Starting Scratch Building
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Starting Scratch Building
Hi
I want to have a go a scratch building a model, up until now I have relied upon ARTF but now want to expand into more unusual projects. I need to learn about construction techniques, materials, glues, fuselage and wing jigs to mention but a few things. If anyone can offer me any help it would be appreciated or recommend titles of books to buy/web sites to visit. I want above all to make sure that the planes I'll build will be safe.
Many thanks
Lee
I want to have a go a scratch building a model, up until now I have relied upon ARTF but now want to expand into more unusual projects. I need to learn about construction techniques, materials, glues, fuselage and wing jigs to mention but a few things. If anyone can offer me any help it would be appreciated or recommend titles of books to buy/web sites to visit. I want above all to make sure that the planes I'll build will be safe.
Many thanks
Lee
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
RCM and MAN both have a book section in them. they each sell books on scratch building. There is a series of books by Harry Higley that may be of use. I even think Tower has a bunch as well. Get a few books and read up. When you run into problems just drop by here. I'm sure you will get your questions answered. I would suggest buying a few plans that interest you and build from a set of plans just to get in shape for your project. RCM has a huge selection of very good and nicly priced plans. Give them a look.
Mark Shuman
Mark Shuman
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Before scratch building... it is better to build a couple of kits. The kit instructions wil have some tips on how to do things that are not found on the plan sets sold for scratch builders. The appropriate tip is given at the appropriate step of construction.
Some people improperly call kit-building scratch building..... and that leads to confusion.
The assorted levels are:
RTF = ready to fly (usually needs an hour or two of work but some really just need the batteries charged.)
ARF = Almost Ready to fly. Generally a few glue joints and install the radio and engine.
ARC = Almost ready to cover. An ARF that hasn't been covered yet.
Kit = Box of parts and plans usually with an assembly guide booklet. Get out the glue... and find a good building area... this could take a couple of days to a couple of years.
Short Kit = The box has the plans and some prefab parts... but you have to go get the wood for the majority of the structure.
Scratch = You buy plans and then go buy the materials to build the thing. If you need a cowl... you have to make it or find a source for it. (also called Plans-built... Generally reffered to in magazines as "Scratch built from XXXXX plans")
Last is a special subset of Scratch built... the plane built by the designer in the process of verifying he designed a good airplane. It is "Scratch built from his own design" in the magazines... or "Designer Scale" at the Top Gun competition. The plane may be refered to as a Prototype in some cases. (as in when trying to test for a sellable kit)
Some people improperly call kit-building scratch building..... and that leads to confusion.
The assorted levels are:
RTF = ready to fly (usually needs an hour or two of work but some really just need the batteries charged.)
ARF = Almost Ready to fly. Generally a few glue joints and install the radio and engine.
ARC = Almost ready to cover. An ARF that hasn't been covered yet.
Kit = Box of parts and plans usually with an assembly guide booklet. Get out the glue... and find a good building area... this could take a couple of days to a couple of years.
Short Kit = The box has the plans and some prefab parts... but you have to go get the wood for the majority of the structure.
Scratch = You buy plans and then go buy the materials to build the thing. If you need a cowl... you have to make it or find a source for it. (also called Plans-built... Generally reffered to in magazines as "Scratch built from XXXXX plans")
Last is a special subset of Scratch built... the plane built by the designer in the process of verifying he designed a good airplane. It is "Scratch built from his own design" in the magazines... or "Designer Scale" at the Top Gun competition. The plane may be refered to as a Prototype in some cases. (as in when trying to test for a sellable kit)
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Take a look at my site. I have all kinds of information for builders and most of what I do is scratch building, so it will probably be helpful to you.
Airfield Models
Airfield Models
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Scratch building is not for the weak. but it sure pays off at the field. NO BODY ELSE HAS ONE LIKE IT! don't try it until you have built many kits. it takes time and sometimes it turns out a lousy looking job and worse a bad flyer. you also have to have a basic background in drafting, automotive,aeromatical engineering, home building. when you complete the first one plan and build it--stand back and brag I DID IT ALL, MYSELF!!
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
but you don't always need plans to scratch build. probably a good 50% of the r/c models I've built were made up on the workbench.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Scratch building is not for the weak.....stand back and brag I DID IT ALL, MYSELF!!
If twopper starts with a basic scratch build plan like an Ugly Stik variation then I don't see any reason why he won't end up with a servicable model.
Just keep it basic and tackle each phase in order. Start by learning that not all balsa is created equal. And heavy balsa makes for heavy models that don't fly well. Except for specific applications you should use the lighter hobby shop wood for all your parts. So start by learning how to shop for the best wood. Light to medium weight and flat sheets are best.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
What Bruce said.
Take a scale with you to the shop. If the owner doesn't like it, too bad. All the 1/16" x 3" x 36" wood costs the same, so take the best pieces.
Take a scale with you to the shop. If the owner doesn't like it, too bad. All the 1/16" x 3" x 36" wood costs the same, so take the best pieces.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Loads of help, many thanks all!
After reading all this I've decided to start by building from a plan and see where that takes me, now the question is just which plane to build?
Thanks All
Twopper
After reading all this I've decided to start by building from a plan and see where that takes me, now the question is just which plane to build?
Thanks All
Twopper
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Fer heaven's sake, don't buy your balsa at the LHS! It is really rare to get wood that is lighter than 10lb/cubic foot and that's too heavy. And too expensive. Mail or phone or internet order from Superior Balsa, Lone Star, National Balsa, or Balsa USA. You'll save a fortune and build better stuff. The best contest balsa weighs 4-5lbs/cubic foot.
Just a minute, I'll look up an article on balsa. It's really interesting stuff. Here it is:
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/ncientif...s/techbal.html
I don't mean to go too far off on a tangent, but selecting the right wood is key to good building, and it's actually a lot of fun!
Just a minute, I'll look up an article on balsa. It's really interesting stuff. Here it is:
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/ncientif...s/techbal.html
I don't mean to go too far off on a tangent, but selecting the right wood is key to good building, and it's actually a lot of fun!
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Here's an interesting site for you, too. It's full of neat hints and kinks, scratch, plans, or kit:
http://www.classicaircraftmodels.com/
http://www.classicaircraftmodels.com/
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
kdheath - that site puts a tracking cookie on your computer. I have my browser set so I get prompted before accepting cookies. It's call tracker4u or something like that. I'm not for sure it's a tracking cookie, but that's what the name implies. I hate those things.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
I wouldn't have expected that from Bill Groman. But if he's using a freebie Web server as it appears, then that would explain it. I'm probably being dumb, but I don't use the cookie catcher anymore. I do clear the cookie file regularly, though.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
That's why I bought real hosting. I didn't want banners and crap on my site. The problem with free hosts is that they can do whatever they want and as the "webmaster" you might not even know what kind of crap they're putting on your visitor's computers. Hosting is so cheap nowadays it just doesn't make sense to have a free host unless you're a kid. Seriously, you can get hosting with a lot of space and bandwidth for under $10/month.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
One guy I like to buy from is on Tripod, and whoever is responsible for all the pop-ups on that site ought to be keelhauled, for sure. I guess it's like spam, you don't have to get many hits to make money. Phoooey!
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Well, I don't buy anything from someone using free hosting. I figure a legit company will buy webhosting. Again, it is so cheap it shouldn't even be an issue. I'm getting 750 Mb of space and over 10GB of bandwidth for $8/month. And I'm not making a dime off my site.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Kdheath, the LHS wood isn't bad as long as you're fussy about what you pick and have the good fortune to show up when the shipment is quite fresh. But I have to agree that there's something to be said for the prices of the bulk mail order places.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Bruce, absolutely, I can once in a while find a good sheet at the LHS. But 99 out of 100 piices are at least 8# wood, and most is 10+. In 25 sheets of Riley's 4-6# wood, all but one or two will be less than 7#. Not perfect, but there is hardly any real 4# wood out there to be had, certainly not at something like an affordable price. Gotta remember we fly FF and Cl stunt, too, so wood density is important.
Kelvin
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
suggest you add one more catagory to your list. true scratch buiding is starting with a small 3 vu and blowing it up to your size and then designing the construction detail. then you become your own engineer,draftman, carpender, experimentor, flyer. be proud of it and don't be afraid to tell everyone--I DID IT ALL !!!
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
might as well toot my horn a little-- been building model airplanes since 1937/38 and still at Scratch building. last project was my 14 foot Flying Quaker.version of my 1st 1937/8 gas powered Quaker. still have my oringinal Brown JR engine.(frooze up from being under 6' of salt water in Hurricain Camile (1969).
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
As for a suggestion on what plan to try, here's 2. I have them both and will do them. The RCM Advanced Trainer MKII, I am partway through and it is an easy plan to work from. And a neat plane you don't see. How about one of Fred Reese's Cloud Dancers? I have the medium sized one to build. Beutiful plan that should be fairly easy to build. Both available from RCM and inexpensive. And both come with very good building instructions included with the plans.
Mark Shuman
Mark Shuman
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
I hate to ask this for fear of sounding less than intelligent but is wood selection THAT important for a first scratch build.
Or maybe I should put it this way.
Has anyone ever built 2 identical planes with 1 light wood 1 heavy wood and compared the difference?
This is something I'm just wondering.
Or maybe I should put it this way.
Has anyone ever built 2 identical planes with 1 light wood 1 heavy wood and compared the difference?
This is something I'm just wondering.
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
Aim - I can't say that I've built 2 identical planes with heavy or light wood, but yes, there is a big difference. For example, the plane I'm currently drawing plans for would probably be the difference between 30 ounces with light wood and 45 or more ounces with heavy wood.
- Paul
- Paul
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RE: Starting Scratch Building
I wish I had 2 piles of balsa that was the approximate quantity for a plane that I could weigh.
Of course I wish I had a scale too.
(this is gonna bug me now.)
I know a guy that has a pile of balsa that's about 3' wide X 2' tall with 36" and 48" lengths that I'm thinkin about buyin. (he wants $100 bucks for the pile)
I might just call him today.
Now where to get a scale? hmmm
Of course I wish I had a scale too.
(this is gonna bug me now.)
I know a guy that has a pile of balsa that's about 3' wide X 2' tall with 36" and 48" lengths that I'm thinkin about buyin. (he wants $100 bucks for the pile)
I might just call him today.
Now where to get a scale? hmmm