ideas and opinions instead of the venue. And he has every right to do that if he chooses. Its all about his opinions with no regard to how it impacts the other racers. Our planes are accepted and approved, so we come out and want to enjoy the races , but instead we now get beat down by a guy who wont accept the CD's decisions to allow our planes. That is called self serving. Your criticism of me is appreciated as sometimes I am ignorant but I hope never arrogant. My assessment of "what" Tommy is doing on line is point on. If he or you don't like it , it doesnt change the fact that it is still a point on assessment of what he is accomplishing by voicing his opinion after the issue has already been resolved by all the CD's. I have not maligned him or trampled his voice, as you state. I like Tommy. We pitted side by side at the last Trashman/YS Race and I totally enjoyed him. I think he is a great guy with more knowledge in RC than me. But his posts here on RCU have all been addressed, reviewed by the leadership and resolved, and we have moved on. I simply stated that when someone offers an opinion , and it is refuted, that person for the sake of the event, the rest of the racers and people involved, should leave that alone and not hinder the growth and future participation of that event.
Your attacks on Jeff and now on me simply display that only your opinion matters. Only you guys get a say.
So I will honor that and let you have your say, and I will come out and race my scale warbird approved by the CD's and enjoy those who enjoy racing warbirds with me.
I appreciate you joining this thread, as I always welcome others opinions, as they are always allowed to have them.
When I state to Tommy, that he is the reason I stay away from places where people like him are, is because he is on here promoting himself, his ideas and opinions instead of the venue. And he has every right to do that if he chooses. Its all about his opinions with no regard to how it impacts the other racers. Our planes are accepted and approved, so we come out and want to enjoy the races , but instead we now get beat down by a guy who wont accept the CD's decisions to allow our planes. That is called self serving. Your criticism of me is appreciated as sometimes I am ignorant but I hope never arrogant. My assessment of "what" Tommy is doing on line is point on. If he or you don't like it , it doesnt change the fact that it is still a point on assessment of what he is accomplishing by voicing his opinion after the issue has already been resolved by all the CD's. I have not maligned him or trampled his voice, as you state. I like Tommy. We pitted side by side at the last Trashman/YS Race and I totally enjoyed him. I think he is a great guy with more knowledge in RC than me. But his posts here on RCU have all been addressed, reviewed by the leadership and resolved, and we have moved on. I simply stated that when someone offers an opinion , and it is refuted, that person for the sake of the event, the rest of the racers and people involved, should leave that alone and not hinder the growth and future participation of that event.
Your attacks on Jeff and now on me simply display that only your opinion matters. Only you guys get a say.
So I will honor that and let you have your say, and I will come out and race my scale warbird approved by the CD's and enjoy those who enjoy racing warbirds with me.
01-02-2016, 08:53 PM
#74
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I was going to comment in this thread but I was not sure if it was ok to bring my comfort animal (which is a goat by the way), adult coloring books, and warm milk and cookies. This thread is so harsh, #scaleplanesmatter.
01-02-2016, 09:49 PM
#75
Yeah. It's pretty tough watching my friends go at each other this way. Especially when this is never going to result as having been a productive "conversation." Thanks for a little levity, Jake!