Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

My dad is 79 yrs old and I know he has always wanted to design a plane, create the plans and make a kit. Not for production or anything but just to accomplish it- he has been building for many years, mostly scratch built electric stuff these days but we have everything including helis and a turbine in the family.

Because he is older (he does not drive, have cable,computer etc.) I thought we could do it together as a father son kind of thing- now here is the challenge:

Where do I start? I do not have or know how to use CAD, I am not a draftsman or architect either... Is there recommended software for a novice like me? This would probably be either a small 400 sized electric, or a glow 40 sized airplane-

Thanks for any and all info.

james

Dago Red

My Feedback: (11)

I started a thread in the CAD, scratch building forum about designing and scratch building your own thread, ya might want to take a look in there, maybe even repost this question in there for more help. Ya got nothin to lose.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Try this software [link=http://www.rccad.com/]RC CAD[/link] there is a free trial download.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

It could very well take you more time than you're willing to spend right now trying to learn any CAD program, and I'm guessing your father wouldn't want to sit behind you at the PC while you're "designing". With out his input, the "father and son" aspect of the design phase isn't really there either.

I'd suggest that the two of you sit down at a large table and sketch out some small side views, or top views (or both). Once you've come up with the design you like, get a few large sheets of paper (big enough for a full scale drawing) and scale the sketch up. Velum in large sheets should be available at most good art supply stores, or maybe Kinkos would have large sheets.

It will be a bit more difficult to keep your lines parrallel (have to meake measurements at both ends), and to keep things accurate enough, but it can be done.

At least this way you'll be working on it together and your Dad can feel involved. (Maybe he'll turn out to be better at the "drafting" end of it. )
Dennis-

KenLitko

CAD is where you can end up.... CAD is not a starting point for a design. Start with pencil and paper and figure out what you want to make first.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Have yop guys looked at the program I referanced? It seems like a good starting point to me. It's not really CAD like you are used to, very user friendly.

CoosBayLumber

My Feedback: (1)

I kind of agree with Ken on this.

You are going to spend more time learning software than getting the job done. Face it, at an advanced age, it is more difficult to learn things than to do using what you know already. Likewise, you have to learn basic board drafting, on how to connect lines, some Trig. and a few other points. Try going to some North San Diego Co. adult school to learn this, then go forward.

It took me twenty years to learn what I use, and I still don't know enough.


Wm.

narpets

Yea, CAD is great, BUT without exposure to the software, it would be tough at best.

Why not take an existing design and modify?

The old Sig Kadet comes to mind as probably one of the most bashed planes around. I've seen them as mid wing, low wing, biplane, twin, 3-engine, 4-engine, Sorta Cessna, C-130, Skyamaster, etc....

Check out my buddies gallery. Quite a few Kadet bashes on the first page. Almost all were built this (2003-2004) winter
http://gallery.gparcs.net/view_album...JDorsey&page=1

By sticking with the basic proportions you will almost be guaranteed a great flying plane, but will still be very unique . IMO bashing is a great place to start when wanting to make something your own.

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

I downloaded RCCAD and it is pretty interesting...

I don't care as much about the plane as much as spending time with my dad-

It will fly well though I am sure-

CrazyHerb

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,
I think it's awesome what your doing...wish I had an old grampa I could sit down with and talk about airplanes. Draw up something new.

First, I think we need to take a step back....most of these post talk about CAD this, Software that...
What you really should be thinking about...and like KenLitko mentioned, with paper and pencil in hand...think about what KIND OF PLANE do you want to design.

Sport, Speed, Fun-Fly, Trainer, Pattern, Scale......Pick one and go from there...
Then, pick your size....I usually design my planes around the MOTOR.

Do you want Stability vs Manuverability...
Wing design - flat bottom wing (high lift/trainer), semi-symetrical (sport/semi aerobatic), fully symetrical (full aerobatic)...
Wing Planform - constant chord (Trainer/Sport/Fun-fly), Tapered (aerobatic/speed), Tapered and Swept (hold on to your shorts speed).

Cost, time, and materials available are also factors.... it's a matter of picking a type of plane, brainstorming (gather info), then elminate and apply your ideas to your design as you see fit.

There's an awesome intro to design web page here:
http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/

Click on "Help and Tips" and check out the "Practical RC Model Design"
Great info there....
I also have a "getting started" link on my page www.crazyherb.com might help a bit.

I've found you can push many of the "lines" in model design....but just don't push too many at once...you'll have drastic results...
Go with what's proven for your first design....then start changing to your liking or flying style...
Design just doesn't stop with ONE design....it's a progression....continuious....like versions of Software.....
Refine...refine....refine.....and you'll eventually get to a point where you've got an awesome flying personal creation....

Oh ya...another thing....don't get hung up too long in the "Planning stage"....you can talk/plan and speculate...and never make it to the construction phase...
Focus on making it to that point...and the momentum will take you the rest of the way when you start to see your creation "come to life".

Good Luck!
CrazyHerb

BMatthews

I totally agree with Herb. For a bonding/sharing thing like what you want the computer should be pushed far, far away. Other than for coming back here to share how it's going

Get out a pad of paper and play with some sketches. Then use a big piece of vellum, newsprint or even a length of butcher's paper to lay out some plans and start building. It's a LOT easier to talk over a table with a chunk of paper between your two faces than it is to try to put two chairs in front of a 'puter screen.

And given his age, and presumably his reaction times, may I suggest a large gentle flying old timey type model? Rudder, elevator and throttle only? Use a mix of sheet and built up to balance the work time to weight issues to a degree of common sense in both directions.

Best of luck and be sure to let us know how it goes.

A. J. Clark

Here's a couple of books I have that will help you get started quickly.
The first is Model Aircraft Aerodynamics by Martin Sims ISBN 0 85343 441 8.
Very informative about model aerodynamics (lift, drag, induced drag, parasite drag, aspect ratio) all devoted to the model airplane.

The second one is Design & Build your own R/C Aircraft by Kenneth L. Smith.
This has practical starting points for (wing, vertical stab., & horz. stab.) areas and dimensions.

A. J. Clark

BMatthews

Or can cheat and pre pick a couple of layouts of existing designs for areas, moment arms and stuff like that and then draw in your own lines around the proven layout. After all the whole point is to have a nice bonding time, not to get hung up in a bunch of design math. Also I would imagine that he would get a chuckle out of actually flying the model as well as yourself. That's why I suggested the Old Timer layout. Big, light and slow flying.

To make the concept your own just alter the size, looks and perhaps add some features like flaps, cargo/bomb dropping or perhaps make it a camera plane and capture images of you and your pop on the ground flying the model.

dicknadine

James. I suggest you find one of the local flyers for help. they should know of someone who is a draftsman- scratch builder-. he shud be glad to get you both started. his plan shud be find a simple design / 3 vu's and go thru the basic drawing methods. they are very simple. Proportion multiplication is the CLUE. x times whats in front of you. give a shout if I can help. DO NOT TRY to CREATE a NEW DESIGN. dick

no1speshal

My Feedback: (1)

Hello All,
I had a go at designing my own plane and I do not know where the actual theory lies, other that, you can make a barn door fly, if you power it right! That is why the military FA-18 flies! I have pictures, but I do not want to post them, if there is no interest, so I thought I would just post a starter message.
The one I designed is a square. It has the motor on one of the corners and everything just fell into place. It flies like it is on a wire, up there in the sky, pulling it around at unmeasurable speeds! I had so much fun designing and building this plane, I will be starting on my next one soon!
All I can say to helping out your grandfather, is just sit down with him and start brainstorming. Funny things can happen with a piece of paper and a pencil.
Talk to you all soon.


Red

dicknadine

Morning James. how about a status report? did you locate any flyer's at the local field to help you?? I know what your going thru!! I have tried to learn how to do the Electric power thing-- so far 2 motors, 4 battary packs later and still screwing up-- even with good help. time and $$$ may help. keep trying-- it works. dick ask some of the Old timers if they have a set of PLAY BOY plans laying around, its an easy build model and flys super. if not let me know and can send a copy out to you. have 3 versions flying regularly. dick the yellow wing is a Spratt Control Wing Version.

AceMcCool

I know this is a old thread but I like to post stuff.
I just finished my second scratch buildt plane, my first, didnt work to well
this one I just made works great.
I coppied the length and width of a lt-40, and wing span. Then the rest was scratch buildt.
Flys good. I never used any complicated math, just measuring tape and a pencil.
The only problem I have with the plane is that it wont fly level, always wants to dive, unless i hold elevator. I think it might be down prop thrust, or the horizontal stab is not long enough. It is balanced properly and flys great. Its kind of a mix of lt-40 and telemaster. I put flaps on it, but it lands better with out them.

Basicly the point of it all is to copy a plan that works that is ruffly the same size of what your making so you know it has a chance of working.

bhole74

Last summer I designed a 3D airplane which is easy and quick to build. It was a project I had been trying to talk myself into doing but just could get going on it until I cut the tail off a buddys stinger with my Kaos and sent it into the trees. He wasn't real impressed with the stinger so there were no hard feelings. He just didn't know what to replace it with so I volunteered to build him a plane that would fly pattern and 3D and perform with the engines he had on hand. The final result is an airplane we named the "Ultimate Obsession", because he says that is what flying is for me. I started by drawing the plane on 3'x4' sheets of grid paper which I picked up at a local blueprinting shop. I combined different building techniques from previous kits and also got some good "basic" guidelines from the Feb 2003 issue of MAN magazine. The end result is a great flying aircraft, with very few changes made after the first prototype. Good Luck to you James, and anyone else looking to give it a try. It is almost impossible to describe the feeling of that first successful flight of something you have created.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Razor,
How's the project coming along?
I found a compilation of simple design tools that might help with the success of your project. [link=http://www.coloradogliders.com/tools.htm]Colorado Gliders[/link]
Some tools were even designed by our very own Giestware, who new?