FAA Registration and RCPRO Racing 2016
01-31-2016, 03:58 PM
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FAA Registration and RCPRO Racing 2016
Next RCPRO Race is here in Tucson on Feb 20th. As you know we are required by the FAA to register our drones (what a joke) by Feb 19, 2016. Safety inspections as usual with current AMA Card will (as usual) be conducted and FAA registration will be required to race. . If your not registered, you won't be able to race. I like racing so reluctantly I went on line and got my new FAA number. Hopefully the AMA will get their point across and we won't have to deal with this insanity, but until then we have to play by the rules. It's only 5 bucks and 5 minutes time. Do it. And bring a Gold Racer cuz me and my buddy Steve are gona kick some butt.........
02-01-2016, 01:09 AM
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No decals Marty. Name , Address , and AMA # is all that's required there. AMA Magazine is good source for that. As long as you have you FAA number on your person, I don't care if it's just written down on a match book cover. I'll double check with the CD and make sure Marty. I'll be doing the inspections so............you know me!!!
02-01-2016, 02:30 AM
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Dan,
Good advice on FAA registration to be "legal" for this race and beyond. Note that the AMA Safety Code requires your name, address or AMA number to be affixed to your model-this is as per Section 2: f of the Code.
I recall at a previous AMA NATS (very long ago) that you had to have this info on your model during processing even though your AMA number was painted into the finish- this was for Form I and QM. Someone provided neat AMA labels which satisfied this requirement and we were good to race. Good luck in Tucson and "take no prisoners".
Rgds,
Art ARRO- former pylon racer now flying turbine jets.
Good advice on FAA registration to be "legal" for this race and beyond. Note that the AMA Safety Code requires your name, address or AMA number to be affixed to your model-this is as per Section 2: f of the Code.
I recall at a previous AMA NATS (very long ago) that you had to have this info on your model during processing even though your AMA number was painted into the finish- this was for Form I and QM. Someone provided neat AMA labels which satisfied this requirement and we were good to race. Good luck in Tucson and "take no prisoners".
Rgds,
Art ARRO- former pylon racer now flying turbine jets.
02-01-2016, 06:26 AM
#5
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Don't forget - the feds are requiring that the registration number, be it their number or the AMA number be visible without the use of tools - so if it's a label inside the plane that you can only see if you unbolt the wing, it's not sufficient.
What a pain..
What a pain..
02-01-2016, 08:29 AM
#6
I'm sorry but now it is mandatory to follow the illeagal ploy put out by the FAA in order to race even though the AMA has clearly stated they will not require enforcement of FAA registration? In 2012 Congerss passed a law that the FAA can not govern model aircraft. I guess my plans to attend an RCPRO race this year will change. For the record, I'm not nessisarily against registration if that would be all. It the fact that they are using registration to circumvent the 2012 law by throwing in the agreement that we will not fly above 400'. For some that may not be a big deal but others like myself that also fly pattern, IMAC and soaring it is a big deal. For now I will not register, IMO everyone should wait until the two lawsuits currently against the FAA on this matter have been played out.
02-01-2016, 03:43 PM
#7
This is the way I see this as I have recieved emails from the AMA on this subject:
The AMA has already sent emails to its members encouraging them to comply with the FAA and register. They had hopes to avoid this and even tried to get them to allow us to use our AMA numbers in lieu of a new FAA number, but all those efforts failed. In spite of previous rulings by congress, the FAA has decided it will act with in its own parameters and REQUIRE this by Feb 19 or 20, I forget. So with that said, everyone flying a model over .55 lbs will have to do this. Even the AMA has sent emails giving the green light to do this before the date that ended for "free" registration. After that dead line date in Feb, you will have to have an FAA # , not on a card, but on your plane, every plane over the weight limit set by the FAA, accessible with out the use of any tool, and a copy of your cert whether it be printed or on your phone.
The AMA has already sent emails to its members encouraging them to comply with the FAA and register. They had hopes to avoid this and even tried to get them to allow us to use our AMA numbers in lieu of a new FAA number, but all those efforts failed. In spite of previous rulings by congress, the FAA has decided it will act with in its own parameters and REQUIRE this by Feb 19 or 20, I forget. So with that said, everyone flying a model over .55 lbs will have to do this. Even the AMA has sent emails giving the green light to do this before the date that ended for "free" registration. After that dead line date in Feb, you will have to have an FAA # , not on a card, but on your plane, every plane over the weight limit set by the FAA, accessible with out the use of any tool, and a copy of your cert whether it be printed or on your phone.
02-01-2016, 05:01 PM
#8
So can we put our phone with a picture of the FAA number on screen on the top of our wing for the inspection piece. (joking)
I for one have wondered about the adding of the FAA number on my plane. I have seen conflicting reports on adding the FAA piece. I may just add to the inside of my planes. I prefer to use tools to take on and off the wings but if we have to get technical I am pretty sure I can remove my wing with no tools required. Heck, done it a few times when I didn't want to already. (not joking... and was usually followed by a few choice words)
I for one have wondered about the adding of the FAA number on my plane. I have seen conflicting reports on adding the FAA piece. I may just add to the inside of my planes. I prefer to use tools to take on and off the wings but if we have to get technical I am pretty sure I can remove my wing with no tools required. Heck, done it a few times when I didn't want to already. (not joking... and was usually followed by a few choice words)
02-01-2016, 05:25 PM
#9
I only go by what the AMA is telling me and not what threads or posts are saying.
If you are an AMA member, you too have been getting these emails, i encourage you to re read them. I have already printed up my decals and have them ready to go on planes for sanctioned events.
Speed, it isnt any fault of RCPRO, they are simply complying with what I feel the Law will be in Feb for their race date. Even the AMA has green lighted the registering process. In that process it is required to apply these numbers to your planes.
Dan is simply following and being ready for what will be the law by the time of the Tucson's race.
He is acting responsible and preparing the racers coming.
I would hope you wouldnt hold that against them.
I am pretty sure the April Race in Sac will end up in the same boat.
To be clear, I have not yet been instructed by the AMA to force this or implement this at a sanctioned event as a Race CD. How ever this is a law the FAA will be requiring whether its a sanctioned event or not, so I assume most CD's will be requiring this.
If you are an AMA member, you too have been getting these emails, i encourage you to re read them. I have already printed up my decals and have them ready to go on planes for sanctioned events.
Speed, it isnt any fault of RCPRO, they are simply complying with what I feel the Law will be in Feb for their race date. Even the AMA has green lighted the registering process. In that process it is required to apply these numbers to your planes.
Dan is simply following and being ready for what will be the law by the time of the Tucson's race.
He is acting responsible and preparing the racers coming.
I would hope you wouldnt hold that against them.
I am pretty sure the April Race in Sac will end up in the same boat.
To be clear, I have not yet been instructed by the AMA to force this or implement this at a sanctioned event as a Race CD. How ever this is a law the FAA will be requiring whether its a sanctioned event or not, so I assume most CD's will be requiring this.
02-01-2016, 08:02 PM
#10
Marty, my issue is that by registering I am agreeing to not fly over 400'. Not a big deal for racing but I do other events that can't be flown without going over 400'. As of right now none of these other events require registration. So should I register and scrap my pattern, IMAC and sailplanes or not register and quit racing? I like the idea of scrapping one relatively cheap race plane as opposed to other expensive airplanes.
02-01-2016, 08:21 PM
#11
Shawn
All I was saying is dont be mad at RCPRO. It seemed like you would avoid their races because they were requiring what the AMA told all of us to do?
But onto the real facts of the whole thing....How will they enforce the 400' rule. How can you know you are over 400'.
Without telemetry this is a guessing game.
The point of registration is to try and harness the quad copters that created this issue and only allow professionals with liscenses to legally make money from this..
Isnt there already a "ceiling" set by the AMA?
Arent we already told by the AMA to do or not do what most of these FAA rules demand?
Unfortunately one day all sanctioned events will more than likely require this stupid compliance.
The FAA needs to make it look like they are doing something to corral the "drone" issue as they call it or "quad copter" issue as anyone with a brain would call it. I seriously doubt they intend to do anything against planes but didnt want to figure this out so they just through a blanket law over the whole industry. Now we all fly "drones". Hence we must all comply. There wasnt that easy they say.
Truth is the rule/law is a technicality without much of a chance to enforce most of their rules other than flying over public places etc, which is what the rule is really all about. When I registered I agreed to put a number on a plane they call a drone to satisfy their blanket control of quad copters. I have no idea when I hit 400' and dont much care either. I doubt I will see any FAA police in my neck of the woods. Heck I fly within 1000' of an airport, but have the cities permission to do so. I was even given a transceiver one time so I could monitor traffic as I flew a giant scale racer off the main runway. I dont see sail planes going away because of this neither do i see the FAA going crazy over their breaking of the law of a 400' ceiling. Its all about the quads that the hobby stores sell to every non AMA client.
All I was saying is dont be mad at RCPRO. It seemed like you would avoid their races because they were requiring what the AMA told all of us to do?
But onto the real facts of the whole thing....How will they enforce the 400' rule. How can you know you are over 400'.
Without telemetry this is a guessing game.
The point of registration is to try and harness the quad copters that created this issue and only allow professionals with liscenses to legally make money from this..
Isnt there already a "ceiling" set by the AMA?
Arent we already told by the AMA to do or not do what most of these FAA rules demand?
Unfortunately one day all sanctioned events will more than likely require this stupid compliance.
The FAA needs to make it look like they are doing something to corral the "drone" issue as they call it or "quad copter" issue as anyone with a brain would call it. I seriously doubt they intend to do anything against planes but didnt want to figure this out so they just through a blanket law over the whole industry. Now we all fly "drones". Hence we must all comply. There wasnt that easy they say.
Truth is the rule/law is a technicality without much of a chance to enforce most of their rules other than flying over public places etc, which is what the rule is really all about. When I registered I agreed to put a number on a plane they call a drone to satisfy their blanket control of quad copters. I have no idea when I hit 400' and dont much care either. I doubt I will see any FAA police in my neck of the woods. Heck I fly within 1000' of an airport, but have the cities permission to do so. I was even given a transceiver one time so I could monitor traffic as I flew a giant scale racer off the main runway. I dont see sail planes going away because of this neither do i see the FAA going crazy over their breaking of the law of a 400' ceiling. Its all about the quads that the hobby stores sell to every non AMA client.
02-01-2016, 10:02 PM
#12
Marty, while I agree with most of what you are saying there are some that I dont. While flying my IMAC sequence I break 1200' easily. There is no way I would be able to deny going over 400'. If registered which means I have agreed not to fly over400' and I get caught I have no case. If not registered when I appear in court I produce document 336 that clearly states the FAA has no legal right to govern the way I fly my model. Both bad senarios but I have a better defence by not agreeing to fly below 400' n the fist place. As things shake loose I may change my mind but this is the way I see it right now.
02-01-2016, 10:56 PM
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Honestly Sean, this is my philosophy on this: sign up and get your number, smile and nod, and just fly ANY altitude you want. Lets be serious here, this is a stupid law that has ZERO ability to be enforced. There is no federal model elevation police that will stand out there with a tape measure and a ladder to hand out tickets. The whole law is feel good BS to address the proliferation of those dumb ass toy drones with cameras that every wannabe R/C mouth breather buys at Fry's so they can spy on their neighbors back window. Its political kabuki theater, just like the TSA at the airports. That agency is packed with paste-eating numbskulls that force cavity searches on 80 year olds, while waving through ISIS members through the security checkpoints. In all practical arguments it is stupid and innefective, but the *******s in Washington, that have zero understanding or concern for the hobby, can pound their chests on the fact they got legislation passed. With that said, just get your number and never be concerned with it ever again, no legitimate member of the hobby is going to hound you over some rule that EVERY AMA MEMBER knows is just plain stupid!
02-02-2016, 05:10 AM
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Sorry guys, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, but that's the way it's going to be, at least at Timpa. And yes Marty I will be looking for the # somewhere on the plane. It's a simple task compared to building the model, so if it's not there, we'll ;hand you a magic marker and you can write it down in one of the wheel wells or something.
We love are flying field BUT WE DON'T OWN IT. Can't take the chance of losing guys. So throw on some numbers and LETS RACE.
We love are flying field BUT WE DON'T OWN IT. Can't take the chance of losing guys. So throw on some numbers and LETS RACE.
02-02-2016, 07:39 AM
#16
Next RCPRO Race is here in Tucson on Feb 20th. As you know we are required by the FAA to register our drones (what a joke) by Feb 19, 2016. Safety inspections as usual with current AMA Card will (as usual) be conducted and FAA registration will be required to race. . If your not registered, you won't be able to race. I like racing so reluctantly I went on line and got my new FAA number. Hopefully the AMA will get their point across and we won't have to deal with this insanity, but until then we have to play by the rules. It's only 5 bucks and 5 minutes time. Do it. And bring a Gold Racer cuz me and my buddy Steve are gona kick some butt.........
Finally some one with a brain ... Don't F with the FAA they have made it as simple and leaint as possible ...Non compliance will only bring down the Hammer on all R/C TOY Flying ... Believe Me it can get a lot worse. If congress is afraid of the FAA U better be too.
02-02-2016, 08:44 AM
#17
Marty, my issue is that by registering I am agreeing to not fly over 400'. Not a big deal for racing but I do other events that can't be flown without going over 400'. As of right now none of these other events require registration. So should I register and scrap my pattern, IMAC and sailplanes or not register and quit racing? I like the idea of scrapping one relatively cheap race plane as opposed to other expensive airplanes.
02-02-2016, 09:16 AM
#18
Sorry guys, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, but that's the way it's going to be, at least at Timpa. And yes Marty I will be looking for the # somewhere on the plane. It's a simple task compared to building the model, so if it's not there, we'll ;hand you a magic marker and you can write it down in one of the wheel wells or something.
We love are flying field BUT WE DON'T OWN IT. Can't take the chance of losing guys. So throw on some numbers and LETS RACE.
We love are flying field BUT WE DON'T OWN IT. Can't take the chance of losing guys. So throw on some numbers and LETS RACE.
02-02-2016, 03:37 PM
#20
Speed,
I agree with your reasoning and am not questioning you at all. I just didnt think avoiding the RCPRO races was justified thats all.
Jakes post pretty well sums the whole thing up in my opinion. He used some words I wouldnt have, but I feel the same as he does about the whole deal. He said it very clearly.
I would wonder how the AMA is going to address the FAA with the soaring guys, Imaac guys and others who need to fly over 400' as part of their competition requirements. One would think we will soon see much more definitive clarification on things such as this.
As far as who is requiring this FAA #... the FAA is. The AMA in the beginning told us to wait. Now they have encouraged us to get them while they were free, which has passed now. Those who are organizing events after the Feb cut off date cant wait until an announcement comes, that has already come in some manner - "Get the reg and get the number and get it on the "drones" " I mean planes. So it is the AMA sending the signal to get them and get them before the Feb cut off date. These organizers for these races are just getting the word out so no one gets caught off guard. I will write the AMA and ask, as a CD, do I have to require this.
Dan, Id think pylon guys that show up that have their reg cert and FAA number assigned could probably write it on the wing color sheet if they forget to add numbers to outside of plane?
I know you probably want it at time of inspection, but no one is gonna want to write it on the outside of the plane- just a suggestion.
Its no doubt we are being over regulated
On or in my racers I now have:
AMA #
FAA #
NMPRA Number
District Number
Race Number.
I agree with your reasoning and am not questioning you at all. I just didnt think avoiding the RCPRO races was justified thats all.
Jakes post pretty well sums the whole thing up in my opinion. He used some words I wouldnt have, but I feel the same as he does about the whole deal. He said it very clearly.
I would wonder how the AMA is going to address the FAA with the soaring guys, Imaac guys and others who need to fly over 400' as part of their competition requirements. One would think we will soon see much more definitive clarification on things such as this.
As far as who is requiring this FAA #... the FAA is. The AMA in the beginning told us to wait. Now they have encouraged us to get them while they were free, which has passed now. Those who are organizing events after the Feb cut off date cant wait until an announcement comes, that has already come in some manner - "Get the reg and get the number and get it on the "drones" " I mean planes. So it is the AMA sending the signal to get them and get them before the Feb cut off date. These organizers for these races are just getting the word out so no one gets caught off guard. I will write the AMA and ask, as a CD, do I have to require this.
Dan, Id think pylon guys that show up that have their reg cert and FAA number assigned could probably write it on the wing color sheet if they forget to add numbers to outside of plane?
I know you probably want it at time of inspection, but no one is gonna want to write it on the outside of the plane- just a suggestion.
Its no doubt we are being over regulated
On or in my racers I now have:
AMA #
FAA #
NMPRA Number
District Number
Race Number.
02-02-2016, 04:07 PM
#21
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Timpa held a board meeting and voted on the issue. I'm just following their decision. I don't like it any more than you but if something did occur (a fly away into a ranchers cow or what ever) and we were not in compliance with the FAA requirement, we could lose our field; Owned by the city of Tucson for the water rights.
For those of you who don't like putting the number on your plane (me included) Just write it on your matrix color and when you remove the sticker....whaaaaa.....all gone.
At least until the next race.
I doubt very seriously if anyone is going to break the 400 ft height limit in pylon racing, we have no way of determining that anyway. The IMAC/Pattern guys will but then again how can you enforce that?
No speed, I didn't take it upon myself. Hopefully the AMA will win and we won't be bothered with this for long. I think us flyers do a damn good job policing ourselves.
For those of you who don't like putting the number on your plane (me included) Just write it on your matrix color and when you remove the sticker....whaaaaa.....all gone.
At least until the next race.
I doubt very seriously if anyone is going to break the 400 ft height limit in pylon racing, we have no way of determining that anyway. The IMAC/Pattern guys will but then again how can you enforce that?
No speed, I didn't take it upon myself. Hopefully the AMA will win and we won't be bothered with this for long. I think us flyers do a damn good job policing ourselves.
02-02-2016, 08:51 PM
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Granted I may be a little hot-headed about the issue, but I am sick of the Fed sticking its nose in places it has no business being involved, and at the same time bumbling and stumbling in the things it is obligated to do. That same government that can't balance a budget, take care of our vets, or even deal with a small fanatical Islamic-Fascist movement in Middle East thinks it has the authority under the Constitution to legislate a frickin hobby that is dominated by young kids and old men. Their "one size fits all" legislative aporoach to every issue, including this hobby, is just stupid and only makes things worse. If our Founding Fathers were alive today they would say to the Fed "What the hell are you doing? This aint your jurisdiction. Leave the people alone." I'm just tired of everything I enjoy doing being either legislated or taxed out of existence. Hey Government, get a life, get off our backs, and leave us alone!
02-02-2016, 10:28 PM
#25
Granted I may be a little hot-headed about the issue, but I am sick of the Fed sticking its nose in places it has no business being involved, and at the same time bumbling and stumbling in the things it is obligated to do. That same government that can't balance a budget, take care of our vets, or even deal with a small fanatical Islamic-Fascist movement in Middle East thinks it has the authority under the Constitution to legislate a frickin hobby that is dominated by young kids and old men. Their "one size fits all" legislative aporoach to every issue, including this hobby, is just stupid and only makes things worse. If our Founding Fathers were alive today they would say to the Fed "What the hell are you doing? This aint your jurisdiction. Leave the people alone." I'm just tired of everything I enjoy doing being either legislated or taxed out of existence. Hey Government, get a life, get off our backs, and leave us alone!
What has the FAA asked anyone to do other than register with the FAA receive a PILOT'S number carry that number with U when U fly and put the number on a piece of paper and put in on/in the plane .... JC the FEDS could have and maybe still will if they get too mush flack, They could make U get a pilots license for unmanned aircraft have an airworthiness certificate and pay $25 to register every single plane U own. Look at Part 45 of the FAR's .http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_45.html The FAA can make U comply if U keep Fkn with them.
Pray tell me just what did the AMA accomplish going to congress... A BIG FAT NOTHING. Congress is afraid of the FAA. If they weren't they would have insisted the FAA follow the Law and adhere to #336. U haven't heard a word from congress on the subject and U probably never will....No congressman or senator wants to be the guy the tells the FAA not to mess with R/C TOY DRONES and then have the Unspeakable happen. Simple as that. Our best course of action is for the AMA manufacturers wholesalers retailers all chip in and have a massive media campaign explaining who and what must carry the FAA's registration number. We have to be pro active and stop the goofball that is going to destroy our hobby with their carles an willful disregard for Federal Law concerning registration and When Where and How to fly your/their DRONES. If we don't it's no ones fault but ours, when the Flying Public and the FAA and congress demand a stop to all R/c Flying TOYS because of there perceived or heaven for bid, a real danger because the Unspeakable has happened. It All our call. U can Piss & moan & whine till hell freezes over, or get off our collective asses and try to do some thing about it before it too late.
