RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Thanks for the photos Barry. I just inspected mine to find it is the earlier version with no filet. It looks as though the fillets on your Double Trouble II are integrated and not add on fiberglass like the Miss America. I see my fillets were too small and I may want to re-think it and make them from balsa and Monokote or Ultracote. If it would not be too much trouble, please take a few more close-ups from top and underside and front/rear measurements.

I think someone asked about the deal on the gear. My Robart 701RS and 7/16 struts and air system were purchased from Tower with the current discount ad and free shipping they came to $177 delivered to my door. Just the Spring-Air 404s are $220 w/o struts.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

If you are a Tower Super Saver and use the deals it is hard to beat their deals. And yes cost is am issue for this plane as I need to keep the cost down. If the standard system will not hold up with the modified struts then this will be my next stop. Have you installed the Robarts yet?I will take the measurements and pics today and post.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Ok, here are the pics of the fillets. It will be over 2-3 posts They start 11/16" behind the front bulkhead at the leading edge of the wing. They are widest at thetrailing edge bulkhead 2 3/8" and then the rear taper is 4 3/8" behind the trailing edgebulkhead

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

more

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Last. Any other questions let me know.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Barry,

Thanks for all the great photos. I think I can use my template and the photos to do a pretty good job.
I have not received the gear yet, but there is a Don Stegall Youtube vid of him with the same setup. It looks to be pretty easy. Here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2aFcKU-GFk
Thanks again! Jon

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Those look like mine also. I have a Miss America in the grage also I will go look at it today to see if it has Fillets

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

There were some Double Trouble kits that were being offered as "Scratch & Dent" because of imperfections in the fiberglass parts that are covered like the stab tips, wing fillets, etc. It was a run of a new production of the newer model of the P-51 G.S. On the new model, the stab root is built into the fuselage.

The price was $200 plus actual shipping.

This was a great deal. I don't know if all of the S&D kits have been sold. I can find out or you can call AirBorne.

The wish list items of wing improvements has not been implemented yet.

The wing fillets come on the Miss America and the Double Trouble. Some of the military silver planes may have them. The yellow Rockwell is the original design and does not have them. I may try to get some wing fillets imported for retrofitting.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

I found something very interesting during some research. Value Hobby has a 80" P-51 that looks just like the World Models and it only comes in one color scheme (similar to Crazy Horse or Petie 2nd) that is different from the WM schemes. It sells for $299. I have not found anything for reviews or other info on it. I contacted them to ask if it was a variation of the WM P51 like The Wingsmaker series. The reply was it is not WM but consider it a clone. H-m-m-m-m I wonder if it is the same manufacturer? Anyway...I went for it and it has fillets. I'm curious how close it will be and I will report when I receive it.

I had an offer for my WM Dolly and sold it, but still want to build another. Hopefully this one from Value Hobby will fit the bill.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

So...I received the Value Hobby 81" P51 GS. It seems very nice. I will take some photos when I start building it after the holidays. It was delivered in two boxes. I inspected everything for missing parts or damage. No damage and the covering looks well done. On the preliminary inspection, there does not appear to be any wrinkles like we normally find with large ARFs. Here is a rundown of what I know so far.

Good points - It has a different color scheme that will look different than the normal TWM ARFs. It looks as well built as TWM P51 GS. The fuselage has wing fillets. The gear doors are not the flimsy fiberglass ones I'm used to seeing. These appear to be made from light ply and covered with better attachment parts. It also comes with 500lb bombs and drop tanks. The control surfaces are not pre-glued and it comes with nice large plastic pinned hinges.

Not so good points - It did not come with instructions or parts list. When I inquired at Value Hobby, I was sent a .pdf of TWM P51 GS intructions. The parts list in the manual does not match for the following reasons. This plane does not come with a 5" spinner so it means go to TWM or Dave Brown or Tru-turn or TopFlite. I chose Dave Brown and ordered one. This plane recommends a 20-30cc gas engine and does not come with a motor mount. It does come with parts for a vibration mount setup for a gas engine. Fortunately I have a mount in my acc. drawer. I have yet to determine if the 27oz fuel tank has a gas or glow stopper. The pilot sent in the ARF is a large civilian pilot bust. It does not come with the transparent cowl. It also uses the dual elevator pushrod setup. I will use a TWM bellcrank shaft with a carbon fiber drive rod and 4-40 rods to the elevators. It worked great on my last one.

If you weigh it out with having to buy a spinner, motor mount for glow engine, it is not such a great savings. However, I don't have to build wing fillets and it will be a nice plane with tanks or bombs.

More to come...

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

My Double trouble came with the dual elevator pushrods with the coupling to one servo.  It looked OK and as I am building it to keep costs down I will try it.  Your comments appreciated.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Pictures of my setup.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Barry, my comment is I've seen the same set up as yours on different threads with 30 gas and up to 180 nitro engines. I can't remember the name of the gentleman who posted 2 or 3 videos from 2 years ago (from India I think) which is presented on this thread also by Don. You can't see the linkages on underside but I remember this person was on another RCU thread stating he used all stock supplied horns, clevises, etc.

He used a DLE 30, his friend used a Magnum 180 (I think 2s). I will be employing the 2 rear elevator sevros and single pull pull rudder only because the DLE 35 is heavy enough to equalize the CG without having to add much or any counter balance. In studying Jim's rendition, he had to put the rudder servo in tail also.

On another note from another post you answered there were only you, Don and Jim preparing to race these birds. Does that mean I can be #4?
Has RCPRO decided when and where these P-51's will race next year... I'm not in a hurry I just want to make sure to get this into my schedule.

John

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

I do not have as detailed photos of my setup on the mustang, but it was almost identical to this setup on my GBY. In the fuse photo you can see the carbon fiber rod coming off the 9303. Tha tail section photo is self explanitory. Good positive control without the extra tail weight. I also do not like the look of the servos in the tail.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

I don't care for the asthetics of exposed servos either, but this location is where they need to be for me. I could always bury them so arms only are exposed but the likages are 4-40 hardware so they'll stick out unless I paint them. In my understanding, this is kind of a fun scale airframe anyway. No points added or deducted for realism. It's your call how far you want your plane to scale up. I'm not the best pilot so I like this arrangement to use low cost products.

Have you checked to see if your plane is legal? For RCPRO racing that is.

John

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Just a little update on the VH P-51 GS. The vertical stabilizer is built as part of the fuselage. You just hinge the rudder...that's a plus. I also noticed the horizontal stabilizer has tabs on the bottom where it meets the fuselage. Since I'm using the instructions from TWM, it does not have any info. I believe it would be to screw into the fuse. I'm going to permanently epoxy the stab on so I may just cut off the tabs.

By the way...this is what it is modeled after. Used to be "Queen B" and know is Excaliber. I've ordered nose art for it and I have everything else to make it look like the photo.

I promise progress photos as I build. Just doing all the preliminary stuff for now.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

I have begun to unpack the beast. As you can see it comes in two boxes. The wings are nicely covered with invasion stripes. It includes the aluminum wing tube.

The fuselage box contains everything else. It all looks very nice and as stated before, not one wrinkle anywhere. That is unusual for a Chinese ARF. You can also see ther vertical stab and it is nicely done.

I took a photo of the 800cc/27oz fuel tank and the gear doors. The doors are either light or aircraft ply covered with the film used on the plane. They look good in comparison to the fiberglass ones. The fuel tank came with a reddish/brown stopper and el cheapo gas fuel line. I changed the stopper to glow with glow fuel tubing. I also replaced the aluminum tubing with brass and used larger brass tubing for the fuel pickup line to accomodate my OS 160 2 stroke.

I'll start on the wing later this week.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Hi All,

I decided I did not want to hijack this thread because it was meant for World Models race planes. I have started a new thread in the Warbird section.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...m.htm#11334268

Thank you for the info and insight...and now back to the subject of this thread.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Since my forum has been 'HIJACKED", I will post one more time and let you guys have it.

This morning, I flew the Mustang again. It now has a new DLE 35 R engine on it. Very good power, reliable idle, and best of all, very low vibration. Temp was 39 degrees and the engine started like the temp was 80. Took off in about half the distance that the PTE 36 took.

I only had 10 flights with the PTE 36 engine. Major vibration issues. After 6 months, I received a new PTE 36 Version 2. I had already purchased the DLE engine.
I have been assured from the factory that the PTE vibration problems have been solved with the version 2. It's very possible that I was just unlucky enough to have gotten a lemon.
The factory worked well with me and kept telling me to just be patient. So don't judge the other PTE engines by the bad results that I had with mine.

I am extremely happy with the results I am getting from the DLE 35. I hope to get many flights out of my Mustang.

James

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Aw common James.  You have a <u>great</u> thread.  Your insight and pioneer-ism is what got it started.  The gent who had other than a WM P-51 GS started another thread.  <div>
</div><div>If I promise to start working on my Double Trouble will you stick around??</div><div>
</div><div>What size prop are you running on the 35RA?</div>

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

What kind of speed have you been getting with the DLE?

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Barry,

That's all I fly is tuned set-ups. Early on upon my return to gasoline, I ran the SAP180HP rear exhaust. This one could handle smaller props such as 18x10 apc or 17x11, 16x12. It is designed for racing but lacks tork so it must rev high. The 16x12 turned around 9200 at full revs. I no longer fly this one since the newer engines are more powerful and have more tork

Currently have the OS GT33 set-up with Hatori back to center header and ES Composites 40G pipe. The pipe is 210$ but is all carbon (a work of art in reality) and supremely light (3 ozs). This combo is super strong, stronger than anything in the 30cc to 40cc that I've experimented with. Turns 20 and 21" props, 10" pitch. For racing let me suggest an 18x14; will give more clearance too. This engine just loves to be loaded down. An amazing little gassie and do not underload it. It won't necessarily rev up more

Recently ran the PTE36R with a tuned pipe (mintor 38cc aluminum pipe) and an Xoar 19x10 prop. I ran the CHignition from the start.Header was full length Macs rear exhaust type for the OS140RX. The mounting bolts were on center but needed opening to 5mm. Not as strong as the OS but reasonable.

Next experiment will be a DLE35RA. Same header as the PTE36R and same pipe. I don't expect much better than the PTE but we'll see....

And BTW- all of you might consider using the Tech Aero IBEC; eliminates the second battery and switch and signal is optically isolated from the RX. It's a very lightweight (0.6 ounce)electronic goodiethat installs in the retract or other convenient channel. Once you use this device you'll never go back. The convenience of not having reach behind a revving prop to shut off a switch is worth it to me.

If you guys need some bullet proof couplersImold these custom to fit exact requirements, includingsome bends. The material is ceramic cloth and special high temperature gas resistant silicone rubber. Very light but very strong and practically unaffected by heat. They are not cheap but they will last 100's of flights. All I use; not available commercially....

I like what you guys are doing with the racers. I hadn't thought racing as a potential application for all I've learned in the last 3+ years of playing with tuned gassies, but heck, it's a natural

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Thanks for the great info Matt.  I have cut and pasted your post to my racing folder.  I will talk more on this later.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

Barry, you're welcome,

There're details of course. There're a bunch of those. You can PM me or contact my email address directly if you need to chat.

I read somewhere above that a gent was looking to put in a 27 oz gas tank in one of these models??? How long are you guys racing for,half anhour at a time?

I use a 12 oz tank, a Fiji water bottle. The fittings and flexible fuel line that stays flexible for years are both items I carry. Twelve ounces run the OS GT33 for 15 minutes and I still have an ounce left in the tank.

For max performance out of these small piped gassies let me suggest that you use premium gas, mixed 50:1 with a good synthetic. There are several good oils so I'm not gonna push one over the other.

RE: Gas Powered World Models P51 GS
 

For racing I would figure 5-7 min max for launching, milling around for the air start, 10 lap heat race, and landing.  So 12 oz would be more that enough maybe go down to an 8-10 oz tank.  You don't want to carry anymore fuel than you need for that race.  I will probably use a 10 oz tank to start off with and evaluate it from there.<div>
</div><div>I was going to use Pennzoil dino based for the break in.  And then Amsoil Saber 100:1 2 stroke oil mixed at 50:1 after break in.  I have 8-10 bottles of the Amsoil on the shelf and I haven't read anything overwhelmingly bad about it.  There is always someone somewhere that says a particular oil is bad and really they didn't mix it properly or forgot to mix any oil into the fuel so it can be a mess if you aren't into lubricants and understand.  I used Belray MC-1 for years in my dirt bikes and it was great.  The old Klotz red can was a great oil.  There are many really good ones out there but there are always those that can mess up a w$##@ dream so to speak.</div>