ahdflyer

Hello Good People,

I am new to this site and find it to be fabulous. The variety of interests and categories is great.
I came looking for new info about building with foam core board (aka art board). This material is comprised of a sheet of stiff foam sandwiched between dense cardboard. When I began building with this material it was difficult to acquire. It is now available at Staples, Walmart, etc. And it is cheeeeap! $1-3.00 a 24"x 30" sheet. 3-4 needed per plane.
Despite these qualities, and the occasional article in the RC publications, very few people seem to be aware of it. When I bring a model constructed with FCB to the field and the typical "what is it, what is it made of, how much did it cost" type questions begin people listen to my answers and believe I have lost my mind.
Now a $5000 jet is nothing short of a tangible *gasm, but as we all know, good things always come to an end. And I am not ready to take that plunge. I like the "$50 fly it like you stole it" category of plane. When (when, not if) it crashes, I give it a sincere "oops" and move on to the next one. No angst, regrets, or heartbreak.
So, are there any FCBers out there?

P.S. I am not a "crash master." The average age of my planes(4) is 11 yrs.

Scientific progress goes "boink."

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Check out SPADs. They are basically coreplast/foamcore planes, or planes made from inexpensive materials. I think they even have thier own section on RCU. Not exacly my style, but many seem to like 'em just fine.

regmason

My Feedback: (2)

All ducks are made of foam-board! Including my Agri-duck.

Reg Mason


PS: That is a monokote covering job. Most were probably painted with house paint. Foam-board loves monokote!

Tattoo

The use of this stuff is getting huge with electrics, here's and example:
http://www.foamyfactory.com

jettstarblue

Built many from this material! Once there was a plan in (I believe) M.A.N. for a 1/2A Sukoi (sp) built from balsa, and lite ply, I had some of the foam core on hand, and I used the general outlind from the plans, some scrap ice cream cone- er, I mean lite ply, and built it in 6 hrs. using "shoe goo" and hot glue as the glue. Testors paint. A "gilbert" .061 engine- (11.00 from Tower close out) for the engine, a Futaba 2 channel for the radio. Grand total- around 60 bucks. It withstood 3 really bad handlaunches/cartwheels/dustclouds (thanks Tony) and then flew 'til the engine wore out. (admittedly, 25-30 flights? not real long, the plane was still flyable, not the engine)
Also, great stuff for quick build delta's!

Jetts

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

Electric flyers use foam core and the same foam without the paper covering for a LOT of stuff. If you're really interested in sharing info on the technology, try http://www.ezonemag.com/ and do a search for "Fan Fold Foam" or maybe even "F3". E flyers require light weight materials and use most anything they can get their hands on.

If you're using glow power, you might not want to mention it. It's truly amazing how disliked we "slimers" are. I got along over there okay, simply because I fly both. Guess they tolerated me in the hopes of making me a true convert.

(I'm only half serious by the way.)
Dennis-

ahdflyer

Thanks for the pics. This is the way we are using FCB. No slight intended to the SPAD folks, but we try to achieve planes with a "smoother" appearance. Pictures are of my F7u-3. Structure is 85%+ FCB. 44"WS, 650sq", K&B .61(pusher), monokote, 7.75lbs.
Cost: about $50. The red and yellow "stick" model is a typical trainer we build (.40 size). Cost: $30.
Our comparisons show a 10% weight penalty with FCB vs. traditional balsa construction. How does this compare with your results?

Scotty J

regmason

My Feedback: (2)

Nice looking jets! Will pass along pics to some of my club buddies who may be interested in an FCB project. The Agri-duck was a one-shot kit purchase from Mr. Chipley, so I never even weighed the big fat sucker. I know it feels very light for such a whale, as the interior is entirely hollow. No internal bracing or wood formers. All the strength is in the walls. The only problem with this plane is that when the engine dies, it glides like a manhole cover, which is tough on the landing gear, even with the big fat 10" inner tube tires. But it was sure popular at the field, especially with kids.

Reg Mason

jettstarblue

As far as the two types of foam here, "art board" is heavier than "fan fold" (pink) and "fan fold" is very slightly heavier than "blue core" (the blue stuff with the skin on it). I've weighed samples of each on a triple beam scale, they (blue and pink) come in around the same as Sig balsa for a given thickness/size.
"art board" is much stiffer, but the paper isn't to fuel proof, or it absorbs the residue, the other two don't.
I've built electrics with art board, but not the best- the other two are better for that. The art board models I've made required only minimal ply.
This is a long winded way of saying if I built balsa models like I built art board models the balsa ones would weigh less...... However, the artboard models I've built use a different technique, and are generally lighter.

Jetts

ahdflyer

Good info on empirical weight comparisons. I agree with your views on fan-fold for electrics, it is a more appropriate material. All of our FCB projects are covered, usually with monokote or equivalent. The paper sheeting is an excellent base for adhering iron on coverings.
Regarding construction techniques, how far have you pushed the aspect of reducing internal structures with FCB? I have seen plans w/o ANY internal wing spars. As we fly .40 & .60 power we have been reluctant to not include wood wing spars. We typically remove the paper sheeting from the internal side of most structures (necessary for good curved surfaces and less weight on straight areas.
Thanks to all for the input.

Scotty J

ahdflyer

Thanks Reg,

The Duck is a very cool project also. I understand the glide ratio thing. With power this lawn dart looking F7u is tough to slow down, but loose the engine and you better be over the field 'cause you are coming down right now. Must be the large faux intakes.

Scotty J

Al Stein

Fanfold question then...
How's the price on it? Are we talking about the foil backed insulation at the home improvement stores?

jettstarblue

O.K., here we go, the planes I have built with "FCB" I have just used the bulkhead locations, and replaced the wood with FCB, except for the M/M and L/G hard points. As for the wings I use yardsticks, but may try using FCB spars on the lighter ones. No sense taking chances for the 0z. or two of weight savings. For the curved surfaces, I use a "screen roller" used for putting the screen bead in storm doors/windows. It looks like a pizza cutter, but the wheel is made of plastic, use a straight edge, and make "score lines" on the inside of the curve. (available at most Ace/Home Depot/Lowe's)
As for the "fanfold/bluecore" It's 25 bucks for a "bundle" which is I believe 20(24?) 2'X4' sheets- in other word a LOT of material. One bundle will last you uh let's see.... many several models!
The foil backed stuff is much more expensive per square foot, fairly brittle, (don't try to bend it- at all!) but can be used if you use a lot of tape to re-inforce it. Here's a picture of an 88" span delta I built with the foil backed stuff. 4 1/2 lbs., .52 FS for power, 4" drainpipe (light duty) for the fuse. Can you say giant scale park flyer?[X(] Knew ya could.
The second is one I'm building using a .40 trainer fuselage for the basis. (The guy who owns it broke the wing.)

Jetts

Quicker

I've been using foam board for about 2 years for glow powered planes, mostly SPAD type designs. My latest are powered by MDS 68's (over powered, but fun) and have 55 inch spans. I've also flown them with 40's for power:





Here are some 25 and 40 powered planes I built:





These are made from the paper covered craft type foam board from a local Hobby Lobbycraft store. To fuel proof them I usually cover them with sign vinyl from a local sign shop. I'm getting it for $1.50/yard in 15 inch wide rolls, which works well since most of my cords are 15 inches or less. The checkered decals are printed on my inkjet printer , then stuck on with 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. I then cover them with clear packing tape. Spars are usually yardsticks. Bulkheads have been ply or foamboard.

More information and building techinques can be found at my website:
[link=http://rcsites.net/qcoldir/]http://rcsites.net/qcoldir/[/link]

I think this stuff is great for planes. It's cheap and easy to work with.

jettstarblue

SWEET!

Quicker

ahdflyer:

how do you remove the paper off the one side? To get a curve, I've been slitting the paper from the leading eadge of the wing to about 1 or 2 inches past the spar. The slits are about 1/8 to 1/4 inches apart running spanwise, not cordwise. This lets the top form a nice curve, giving me a very flat bottom Clark Y style airfoil. It works weel, but I'd like to save some weight, which I think is all in the paper.

look at my website, where I have a detailed picture of what I do:
[link=http://www.rcsites.net/qcoldir/plans/lowwing/lowwing_wing.gif]http://www.rcsites.net/qcoldir/plans/lowwing/lowwing_wing.gif[/link]
[link=http://rcsites.net/qcoldir]http://rcsites.net/qcoldir[/link]

I've just made a few fully symetrical airfoils by slitting the top and bottom. Very nice.

ahdflyer

Hi Folks,
Just got back into town. These are some great pics and projects. Thanks to Jettstarblue for the construction input. Our bunch is doing pretty much what you outlined.
To Quicker, how to remove the paper from one side of FCB:
Start by laying your sheet of material on a smooth, soft (covering the work area with a bath towel works well) work area. Beginning at a corner, peel the paper away from the FCB. It will peel off in a random fashion. Sometimes large areas will come away all the way to the foam. Sometimes only the upper layers of the paper will peel off. Remove as much as will easily come off in this manner. Next, apply water (warm is quicker, a wash cloth makes a good applicator) to the top side that you have been peeling. You can get the paper as wet as you like, just do not let any water run under to the future exterior side. The moisture will cause the adhesive used between the paper and the foam to separate. You can "roll" it off the foam with your fingers. With a bit of work you can remove all paper from the sheet in this manner.
With the paper on only one side, the material follows curves easily and has no "lines" from slits or creases. For stabs and such, you get the appropriate thickness and strength without the extra unnecessary paper in the middle.

Scotty J

ahdflyer

Hey Quicker,
Forgot to ask, tell me about the sign vinyl material you are using for covering. Is it self-adhesive? Does it stretch? Is it suitable for open areas? etc.

Scotty J

ultraviper

To remove the paper, just use a hairdryer to warm up the surface and you should be able to "peel" off the paper backing without damaging the foam. Just be carefull not to "overheat" otherwise the foam could melt.

ahdflyer

Interesting. I will try that tonight.

ultraviper

Hey I'de like to show you guys a few pics of the Airbus A400M I'm building with Art Board and Balsa, but I can't figure out how to add the pictures

ultraviper

I think I found it

[img]C:\Documents and Settings\Dany\My Documents\My Pictures\Modelbouw[/img]

Above should be a picture if I did it right

ultraviper

And, no it didn t work... sorry guys

ahdflyer

[quote]ORIGINAL: ultraviper

And, no it didn t work... sorry guys

Ultraviper,
You may need to do a search in the forums for "trouble posting phots" but here a my ideas.
First, do not try to upload a large photo. A 50Mb .jpg is not unusual for a high resolution photo but it will take several hours to transfer over a dial-up internet link. Try to keep your image file size below 1 Mb. Actually, you probably need to post photos at less than 100 kb. If someone wishes to see better images the two of you can e-mail and arrange for transfers appropriate to your internet speeds.
This caused problems for me at first; to upload your image it needs to be in a standardized format (.jpg, .bmp, etc.). Forgive me if you are more computer savy than this, I try to start with simple instructions till I better understand the skill level of the person I am communicating with.
I just tried to post using the "Reply" tab and there was no "Upload Images" button. Using the "Quote" tab it does show up.
OK, so from the forum, click on "Quote", type your text, click on "Upload Images" which will open a browser window. You obviously browsed to the image file (C:\Documents and Settings\Dany\My Documents\My Pictures\Modelbouw). The browser window will allow you to select your image file and begin uploading it to the RCU server. Here is where I had trouble; it may take some time to complete the transfer (at 37bps/typical dialup speed it will take 5-15 minutes to upload a 1 Mb file; 1-2 minutes for a 100kb file). Ther is no progress bar, if you click out of the screen before it shows a pop up stating "Completed" the transfer will fail, so give it the time needed.
Can't wait to see you pictures.

Scotty J

For reference, the attached photos are about 150 kb each. Taken with a 2.5 megapixel camera at 640 X 480 resolution.

Quicker

Sorry about the delay. I didn't track this thread.

I get the sign vinyl at a local sign supply wholesaler. If you can find one it is a LOT cheaper than buying from a sign shop. My local wholesaler has a discount bin where I've been getting my blue,red and some other basic colors for $1.50/yard. The normal price from them for non-discount stuff ranges from $2.5 to $3.5/yard. The specialty stuff (mirror chrome is WAY cool) is $5 or $6 /yard.

They had different widths, but I've been buying it in 15 inch wide chunks, usually 6 to 15 feet at a time. Most of my wing cords are 12 inches or under so I can cover a wing in 2 passes if I do a solid color (one for top and one for bottom).

The stuff is self adhesive, just peel the backing off and go. A guy weighed the 3 year stuff and said it weighed about .25oz/sq ft. Don't know what the 5 year stuff weighs. It will shrink with heat too, but be careful as too much heat will ruin the foamboard.

I think it is suitable for open areas. I've covered open wingtips, etc. with it with no problems. I haven't tried covering something like a standard balsa built up wing, though.