Notices
Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD If you are starting/building a project from scratch or want to discuss design, CAD or even share 3D design images this is the place. Q&A's.

3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

Old 02-07-2004, 10:25 PM
  #1  
Spitguy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ancaster, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

Hi:

I'm an interloper from the 2/3-3/4 ('humungus') scale with an interest in developing a set of 3D plans in aluminum.

After monitoring the traffic in RC discussions it is clear that development by hobbyists has jumped right over what we call the 'homebuilt' crowd interested in building their own flying machine.

One of the key developments of course has been the development of 3D models (I don't mean 3 view) both for the home flight simulation folks and for those interested in building solid/ perhaps RC models. As I understand it, CATIA is the software of choice in the aerospace industry and perhaps Solid Works or Inventor at the, let me coin a phrase, the RC scale.

What I would like to ask is 'Is there any (good) 3D model out there that we could perhaps use to flesh out a design at a larger scale.

We know, or at least think we know, how to develop a load envelop around such an aircraft at the scale we are interested in, and can do a stress analysis on the key elements. The game is to drop into it proven (small aluminum, 'high' thrust/weight, 'low' weight/area) aircraft design. Given a true outer 3D geometry might just prove useful.

Any suggestions, hints etc. Detractors needn't bother.

Incidently I did a survey of Spitfires, using thrust/weight and weight/area as parameters to characterize performance and found a Reynolds number effect (Re^-1/2) mainly by taking data from the 20/25% scale in conjunction with full scale. Thought you might like to know. I was amazed at you cruise/landing speeds based on massive thrust/weight and low wing loadings.!!
BTW out Re values are about 6, full scale 18, RC (1/4) about .25 million if memory serves me correctly.

Cheers.


Bryan Kerman
Old 02-07-2004, 11:41 PM
  #2  
Tall Paul
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Palmdale, CA
Posts: 5,211
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

You want to build a scaled-down man-carrying Spitfire, with the outside having no deviations from the full-scale?
I think it might be possible, but you might have problems fitting a person in the fuselage.
You might have to start from the inside... people dimensions, and fit the plane around the pilot.
I've seen a really nice FW-190 to 1/2 scale or so, it can be done.
The more vertical pilot location in the Spit might be a problem.
Old 02-08-2004, 12:41 AM
  #3  
BMatthews
 
BMatthews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chilliwack, BC, CANADA
Posts: 12,425
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 19 Posts
Default RE: 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

Spitguy, you seem to be bouncing all over the place. Check me on this. Amongst all that you're asking about TWO projects? A man carrying 3D aerobatic design based on our model 3D designs for one. And a reduced size Spitfire scale model for the other?

Or is it a 3D Spitfire you want? If separate then I can see how they may work. If combined into one 3D capable Spitfire replica then I think you'll have problems. The aerodynamics of the typical 3D model don't fit the Spitfire outlines. In any event 2/3 or 3/4 scale Spitfires have been done before in the homebuilt world.

Another issue as well. The 3D flyers think nothing of balancing their models right on the neutral point. A practice that isn't allowed in full scale man carrying aircraft AFAIK. Current world champ aerobatic mounts being one possible exception. Basically you'll be wanting a shorter span and wider chord Sukoi or Yak with even LARGER movable surfaces since that's pretty much what we are using in the model world once you go beyond the smaller parkflyer models. Will the pilot have the muscles to maintain control over surfaces of that size?
Old 02-08-2004, 07:15 AM
  #4  
DICKEYBIRD
Senior Member
 
DICKEYBIRD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

You mean like one of these? http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/ Everybody needs one of those puppies!
Old 02-08-2004, 09:53 AM
  #5  
Spitguy
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ancaster, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

There are people out there who take their life in their hands and fly replicas ranging from 60 % up to 100 %. Some names you can check out are Jurca, Isaacs, Thunder Wings, Tally Ho and you might drop in on Spitfire replicas on yahoo. Better yet you could go to Spitfirebuilder.4t. There you can get some idea of what's possible at a larger scale than you are used to.

The machine by Ferguson took a very talented guy 12 years to put together. It's a work of art. 215 mph top speed so far.

My situation is that I'm trying to think how one would go about building a 70% aluminum Spit replica if you don't have the $50k for the Supermarine kit.

I have done sizing and weight studies and have found that a 70% replica would be appropriately sized and 'balanceable' and work with the power units available (about 200 hp). The immediate problem is whether to develop my plans in 2D CAD or in 3D (Solid Works, Inventor etc).

My reason for inquiring in this forum is that there may be some 3D shell done for a flight simulator (check out JSBsim, ask him what he/his group of aero-engs etc need to do to achieve a Spitfire simulator) or one for a good RC scale that could serve as a starting point for the exterior geometry. We can worry about defining the force envelop, control authority at scale etc.

What we will end up with is something like an RV3/4/8 (check out vans aircraft), weighing about 1300-1500 lbs cruising at about 180-190 mph. Anyone want to change scale?

And I repeat my question - 'Does anyone know of a good 3D model of a Spitfire?'

Bryan Kerma
Old 02-08-2004, 08:32 PM
  #6  
CoosBayLumber
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Bernardino Calif
Posts: 3,757
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: 3D drawing for a Spitfire 9

There was a web site based in Russia that had plans for download of a Spit-9 in Autocad R-14. The views and sections were all supposedly true to size, and I noticed X-Y-Z coordinates on many of the items. These could then be reloaded and set into 3-D. These could easily then be used as a basis to begin your work. The site also had a Piper Cub, which I did download, not all the other things listed.


Unfortunately, as of 1-2 months ago the site was closed. It may have a new address though.


Wm.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.