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  1. #1

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    Scratch Build Research

    Hello to everyone. This is my 1st post so please bare with me. I want to scratch build an airplane from plans. I have minor wood working skills and good mechanical skills. I have built 2 airplanes from kits (SIG LT-40; SIG Mid-Star 40). I'm not certain what aircraft I would like to build. My main concern is how to select the proper wood, where to find great information on diong it right, and not buying a set of plans that are hard for even a Master Builder to use. All advice will be Greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, PSB
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  2. #2
    FlyerInOKC's Avatar
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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Think about what airplanes interest you. Try to pick something with stable flight characteristics. You might start looking at some of the plan services like Bob Holman Plans ( http://www.bhplans.com/ ), Model Airplane News ( http://www.modelairplanenews.com/plans/ ), or Cleveland Models (for old timer designs). Don't be shy about contacting them for information or to make suggestions. I like Golden Era aircraft a good choice would be the Rich Uravich Cessna 185. The design is well thought out, easy to fly and you may be able to get a back issue of MAN for building article. You might check with Ken Kehlet in OKC he did have a large plan library and he would be a good one to ask for a recommendation. He was flying over at the TORKS field near Lake Hefner.

    Oh one more thing Flying Scale Models magazine is carried by some of the Hobby Shops in the OKC Metro area and a lot of the issues contain free plans. You might have to purchase two issues in a row to get the full set but the construction articles are good and a lot of the Peter Rake designs are easy to fly.

    Mike
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  3. #3

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    I've built some Vintage free plans, aircraft from plans. most are smallish and need modernizing, kinda fun, but can be challenging. try a high wing Cessna or stinson or Monocoupe for starters, some plans are very bad, if buying ebay, get a preview of plans, some are junk, some are good, and some illegal copies. buy a brandname set and search online before buying. some can be misaligned in print and are no good.

  4. #4
    FlyerInOKC's Avatar
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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    What are your interests nitro wing? I have found with plans you get what you pay for, free plans are usually pretty bad. With the cost of materials why not invest in a good set of plans from a reputable designer and get something worth building? I avoid the Ebay plans like the plague because of quality and copywrite issues.
    Top Flite Brotherhood # 1
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    I bought a reusable kit the other day, it came with it's own large black trash bag!

  5. #5
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    RE: Scratch Build Research


    ORIGINAL: PSB

    Hello to everyone.Β* This is my 1st post so please bare with me.Β* I want to scratch build an airplane from plans.Β* I have minor wood working skills and good mechanical skills.Β* I have built 2 airplanes from kits (SIG LT-40; SIG Mid-Star 40).Β* I'm not certain what aircraft I would like to build. My main concern is how to select the proper wood, where to find great information on diong it right, and not buying a set of plans that are hard for even a Master Builder to use.Β* All advice will be Greatly appreciated.Β* Thanks in advance,Β* PSB
    Look at your LT 40 & MidStar plans. The instructions contain a wealth of information about wood selection. At least, they used to!

    Same for ¨doing it right¨, lots of information from Sig, probably available on their website, too.

    Good luck,
    Dave Olson
    The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him GKChesterton

  6. #6

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    FlyerInOKC,  Part of my problem is that my interests vary.  My fuel source doesn't though.  Glow or Gas.  Airplane range from my Favorite, the Beechcraft G-17 Staggerwing, to Chester's Jeep, and I even have huge interest in a varity of Seaplanes.  I guess I need to blindfold myself and throw a dart at a list of Airplanes.  Also, I too, have been avoiding eBay.  And I have been taught that you get what you pay for son the "Free Plans" just sound too good to be true.
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  7. #7

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Scar,  Thanks for the tip on doing research through SIG.  I guess it was just one of those things that was so easy I just didn't think about it.
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
    Sig Brotherhood Member # 132

  8. #8

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    RE: Scratch Build Research



    Good morning All,

    Well, after doing some research it seems that I've fallen in love with an Airplane that some of you may be familiar with.  Unfortunately they don't make it anymore.  The SIG Ryan STA.  Is there any hope of finding one of these kits anywhere?  If not, is there anyone out there that sells plans for a Ryan STA?

    Thank you,

    PSB

    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  9. #9
    FlyerInOKC's Avatar
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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    PSB, you will find one posted periodically on Ebay and RCU you just have to keep watch. I find they are usually posted when I'm broke and can't pay for it!

    I would expect to pay between $250 and $300 plus freight. Two of these kits sold on Ebay Easter Sunday. The trick is to patient and keep looking.

    There are a couple of good builds on RCU you may want to check out and I would start researching scale details you may wish to add.

    Mike
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    I bought a reusable kit the other day, it came with it's own large black trash bag!

  10. #10

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    re"> OK, I have been asking around locally to some rather experienced builders and it is seriously looking as if my current skill level is a bit low to be attempting a SIG Ryan STA.  So rather than jumping deep off into a scratch build at this time I believe that I will start saving my pennies and nickels for a winter build this Fall.  Currently I'm moving in the direction of a De Havilland Beaver kit from Scalemodelers.com.  If I am still determined to build this plane when I scrape the money together, I will build it with standard landing gear and convertible to Floats and maybe even Skis.

    Thanks for the support so far,

    PSB.


    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  11. #11
    FlyerInOKC's Avatar
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    RE: Scratch Build Research


    ORIGINAL: PSB

    re''> OK, I have been asking around locally to some rather experienced builders and it is seriously looking as if my current skill level is a bit low to be attempting a SIG Ryan STA. Β*So rather than jumping deep off into a scratch build at this time I believe that I will start saving my pennies and nickels for a winter build this Fall. Β*Currently I'm moving in the direction of a De Havilland Beaver kit from Scalemodelers.com. Β*If I am still determined to build this plane when I scrape the money together, I will build it with standard landing gear and convertible to Floats and maybe even Skis.

    Thanks for the support so far,

    PSB.



    Why not scratch build the Beaver?
    Top Flite Brotherhood # 1
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    Founder and president of the Builders Slower Than a Dead Turtle Nailed to a Fence Post Association
    My bench where you always find the weird and unusual!
    I bought a reusable kit the other day, it came with it's own large black trash bag!

  12. #12

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    So Mike,

    Where would be a quality place to search for De Havilland Beaver Plans? Something that you don't have to be an areospace engineer to put together but that is well designed with plans that are easy to interpret. It would be helpful if I could also buy accessories later. Like Floats, Skis, Cowling, Wheel Pants, and maybe preformed windows. Being new with this interest in Scratch Building, it's hard to know where to turn for reputable resources.

    Thank,

    Perry
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  13. #13

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    PSB

    agree the SIG Ryan is a bit of a handfull, all the basic plastic parts dont help either, its alot of labour.

    Why not start small, try outerzone or HPA forums for free downloads of vintage planes.
    get a cessna or beaver or Cub etc. enlarge it a bit and build away, you can frame in a 40 to 50 inch basic for less than 20$ and learn alot without breaking the bank.
    P. Tritle has some laser cut parkfliers for under 100$, they are semi scratchbuilds and are cheap but can offer huge learning stones for build and flying.

  14. #14
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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    The Sig Ryan was a kit version of an original build by, I believe Claude McCullough (SP?), that was presented in the old Model Airplane News Magazine. And yes, it's a bit of a big bite from the buffet for a first time plans builder.

    On the magazine plans the model does not use all the plastic parts that SIG included. It's shown as all carved or built up from balsa. Cowl, wheelpants, etc. So it gives you an option.

    But in the meantime what about a simpler design? Like a classic light plane that was covered mostly with fabric?
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  15. #15
    FlyerInOKC's Avatar
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    RE: Scratch Build Research


    ORIGINAL: PSB

    So Mike,

    Where would be a quality place to search for De Havilland Beaver Plans? Β* Something that you don't have to be an areospace engineer to put together but that is well designed with plans that are easy to interpret. Β*It would be helpful if I could also buy accessories later. Β*Like Floats, Skis, Cowling, Wheel Pants, and maybe preformed windows. Β*Being new with this interest in Scratch Building, it's hard to know where to turn for reputable resources.

    Thank,

    Perry
    Sorry had a car accident earlier in the week so I have been out of pocket. I have been doing some thinking and I would like to suggest a Nick Uravitch Cessna C195. It is similar to the Beaver and I know from having purchased the plans sometime back it came with the cowling and windows from Rich. I think he even has a link for a laser short kit as well. For pants and cowlings I usually purchase from Fiberglass Specialties. I was also able to get a back issue of Model Airplanes News with the building article. Here is a photo and part of an article I found online (if it loaded)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Top Flite Brotherhood # 1
    Sig Brotherhood #21
    Ryan STA/STM/SC-M/W Brotherhood # 27
    SIG Kadet Brotherhood # 89
    Cub Brotherhood #179
    Goldberg Tiger # 73
    Vice President of the not so scale, almost ready to fly, soon to be scrap, Warbird brotherhood
    Founder and president of the Builders Slower Than a Dead Turtle Nailed to a Fence Post Association
    My bench where you always find the weird and unusual!
    I bought a reusable kit the other day, it came with it's own large black trash bag!

  16. #16

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Why not buy a kit of something and modify it some? I had a SIG 4 Star 40 that I modified the ailerons to barn door style, added slots and endplates then put a 'V' tail on it among other things. It flew just fine and was certainly different. I currently have a Goldberg Cub that I converted to a J-2 model. It required a curved fin and different window outlines. The nice thing is that the fin-fuselage covering junction (which is difficult to get 'right' on a J-3) isn't needed because the fin sits atop the squarish fuse! Lots of colors from which to choose, too! Doing these things teaches different skills vs just building a kit.

  17. #17

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    RE: Scratch Build Research


    ORIGINAL: FlyerInOKC


    ORIGINAL: PSB

    So Mike,

    Where would be a quality place to search for De Havilland Beaver Plans? Β* Something that you don't have to be an areospace engineer to put together but that is well designed with plans that are easy to interpret. Β*It would be helpful if I could also buy accessories later. Β*Like Floats, Skis, Cowling, Wheel Pants, and maybe preformed windows. Β*Being new with this interest in Scratch Building, it's hard to know where to turn for reputable resources.

    Thank,

    Perry
    Sorry had a car accident earlier in the week so I have been out of pocket. I have been doing some thinking and I would like to suggest a Nick Uravitch Cessna C195. It is similar to the Beaver and I know from having purchased the plans sometime back it came with the cowling and windows from Rich. I think he even has a link for a laser short kit as well. For pants and cowlings I usually purchase from Fiberglass Specialties. I was also able to get a back issue of Model Airplanes News with the building article. Here is a photo and part of an article I found online (if it loaded)

    thanks for posting this one, that is a nice little kit

  18. #18

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Mike,

    Sorry to hear about your accident. I hope no one was injured. If there was injury, I hope everyone is healing quickly.
    On the Airplane front, I am looking at a set of Plans fo a 48' Beaver that in 1965 were a Berkley Kit. None of the accessories are in production any longer. How would someone go about finding things like Windows? And, heck, if you've heard anything about this plane or plans, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.

    Thanks,
    Perry
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
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  19. #19

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    The Beaver is a simple design so the windows could be as basic as a 'flat wrap' of acetate or vivak sheet. You could build a plug to pull windows on a vacuum forming machine as the other end of the spectrum for fabrication.

  20. #20

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    I used to be intimidated by replacing or building from scratch when a design had side window but there is a very easy process that doesn't require vacuum forming. It simply requires making a female mold identical to the window opening and thickness and a slightly smaller plug the same thickness. To form the window with flange for mounting,

    Place a piece of wax paper on a cookie tray.
    Lay the male plug on the paper.
    On top, lay a piece of .015 PETK cut a half inch or so oversize the male plug all around.
    On that, position the female mold with equal around with about 1/32 gap around.
    On top of the female mold, lay a piece of smooth birch plywood.
    On top of the plywood, place a weight sufficient to drive the female mold down over the male plug when the PETK softens.
    Place in the oven on low heat and wait about twenty minutes and the weight will do the job.
    Remove the cookie sheet from the oven, let partially cool to a point where the male plug can be removed easily yet not mess with the window shape.
    Trim the flange for the wanted lip to glue the window pane into model.

    The process is quite simple and uses the home oven with no specialized setup and no fumes involved. I prefer to use a discarded crock pot oven that had a low heat setting and stay outa the kitchen but there are no fumes involved or mess made in the kitchen oven. It also uses a piece of stock only slightly larger than the window so a full sheet doesn't have to be used for each window.

    I found making the mold and plug to be easy from plywood the same thickenss as the window framing and if the windows are the same both sides of the plane, the mold and plug can be use for both and over and over again.

  21. #21

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Thanks for the Tip. This is a Keeper! Could be "Tip of the Month." I'll certainly give this a try when it comes for the window instalation.

    Thanks again,

    Perry
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
    Sig Brotherhood Member # 132

  22. #22

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    AA5BY,

    In this window mold trick, you mentioned using PTEK. It might just be me, but I seem to be having touble finding PTEK. Can this Trick be performed using "Lexan"?

    Thanks again,

    Perry
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
    Sig Brotherhood Member # 132

  23. #23

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Ok, I'm jumping in!  I have acquired a set of plans through Outerzone, of the De Havilland Beaver.  48" ws.  This will be my 1st Scratch Build from plans.  I'm excited.  I currently have a kit project on the table so it will be a while before I start the Scratch build.  Before I do I' will probably post many questions to prepare.  I may even get very brave and try to do a build thread when the project starts.  Thanks to all of you for your inspiration.  Hopefully I will build something that will fly!

    Perry
    PSB, Club Saito Member #817
    Sig Brotherhood Member # 132

  24. #24

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    My apology... a senior moment I guess. It is PETG rather than PETK and I've always obtained it at the LHS. What I've been getting is from K&S Engineering, Chicago. You will want the .015 thousands thick and the sheets I get are 9"x12". If you order, you might also get a pack (2 pieces) of .030, which will be a better thickness for a plane with an open cockpit windscreen or overhead window in a Taylorcraft or the like.

    Web site is ksmetals.com
    phone 773-586-8503

  25. #25

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    RE: Scratch Build Research

    Perry... glad you found the plans you desired. I like to have some time to acquire the necessities of the build.


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