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1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

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1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Old 02-05-2010, 04:13 PM
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T34RACING
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

The plane has been together for a while, but it just sat over at my brothers. I test flew it last sunday at morgan hill. If the weather is decent, probably fly again sunday coming up, but the weather might be ugly. The RPM's i am getting now is more than I am suppose to get so I am not sure how much more the engine can take. I was actually kind of amazed that I got what I did.

I have the corsair as well as long as Bryan doesnt keep landing it like a carrier landing. He kept testing the rotaters for me each time.

This year should be fun. I have (1) Unlimited done, 1 Stock 75 Corsair almost ready to fly and the 46 is ready to go. I have another 75 Corsair and another Unlimited 1/2 done. No excuses this year. Now if my health stays good, i will be there.



Old 02-05-2010, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Very cool Kevin. Sounds like you've been busy. I wish you all the best with your health. Hopefully, that business is behind you.

I'm really looking forward to this year. I want to try and hit a couple of the SAMS races this year. I think I will probably skip a couple T34 to balance those out with family. I also talked to Mick this week and he a new Voodoo put together for 75.

I sent you an email RE sunday.


Chris
Old 02-05-2010, 08:49 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

what rpm you getting out of that 14x14. my stock 120AX with muffler only turns that at 7,800-7,900.
Old 02-05-2010, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: airraptor

what rpm you getting out of that 14x14. my stock 120AX with muffler only turns that at 7,800-7,900.
I Don't know #'s for any of the 4 or 5 different model 1.20's that YS made last century, but... my DZ 1.70 carried the discontinued APC 14.5x14.5" (yea, I know) at 11,200 backed off significantly and necessarily rich on 45% nitro on the 2nd gallon of fuel through the new engine, (the first time we bumped from 30% to 45%).
No needling issues at all. as matter of fact, it transitions dang close to perfect on the 45% but stumbled slightly during sustained midrange on the 30% with the untouched stock regulator setting. It is behaving quite ready for more serious fuel blends, and we WILL see how it goes!
This really was not enough prop load to play to the engines STRONG point; I know now that I can load it with say another inch of pitch or diameter, or even pitch AND diameter without falling off the peak of the powerband. carefully consider the implications of that... I love Moki 2.10s but I doubt you will approach the same ballpark with one for very long if at all on any amount of nitro, no matter whether it is shimmed and modified any way you want.
Old 02-06-2010, 01:39 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

50%+. Apparently the pump system can't keep up with the higher fuel draw and you get to a point that the needle is wide open and the pump starts to aerate the fuel. This happened to Richard and Ray when they used the 170 for the USRA race.
My example of this engine shows no sign whatsoever of this syndrome so far (I run a header tank and an OS bubbless clunk... and I could easily shut the engine off by going about 1 turn richer at full throttle on 45%), but I did some research after I read your post and found that among hardcore championship pattern guys that put alot of running time on DZ 1.70s;
Apparently some of the Europeans are experiencing the soft aluminum pump body getting deformed by the plunger action. The pump output is compromised and they go lean obviously. The fix they are doing is to machine a steel disk into the pump body where the problem occurs. I am posting this in case anyone else experiences the same unexplained CHANGE in fuel delivery, so that we can have a heads up instead of really having to scratch our heads[sm=49_49.gif] !

P.S. I looked for a while to find the post where I read this originally but no luck (so far), I seem to remember RC$roups as my starting point. If anyone finds it, there is more detailed info and pictures of the mod.
Old 02-06-2010, 12:12 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Hey CR, Nice to have your input here.
School going well?
Old 02-08-2010, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

Hey CR, Nice to have your input here.
School going well?
Thanks! and Yes! yes it is Tom, the further I get into this A&P thing the more humbled I am by the tradition and history of honor, integrity, skill, and pride in service that working A&P's hold themselves to (you are'nt blushing are you ya' big lug?[sm=red_smile.gif]).
I have got to make time to get you to come fly with us Vaca Valley guys sometime this century. They (the ones that actually spend their days at the field) are fantastic... hard driving warbird and speed guys who burn more fuel with less politics than any club group I've spent time with in more than 20 yrs!

It takes most of my time and energy to give the Aeronautics program justice, but I still get out to the model club and fly beaters once in a while.
Also, (believe it or not) the 1/7 scale DZ 1.70 powered Bear Kitty is finally turning into an airplane, a deadly serious one in every way![sm=tongue_smile.gif]. Most of the systems are installed, most of the body working/filleting etc. is done, and she looks like she is starting to wake up after her long slumber; even in her first coats of primer!
This Rare Bear will be finished in the orange on white scheme she flew from 1988 to 1991. I will submit the airplane and documentation for your approval when we finally fly her together.

P.S. ALL credit for the "Bear" mold belongs to D.P. not C.R., at some point in the future, we may be willing to offer 1/7 scale pro molded kits, arfs, or turn key airframes for P-51d fuselage based pylon racers, Corsairs, Bearcats, Cessna 182s, "SlipStream", (and other aircraft to be named) Unfortunately these will all have to be targeted to people operating at a high level of our sport only.
Best Regards, C.R.
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

LOL CR,
The only thing to remember about being an A&P is that you are everything from a "seamstress to a S.O.B."
Get that Rare Bear finished up and on a JR X9303. That way I can bind my radio to it for a flight!
I do want one of those Bears when you are finished.
Old 02-08-2010, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

LOL CR,
The only thing to remember about being an A&P is that you are everything from a ''seamstress to a S.O.B.''
Get that Rare Bear finished up and on a JR X9303. That way I can bind my radio to it for a flight!
I do want one of those Bears when you are finished.
Actually, it is programmed into my X9303, and you are on the very short list of people who are welcome to fly my example. Consider it done!
Now if you just were'nt one of those dang mode 1 flyers we would'nt have to go through that pain in the butt 10 second binding procedure, you could just use mine[sm=47_47.gif]!
Old 02-08-2010, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Ahh but remember, I fly both modes.
It's just that Mode 1 is how I fly best.
Old 02-09-2010, 01:31 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?


ORIGINAL: C_Roundy

ORIGINAL: airraptor

what rpm you getting out of that 14x14. my stock 120AX with muffler only turns that at 7,800-7,900.
I Don't know #'s for any of the 4 or 5 different model 1.20's that YS made last century, but... my DZ 1.70 carried the discontinued APC 14.5x14.5'' (yea, I know) at 11,200 backed off significantly and necessarily rich on 45% nitro on the 2nd gallon of fuel through the new engine, (the first time we bumped from 30% to 45%).
No needling issues at all. as matter of fact, it transitions dang close to perfect on the 45% but stumbled slightly during sustained midrange on the 30% with the untouched stock regulator setting. It is behaving quite ready for more serious fuel blends, and we WILL see how it goes!
This really was not enough prop load to play to the engines STRONG point; I know now that I can load it with say another inch of pitch or diameter, or even pitch AND diameter without falling off the peak of the powerband. carefully consider the implications of that... I love Moki 2.10s but I doubt you will approach the same ballpark with one for very long if at all on any amount of nitro, no matter whether it is shimmed and modified any way you want.
On my YS 1.40 I'm getting about 9,200 on a 14x14 on 20/20 fuel. I talked to Richard V and he said his 1.20 SC is turning 10,500 on 65% nitro. Do you think it hurt my 1.40 to turn up around those numbers? Looks like you were turning higher than that with your 1.70.

Thanks, Terry
Old 02-10-2010, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Tom, I would sooner trust you with my girlfriend AND mother than I would have you fly the Bear in a mode you are not most comfortable with[sm=72_72.gif]...
Hmm, ironically, I would sooner trust you with the Bear in a mode you are'nt comfortable with, than I would trust you with the girlfriend and mom in a mode you are comfortable with; go figure[sm=50_50.gif]...

P.S. we are having a h@ll of a time getting detail pictures of the 1988 thru 1991 orange on white scheme that we need to paint her in, - the Rare Bear that is, not the girlfriend or the mom...

All the best, C.R.
Old 02-10-2010, 06:37 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

On my YS 1.40 I'm getting about 9,200 on a 14x14 on 20/20 fuel. I talked to Richard V and he said his 1.20 SC is turning 10,500 on 65% nitro. Do you think it hurt my 1.40 to turn up around those numbers? Looks like you were turning higher than that with your 1.70.

Thanks, Terry
[/quote]

Terry, just a quick reply so that you know I'm not ignoring you. BUT, I honestly can't figure out what you are trying to ask me without seperating these kind of Q.s. so that they can be answered with specific data. Except to say don't exceed about 10,500rpm with a YS big block unless you are willing to study the design closely, and learn it damn well before you do it.
Old 02-10-2010, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

CR,

I see a lot of posts saying to keep the big blocks around 9,000, Unfortunately, that won't get the speed I need but I think 10.5K will do. I was just curious why the 1.40 wouldn't turn at least as many RPM's as the 1.70. The 1.70 has to ingest a lot more air than the 1.40 and I assume the valve train is pretty much the same, though I could be wrong about that. It's in a new plane that I just finished and hope to maiden this weekend. I'll fly it on 20/20 of some 30% Heli first and see how it does. Then I'll uppa the nitro if need be. I'll try to keep it under 10,500.

Thanks for your help.

Terry
Old 02-10-2010, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Terry,

I think the problem with your data is that the typical use for these motors is pattern. Those guys are not shooting for high rpm, they are shooting for best torque, best throttle response, low noise, etc.

We are operating the motors outside their INTENDED use. Therefore alot of the data you're looking for isn't readily available.

If Richard feels comfortable turning 10,500 with a big block YS I would too. If anyone knows where the limits of these motors are he should.

So get out that jug of 45/50/55% and see what it will do. It should be a rocket. It will have almost twice the thrust of the 110 and should really accelerate out of the corners.


Chris
Old 02-10-2010, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Hey Chris,

You're right, there isn't a lot of info on the 1.40 as used in racing. That is why I asked here. I see a few guys running the 1.20 but almost never the 1.40. That could be because of the wing area chart. I happen to have a couple 1.40s and now that we have no wing area chart, I figured, why not give it a try?. I'm just trying to gather some info from guys who may have run them.

Blessings, Terry
Old 02-11-2010, 05:53 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: ChrisAttebery

Terry,

I think the problem with your data is that the typical use for these motors is pattern. Those guys are not shooting for high rpm, they are shooting for best torque, best throttle response, low noise, etc.

We are operating the motors outside their INTENDED use. Therefore alot of the data you're looking for isn't readily available.

If Richard feels comfortable turning 10,500 with a big block YS I would too. If anyone knows where the limits of these motors are he should.

So get out that jug of 45/50/55% and see what it will do. It should be a rocket. It will have almost twice the thrust of the 110 and should really accelerate out of the corners.


Chris
Chris well said. The valve springs ability to keep the valves up with the program is by far the primary, inherent limitation to avoiding grenading the whole schmoo. Within those limits breathing efficiency at a given rpm does start to come into play as well though; I tend to be of the opinion that the cam timing, lift, and duration of the stock YS big block engines is not far off at all from theoretical perfection even at say 10,500-11,000, even though they are designed superbly for, and intended for the 9,000 ballpark.

-BUT- with that said, lately I am really starting to believe that careful tailoring of prop design for slightly lower target rpm may yield even higher efficiency (read that as speed), for our unavoidably draggy warbird shapes. For instance, dragging around a well executed 1/7th scale warbird racer with a DZ-1.70 something along the lines of a 15 x 16" THIN airfoiled (achievable with carbon), and narrow prop would land me right back at the 10,400 of an apc 16x14 wide -but- although it would stay a little lower on the course, my pitch speed would be much better.

I know aiming for that on purpose seems counter-intuitive; (guys always boast yeah my engine unloads like a banshee up there...), but with my example of the DZ1.70 at least, when I really listen to her this is what she seems to be telling me she wants.
When I am done painting a certain airplane, I intend to do some tests between steeply re-pitched 14.5x14.5s, 16x14s, and cut and thinned 16x16" APCs to give me an idea what mold I need to make; Fred is quickly discontinueing these sorts of props anyway.

P.S. Just to benchmark my prop thoughts a little, I seem to remember reading that Richard Verano set his standing class record heat time last summer for the F-1 Sundowner with an APC 16x14' (even if thats true, who knows how the prop was massaged though) -BUT- consider carefully; the Sundowner is an 80 inch, 14 pound airplane...
Old 02-11-2010, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

I spoke with Richard today. He confirmed that he is running a 14x14 on his 1.20 but also confirmed that is on 65% nitro. His suggestion is that I try the same prop on my 1.40 but just run less nitro and see how it goes. So, I am going to blend up some 50% fuel and bring some 30% Heli fuel with me to the field this weekend and see how it does. I'll report back after the flights.

Blessings, Terry
Old 02-11-2010, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?


ORIGINAL: still4given

I spoke with Richard today. He confirmed that he is running a 14x14 on his 1.20 but also confirmed that is on 65% nitro. His suggestion is that I try the same prop on my 1.40 but just run less nitro and see how it goes. So, I am going to blend up some 50% fuel and bring some 30% Heli fuel with me to the field this weekend and see how it does. I'll report back after the flights.

Blessings, Terry
Dude, the title of this thread is Dingo, (not mine but I'm in it) Terry, seriously, if you start your own thread for 1.20s and / or 1.40s we WILL help you better there.
I'm sorry to have to say it, but stop blessing people and start paying more attention to how you are actually treating them.

Absolution, Charles Russell Roundy...
Old 02-11-2010, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?


ORIGINAL: C_Roundy


ORIGINAL: still4given

I spoke with Richard today. He confirmed that he is running a 14x14 on his 1.20 but also confirmed that is on 65% nitro. His suggestion is that I try the same prop on my 1.40 but just run less nitro and see how it goes. So, I am going to blend up some 50% fuel and bring some 30% Heli fuel with me to the field this weekend and see how it does. I'll report back after the flights.

Blessings, Terry
Dude, the title of this thread is Dingo, (not mine but I'm in it) Terry, seriously, if you start your own thread for 1.20s and / or 1.40s we WILL help you better there.
I'm sorry to have to say it, but stop blessing people and start paying more attention to how you are actually treating them.

Absolution, Charles Russell Roundy...

Hey Charles,

Wow, thanks for the wake up call! I look back through this thread and see that I am the only one who took it off course.

Thanks for teaching me how to treat people.
Old 02-11-2010, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

CR,
How long is the short list of pilots for the Bear? If Tommy can make the list it might be quite long.....

Seriously, it's nice to see you posting. Hope all is going well with school and that we see you at the races this year.
Jimmy Skids
Old 02-13-2010, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

Those Bearcats look AWESOME

Old 02-14-2010, 05:13 AM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: still4given

Hey Charles,

Wow, thanks for the wake up call! I look back through this thread and see that I am the only one who took it off course.

Thanks for teaching me how to treat people.


[/quote]
You really still don't get it do you. I sincerly offered to help you if you would just start up your questions in a good thread for them,
If you do not do that now, I will not help you.
Old 02-14-2010, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

These threads have a way of meandering around. I don' think Terry was the only one causing this thread to go off course. People tend to post in the threads that have activity rather than starting up a new thread. The big block YS motors are more similar to each other than they are different. I see Spitfire/120AC posts, H9 P51/YS 170 posts, Bearcat/YS170 posts.

If you want to get so specific, you shouldn't be posting Bearcat or A&P information in this thread. They have nothing to do with the original topic.
Old 02-14-2010, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: 1/7 scale P-51 with YS Dingo, has it been done?

ORIGINAL: C_Roundy

ORIGINAL: still4given

Hey Charles,

Wow, thanks for the wake up call! I look back through this thread and see that I am the only one who took it off course.

Thanks for teaching me how to treat people.

You really still don't get it do you. I sincerly offered to help you if you would just start up your questions in a good thread for them,
If you do not do that now, I will not help you.


[/quote]

I only asked about my 1.40 because you claimed to take your 1.70 to 11,200 rpm and this being my first time using a YS 1.40 for racing, higher rpm was a concern of mine.. I have started posts about the 1.40, only to have them fall off the page for lack of responses, and the responses that were posted were from folks also looking for answers. You could have just as easily just answered my questions and it would have been done, but instead you chose to attack the way I sign off my posts, and though you have taken the thread off subject with a completely different plane that you are building, you accused me of treating people badly.

I have no idea who you are, but it's clear that you think you're "someone" when it comes to YS engines. Why don't you take a little example from Richard Verano and try being helpful instead of such a big shot?

Thanks anyway, Terry

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