Giant Scale AT-6 Racing
10-15-2002, 11:24 AM
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Giant Scale AT-6 Racing
Any 101" AT-6 racers out there?
I balled up my Zimpro AT-6 this weekend on its third flight
This was my second texan to go in. The first one was a Bridi that went in about 7 years ago 2 weeks before I was to race it at the now defunct Aviation Expo in Des Moines, Iowa.
The question I have is what kits are out there that are worth a hoot for fun flying, fairly competitive (in case I want to get into racing it again) and won't set me back $2000+ for just the kit?
I would like to own the AeroSport Texan but cannot afford to lose a $2000+ kit unless someone else is footing the bill. Yea, I know how competitive that kit is but then again, aren't they flying in thier own separate class these days? I thought I heard that somewhere but the USRA rules don't mention it separately.
Some kits I am thinking of are the old Byron T-6 (whoever it is that kits it now as I forget the name), the Yellow Aircraft kit, or going the Ziroli route with a fiberglass fuselage and the rest from a kit cutter.
If there are any others out there that are nice and you would recommend to me let me know please. I also know of David Bridi's Horndog aircraft kit as I had that one first. I don't want to go with him because he burned me with shipping freight collect and that came to $400 from the west coast to Iowa which was the wrong address and my father had to ship it from Iowa to Alabama which only cost an additional $120. This was all on top of the kit price and was for shipping only.
I balled up my Zimpro AT-6 this weekend on its third flight
This was my second texan to go in. The first one was a Bridi that went in about 7 years ago 2 weeks before I was to race it at the now defunct Aviation Expo in Des Moines, Iowa.
The question I have is what kits are out there that are worth a hoot for fun flying, fairly competitive (in case I want to get into racing it again) and won't set me back $2000+ for just the kit?
I would like to own the AeroSport Texan but cannot afford to lose a $2000+ kit unless someone else is footing the bill. Yea, I know how competitive that kit is but then again, aren't they flying in thier own separate class these days? I thought I heard that somewhere but the USRA rules don't mention it separately.
Some kits I am thinking of are the old Byron T-6 (whoever it is that kits it now as I forget the name), the Yellow Aircraft kit, or going the Ziroli route with a fiberglass fuselage and the rest from a kit cutter.
If there are any others out there that are nice and you would recommend to me let me know please. I also know of David Bridi's Horndog aircraft kit as I had that one first. I don't want to go with him because he burned me with shipping freight collect and that came to $400 from the west coast to Iowa which was the wrong address and my father had to ship it from Iowa to Alabama which only cost an additional $120. This was all on top of the kit price and was for shipping only.
10-15-2002, 02:22 PM
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Giant Scale AT-6 Racing
Hi B Vial,
To be competitive you do need something like the Aerosport. Bridi is supposedly kitting an all-composite airframe that costs less, although I do not know the details. The major difference (actually, there is a lot) between a truly stock airframe AT-6 and the racers is the wing, its incidence and the wing cuff area, along with smoothing of the entire airframe. David Layne made a competitive AT-6 for some time with a foam wing and laminar wing, but I'm not sure where that kit landed. One should take care to keep any surfaces clean on a built up racer in order to mimick the composite airframes. GT Aeroproducts also makes an AT-6 kit which is a nice fuselage. You could take a GT Aeroproducts, Ziroli, etc and add a better wing and be fairly competitive with some work. Some will argue however, that for the time you put in to build and modify, you could have afforded a composite airframe. It's all the individual's choice.
All of the AT-6's are flying in the same class. Back in 1996, there were seperate classes at Madera for built up vs composite airframes, but that has disappeared.
I helped a friend put on a laminar wing on a GT Aeroproducts and he raced it at Reedley this year. Unfortunately, his motor had bad bearings and no power, so we don't know how well it will do. Below is what it looks like.
Regards,
Michael
To be competitive you do need something like the Aerosport. Bridi is supposedly kitting an all-composite airframe that costs less, although I do not know the details. The major difference (actually, there is a lot) between a truly stock airframe AT-6 and the racers is the wing, its incidence and the wing cuff area, along with smoothing of the entire airframe. David Layne made a competitive AT-6 for some time with a foam wing and laminar wing, but I'm not sure where that kit landed. One should take care to keep any surfaces clean on a built up racer in order to mimick the composite airframes. GT Aeroproducts also makes an AT-6 kit which is a nice fuselage. You could take a GT Aeroproducts, Ziroli, etc and add a better wing and be fairly competitive with some work. Some will argue however, that for the time you put in to build and modify, you could have afforded a composite airframe. It's all the individual's choice.
All of the AT-6's are flying in the same class. Back in 1996, there were seperate classes at Madera for built up vs composite airframes, but that has disappeared.
I helped a friend put on a laminar wing on a GT Aeroproducts and he raced it at Reedley this year. Unfortunately, his motor had bad bearings and no power, so we don't know how well it will do. Below is what it looks like.
Regards,
Michael
10-15-2002, 04:01 PM
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Thanks,
I have heard of GT Aeroproducts and even think that the top points finisher used one either this year or last. I don't have any information though beyond the company name. Do you know if they have a website or how to get into touch with them?
I searched and didn't find anything...
Thanks,
Brian
I have heard of GT Aeroproducts and even think that the top points finisher used one either this year or last. I don't have any information though beyond the company name. Do you know if they have a website or how to get into touch with them?
I searched and didn't find anything...
Thanks,
Brian
10-15-2002, 07:16 PM
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daven:
that site/manufacturer I know of and was wondering if there were others out there with options that wouldn't set me back at a min. of two thousand dollars just for the starter kit (they have two levels of kit completion above that price).
Mluvara:
Thanks for the contact info. I ran across his email address on a site that listed him as a sponsor. I emailed him and received a response already. Now that is someone I can deal with. Real lenthy e-mail with good info in it as I asked him some very broad questions as to the 'out of the box' race-wortyness of his kit. His kit does sound good and is at a better price than the two other high dollar kits.
You say you helped a freind install a new laminar flow wing on his GT Aero Products T-6. He says he sells the kit with one of two wings. Both for racing by one much more so. Is this the one you are refering to or did you make even a more scratch built racing wing. Was this racing wing he has availible at the time or is it new?
that site/manufacturer I know of and was wondering if there were others out there with options that wouldn't set me back at a min. of two thousand dollars just for the starter kit (they have two levels of kit completion above that price).
Mluvara:
Thanks for the contact info. I ran across his email address on a site that listed him as a sponsor. I emailed him and received a response already. Now that is someone I can deal with. Real lenthy e-mail with good info in it as I asked him some very broad questions as to the 'out of the box' race-wortyness of his kit. His kit does sound good and is at a better price than the two other high dollar kits.
You say you helped a freind install a new laminar flow wing on his GT Aero Products T-6. He says he sells the kit with one of two wings. Both for racing by one much more so. Is this the one you are refering to or did you make even a more scratch built racing wing. Was this racing wing he has availible at the time or is it new?
10-15-2002, 07:35 PM
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Giant Scale AT-6 Racing
Tom's a good friend of mine. I believe he has two wings as you described. I know that the sport one flies well and is a good flying AT-6. However, I don't know about Tom's current racing wing. I had played around with designing a laminar wing, so my friend wanted to try it out. We mated it to the AT-6 that I showed in the post above and he flew it at one race. Since then, he hasn't had time to go test. The wing appeared fast but, since the motor that he used was really bad, there's no telling.
With AT-6's , there's a tradeoff between ultimate speed (laminar wing) and a wing that turns. You can't have both necessarily, but a tradeoff of the two. An example is that Tom's sport wing turns great, but lags in straightaway speed. The wing that I designed that was put on my friend's AT-6 was a little too laminar and I think it suffered in the turns. I made him new templates for another that didn't have such a dramatic laminar bucket and had a more blunt LE, but we haven't done anything with it as of yet. I like experimenting in racing. To me, that is the fun of it...
Michael
With AT-6's , there's a tradeoff between ultimate speed (laminar wing) and a wing that turns. You can't have both necessarily, but a tradeoff of the two. An example is that Tom's sport wing turns great, but lags in straightaway speed. The wing that I designed that was put on my friend's AT-6 was a little too laminar and I think it suffered in the turns. I made him new templates for another that didn't have such a dramatic laminar bucket and had a more blunt LE, but we haven't done anything with it as of yet. I like experimenting in racing. To me, that is the fun of it...
Michael
10-17-2002, 01:32 AM
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Well, I emailed him again about the GT Aero Products kit and it sounds good to me. Here was his response when I inquired about the wing and asked for an info kit on the kit:
Brian,
I can help you on that question on the wing - we added the different
airfoil to the aircraft as technology in the airfoil area continued to
increase. The original airfoil on our aircraft was very competitive in 1999,
but like always, one has to keep up with changes in racing. The newer
airfoil was added in 2001. It is a laminar airfoil and better than the
original. One of the nice things about our setup is that we do not make
molds for the wings. We decided long ago that we should keep with making a
foam wing, sheeted and glassed. In addition to saving the time and expense
of creating molds for the wings, the real advantage is that we can continue
to change the wing and keep it updated with the latest airfoil technology.
Another big advantage for the owner of the aircraft is that the wing is
repairable. Composite "shell" wings are, for the most part, a throw-away
once they've been damaged. They are very difficult to repair properly and
still withstand the loads imposed on them by racing. (AT-6's are capable of
20 g's or more, depending on the entry airspeed for the turn and how hard the
pilot decides to pull.) My feeling is that the average modeler may not be
able to properly repair the (composite shell) wing if it is damaged - that
may lead to a failure and an "errant" aircraft that may sacrifice the safety
of spectators. Theaverage modeler is much more familiar with the
conventional foam wing and is, in my opinion, more adept at repairing it.
Small point, I know - but safety is always an important factor to consider
when marketing an aircraft to the general public.
Thanks for the address - I'll get the info in the mail to you asap.
Take care.
Thomas W. Rullman
I cannot wait to look over the info kit he is to send me.
Brian
Brian,
I can help you on that question on the wing - we added the different
airfoil to the aircraft as technology in the airfoil area continued to
increase. The original airfoil on our aircraft was very competitive in 1999,
but like always, one has to keep up with changes in racing. The newer
airfoil was added in 2001. It is a laminar airfoil and better than the
original. One of the nice things about our setup is that we do not make
molds for the wings. We decided long ago that we should keep with making a
foam wing, sheeted and glassed. In addition to saving the time and expense
of creating molds for the wings, the real advantage is that we can continue
to change the wing and keep it updated with the latest airfoil technology.
Another big advantage for the owner of the aircraft is that the wing is
repairable. Composite "shell" wings are, for the most part, a throw-away
once they've been damaged. They are very difficult to repair properly and
still withstand the loads imposed on them by racing. (AT-6's are capable of
20 g's or more, depending on the entry airspeed for the turn and how hard the
pilot decides to pull.) My feeling is that the average modeler may not be
able to properly repair the (composite shell) wing if it is damaged - that
may lead to a failure and an "errant" aircraft that may sacrifice the safety
of spectators. Theaverage modeler is much more familiar with the
conventional foam wing and is, in my opinion, more adept at repairing it.
Small point, I know - but safety is always an important factor to consider
when marketing an aircraft to the general public.
Thanks for the address - I'll get the info in the mail to you asap.
Take care.
Thomas W. Rullman
I cannot wait to look over the info kit he is to send me.
Brian
05-05-2003, 02:46 AM
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AT-6
Just FYI.... Byron models is now Iron Bay Model Company it is located at www.ironbaymodelcompany.com and Giant Scale Planes makes an ARF 100"+ model as well go to www.giantscaleplanes.com I think you can order one uncovered... Just my .02c worth... Happy landings....
