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RC plane for security usage

Old 12-30-2003, 06:36 AM
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amirmk
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Default RC plane for security usage

Hello,
I work for a company who makes special systems for the military. While not highly guarded, our facilities need better video monitoring capabilities, without using big and stationary camera polls.
Is there a way for an RC plane/helicopter/zeppelin to fly for couple of hours a day, loaded with 7KG security and broadcast equipment?
Old 12-30-2003, 11:15 AM
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Boogie
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Yes there is !! Just search in the internet on google for aero design. Those are planes of wingspan of 100 inches or more powered by os max 61fx and can carry up to 27lbs.
Old 12-30-2003, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Topic moved from Gliders and Sailplanes...

_________________________________________________

Models would not be a feasible solution for your problem. First off you would need a SKILLED pilot to fly the model or at least monitor the position if you attempted to use an automatic GPS controlled system. And the requirements of the size of the "model" to carry 7 kg of gear PLUS the fuel required would take such a project well out of the typical model sizes. The size of craft needed to perform what you describe would be well up into the league of the latest smaller to medium sized military UAV craft. Then there is the fact that the required 15 t0 20 foot span aircraft that would be needed to carry all that stuff for that amount of time would be quite the eyesore and earsore as it buzzed noisily around the neighbourhood. I don't even want to think about the damage such a craft would do if control was lost and it crashed into a person, car or home. Cost wise, complexity wise and operating ease wise and manpower wise using a blimp or model aircraft for such a purpose makes no sense at all.

The models Boogie is reffering to are special purpose load carrying models designed by university students as study projects to just barely get off the ground with maximum payloads for short times. They are NOT viable designs for day to day regular missions such as you are suggesting. (sorry to rain on your answer Boogie.)

A blimp may have possibilities but here again if you are sure about the 7 kg of gear or even close then the size of blimp to lift that weight will be quite large. Wind strengths would pretty much require that such a blimp not be free flying but rather it would be tethered to simplify operations. But the image would then be subject to turbulence unless image stabilization was used (same situation with an aircraft for that matter). And a suitable sized blimp for that payload will be a definite eyesore what with it's requirement to be about 30 to 40 feet long. Medium to high winds will also ground it which would compromise the need for ongoing and RELIABLE security.

Fixed cameras mounted on buildings and fence posts are a much simpler and easier system that would prove infinitely more reliable. This is just NOT a good application for model or UAV use unless you can get the military on side and your grounds occupy a very large and difficult to patrol area. At that point a military UAV MAY fit the bill but you would have to weigh the operating difficulties and costs to the fixed camera costs.
Old 12-30-2003, 11:27 PM
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e=mc2
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Maybe you will be able to use this some day!

[link=http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/31829.html]http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/31829.html[/link]

e=mc2
Old 12-31-2003, 09:56 AM
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amirmk
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

thank you all.

i wasn't talking about a plane or a helicopter. Nor UAV, those are not designed for this kind of mission, we know - We build UAVs.
We actually build the most amazing one, the HARPI.

I was talking about something like a hot air ballon or a Zeppelin styled machine, that can be controlled by one of our guidance computers.
I don't need it to be fast or highly maneuverable. just to fly at night for couple of hours, carrying 3 IR cameras, and radio equipment for video signal.
Old 12-31-2003, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Amirmk,

Visit this site: http://www.myairship.com/rcblimp/

This should give you some resources and a couple hours of reading. The Blimp/Airship is the only way that I can see for you to achieve what you are planning. Probably something in the 25 to 30 foot range.

If you would like further information, please contact me by email or PM.
Old 12-31-2003, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

The volume of helium required to lift your package, plus motors and batteries or engines and fuel is easy to determine but you would still have to deal with the downtime from high winds preventing the flight of an LTA craft. Obviously if you're with IAI you have the technology to make the guidance package work but if your region experiences high winds or 20 kph or more on a regular basis then the design of a suitable blimp will be harder and it will be more difficult to fly well and require much more smarts to be built into the guidance program to deal with the vertical components of the wind effects. Not to mention the difficulties of aiming the cameras on a platform that may be bucking around like a wild horse during even moderate winds.

I still say this is a task much better handled by fixed site cameras.
Old 12-31-2003, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

I think a tethered blimp would fit your bill. Take a look at the ones there using along the border. I've been working the last several weeks on a project similar to HARPI and you an dI both know that stabilization is not a problem. The reason I suggest the tethered blimp is that you would not have to contend with the wind factor as much. I do some research on those border blimps to get a better understanding.
Old 01-01-2004, 02:00 PM
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amirmk
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

The blimps we are usign across the border is exatcly what what we are trying to get (IAI Elta's Border control), but in reduced size, weight and price. The guidance and the gyros are no problem, it's the blimp that gives us hard time.

30 feet of blimp? that's the size of a bus, and the size of the blimps used in intelligence and wide area monitoring, not for the 250 men factory with some testing field.

We don't have 20MPH winds around here, not even close. Snow is not a problem as well.

we have been talking to a european constructor who suggested us using electric gear that is powerd from the ground, what do you think of that?
Old 01-01-2004, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

like the idea of ground power. This would free you from carrying the additional weight and would give you the duration expected. Have you been in contact with Polks Polymers as I believe they were doing sizes in which you may be able to adapt.
Old 01-01-2004, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

The airship will need to be made of self-sealing fabric... Northrop at their Hawthorne plant had a "guard" in a tower in a parking lot.. Guard was a mannikin, and he collected a lot of bullets!
Anything fixed for any period of time will be attacked, either frivolously or seriously... I think it would "serious" in Israel.
Depending on the tether system, the airship could be manuvered to "areas of interest" fairly easily, with a three-wire tether.
Old 01-01-2004, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Amirmk,

To lift 7 Kilos, you will need something in the 450 cu/ft range, which is between 21 and 25 feet, unpowered. Depending on the power package that you want, you will have to factor that weight in also....hence 30 feet.......If you are thinking of tether, with power on the ground, the blimp will have to support the weight of the cable providing the power or telemetry. The ground station would probably the first target of the intruder.

There are many airship/blimp manufacturers in this market, and they are not cheap.

In reference to bullet holes, a helium blimp is very low pressure, and will not drop out of the sky with a few bullet holes.....is this something that you would like to fly un-attended.....for the expense, put on a couple more guards..........
Old 01-01-2004, 06:24 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Something like this....
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Old 01-02-2004, 07:01 AM
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amirmk
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

25 foot is impossible. Way too big. Maybe splitting the equipment to two blimps? two 15 foot blimps are better idea.
We don't need it bullet proof, nor criticaly durable (there are dozen armed guards).
I like the two cable idea, maybe running it from two ground building is good. can trucks be used?
It will not be attacked. There is no reason. But we carry hydrogen and Jet petrol in our facilities, materials that should be guarded.
Old 01-02-2004, 12:39 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

There's actually 3 cables.. the sketch doesn't show that clearly. Three permits controlled lateral motion.
With the cable reels above ground level at roof tops, the system is less susceptible to "interference" by interested parties.
And the airspace it operates in will be clear of obstructions.
Ground-based/truck mounted will have to be concerned with traffic paths for movement of the vehicles without snagging the cables on buildings, poles....
The coverage of the camera(s) can be adjusted to get those areas usually "shadowed" in fixed installations, such as directly beneath the camera; bases of buildings not in direct view of a fixed camera.. and its schedule can be randomized.
Old 01-02-2004, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

You would probably be better off running the camera "pod" on a trolley cable system and forget the blimp.....remember, the blimp will have to lift whatever tethers it to the ground, and "CABLE" will be out of the question anyway...something more along the lines of 500lb parachute cord......
Old 01-02-2004, 04:39 PM
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amirmk
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

Thank you all for the replies. Our guys came up with a new idea, that will work better.
I didn't describe the compound, so the problems you have talked about are mostly not problems.
This is a compound which takes 15 minutes to circle by car, it's a huge test area. There is no traffic there. Let alone pedestrians.
Old 01-02-2004, 09:34 PM
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Tall Paul
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

In actuality, I think littering the perimeter with motion sensors and IR detectors would be sufficient..and a lot cheaper, and easier to maintain.
Old 01-03-2004, 02:26 PM
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amirmk
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Default RE: RC plane for security usage

We have IR sensors, we need bird's eye view of the compund, due to attempts to steal some equipment, which ended up with 3 thieves shot in their behinds. We are testing an airplane which uses a metal cable to fly around in circles and send down the images. We should do couple of experiments, and then decide.

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