Custer Channelwing
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Custer Channelwing
Greetings all,
Has anyone tried to make a Custer Channelwing r/c concept?
For more details please visit [link=http://www.custerchannelwing.com]www.custerchannelwing.com[/link]
e=mc2
Has anyone tried to make a Custer Channelwing r/c concept?
For more details please visit [link=http://www.custerchannelwing.com]www.custerchannelwing.com[/link]
e=mc2
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RE: Custer Channelwing
That site makes for some interesting reading.
It wouldn't be hard to fabricate a custer channel with engine and place it on a pivoted arm that sits on a scale. Start the engine and see how much weight comes off the scale.
Doing it directly on a model without any testing like the above would not be a fair test. Too many of our typical RC models are grossly overpowered and it would be very hard to determine if the model was flying better BECAUSE of the Custer channels or IN SPITE of them.
I must admit that I'm very intrigued. Thanks for the link and resufacing this interesting concept.
It wouldn't be hard to fabricate a custer channel with engine and place it on a pivoted arm that sits on a scale. Start the engine and see how much weight comes off the scale.
Doing it directly on a model without any testing like the above would not be a fair test. Too many of our typical RC models are grossly overpowered and it would be very hard to determine if the model was flying better BECAUSE of the Custer channels or IN SPITE of them.
I must admit that I'm very intrigued. Thanks for the link and resufacing this interesting concept.
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RE: Custer Channelwing
Was an article back in the May 1977 edition of AIRPOWER magazine about the Custer series. Most were duals, but there was a single engine also. The issue also has a few plans, of poor quality too.
From reading the information, the situation was that the tip of the propeller has to be very close to the U section for the effect to take place. This would be the real challenge due to vibations, as there is also a need to make the engine mount with minimal disturbances to the air around it. Most of the early designs were models built during the early 1940's and wonder how they solved the vibration problems then. Perhaps the use of high RPM electric motors would solve the vibration considerations.
An interesting concept to which I had been thinking of for some time.
Wm.
From reading the information, the situation was that the tip of the propeller has to be very close to the U section for the effect to take place. This would be the real challenge due to vibations, as there is also a need to make the engine mount with minimal disturbances to the air around it. Most of the early designs were models built during the early 1940's and wonder how they solved the vibration problems then. Perhaps the use of high RPM electric motors would solve the vibration considerations.
An interesting concept to which I had been thinking of for some time.
Wm.
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RE: Custer Channelwing
Well, I'm skeptical about it as well. It seems to me that there are a lot of really intelligent people in the world and even if the "design team is still intact" anything that had the performance that is claimed would have prompted somebody to try to duplicate it, don't you think? Also, they claim that it had flight characteristics of a fighter, but according to the site, it's an awfully slow plane. I didn't look at the dates this thing was developed, but maybe at that time it did so it may be a moot point.
Still looks cool though.
Still looks cool though.
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RE: Custer Channelwing
Skeptical? So am I but this is a pretty convincing picture....
And in the Facts link the data from the Langley test facility tends to show that this is quite possibly a usable phenomenon.
I'm intrigued enough that I think I'm going to have to put my wood lathe to work to make up a Custer channel test rig. Make a ring, cut it in half, mount an electric motor or 049 and set the channel onto a pivoted arm such that the arm prevents the channel from moving forward but has a leg that rests on a weight scale.
If this actually works I could see a VSTOL type model that has roll control vanes in the engine prop blasts and a twin rudder type tail that puts the elevator and rudder into the prop blasts. A stilty landing gear to set the model up to a high angle to accentuate the lift...... Hmmmmmm
And in the Facts link the data from the Langley test facility tends to show that this is quite possibly a usable phenomenon.
I'm intrigued enough that I think I'm going to have to put my wood lathe to work to make up a Custer channel test rig. Make a ring, cut it in half, mount an electric motor or 049 and set the channel onto a pivoted arm such that the arm prevents the channel from moving forward but has a leg that rests on a weight scale.
If this actually works I could see a VSTOL type model that has roll control vanes in the engine prop blasts and a twin rudder type tail that puts the elevator and rudder into the prop blasts. A stilty landing gear to set the model up to a high angle to accentuate the lift...... Hmmmmmm
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RE: Custer Channelwing
Bruce - I'm not skeptical that it flies and I don't know jack about full scale planes as far as horsepower loading goes. So I'm assuming the numbers posted are pretty good since they're bragging with them. It just seems to me that if it were viable and as efficient as they claim that somebody would be building something very similar by now. But I do believe it flies and that it probably flies well. It looks like it should fly.
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RE: Custer Channelwing
I know just what you mean CM but it wouldn't be the first time that someone that didn't communicate well with the brass got buried in the archives. Given what we know about the Avro Arrow and the Nike missle issue here in Canada I would not even be surprised if a little favour trading was not done in regards to squashing the deal Custer tried to strike with Noordyun. If Custer ticked off enough people I can see something like that happening.
The thing that gets me is that they are showing some fairly decent lift figures with ZERO airspeed. That has GOT to be worth an evening of my time to make up a test rig.
The thing that gets me is that they are showing some fairly decent lift figures with ZERO airspeed. That has GOT to be worth an evening of my time to make up a test rig.
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RE: Custer Channelwing
Thank you all for the responses.
Before you go building this stuff maybe there is something else you should consider.
Here is a link to a 1986 patent on a similar concept of the channel wing but no channel!
[link=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=channelwing&OS=channelwing&RS=channelwing]http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=channelwing&OS=channelwing&RS=channelwing[/link]
This idea takes care of some of structure/vibration the problems that you all anticipate. Unfortunately you have to pay for the full patent document but the free images are pretty self explanatory as well. (Note: the images need quicktime to be installed on your computer)
Enjoy!
e=mc2
Before you go building this stuff maybe there is something else you should consider.
Here is a link to a 1986 patent on a similar concept of the channel wing but no channel!
[link=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=channelwing&OS=channelwing&RS=channelwing]http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=channelwing&OS=channelwing&RS=channelwing[/link]
This idea takes care of some of structure/vibration the problems that you all anticipate. Unfortunately you have to pay for the full patent document but the free images are pretty self explanatory as well. (Note: the images need quicktime to be installed on your computer)
Enjoy!
e=mc2
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RE: Custer Channelwing
HELLO MASS ENERGY,
I'M LOOKING INTO CHANNELWING FOR UTILITY STOL
THAT CAN LIFT COUPLE TONS
SMALL FLYING BOX WITH FULL REAR OPENING
TWIN BOOM, TWIN RUDDERS, TWIN ELEVATORS
TWIN ZOCHE AERODIESELS ON TOP OF WING
CLOSE TO MAIN BODY
COULD CHANNELWING UP TOP HELP?
THERE IS NO VIBRATION TO ZOCHE 2 STROKES
I CAN NOT FIND 1986 PATENT ADDY
ANY HELP HERE APPRECIATED
THANK YOU BILL DRAKE
I'M LOOKING INTO CHANNELWING FOR UTILITY STOL
THAT CAN LIFT COUPLE TONS
SMALL FLYING BOX WITH FULL REAR OPENING
TWIN BOOM, TWIN RUDDERS, TWIN ELEVATORS
TWIN ZOCHE AERODIESELS ON TOP OF WING
CLOSE TO MAIN BODY
COULD CHANNELWING UP TOP HELP?
THERE IS NO VIBRATION TO ZOCHE 2 STROKES
I CAN NOT FIND 1986 PATENT ADDY
ANY HELP HERE APPRECIATED
THANK YOU BILL DRAKE
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RE: Custer Channelwing
utohac, You're asking about a scale of research that is far beyond what this model related site is all about. As you see in all the posts there is a lot of conjecture with no real supportive testing and even the full sized channelwing site has very little hard documentation to go by. You're on your own and would need to do your own testing to determine if this would help your cause or not.