Gray Beard

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I'm just making up my list of materiales for A Krier Kraft from plans by Gordon Whitehead. I see some room for some changes but was wondering if anyone else has built this plane and have any input on it. I plan on using the YS 110 FZ for power, I'm A little bored with my other bipes so I need something with stunt power to keep me awake.

Danh4

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Glad to hear someone else is building one of these, I am building one from Mr. Whitehead's RCM plans too. This is my first bipe and my first attempt at building from plans so I have been following the plans pretty closely. Mine is pretty much all built and up on its gear, I just need to align the upper wing and build the N struts, then cover it. What sort of changes/improvements are you planning to make? I'll be powering mine with an O.S. .61 FX. I'm still a beginner so I'm not looking for top performance, just something to get into bipe flying with.

Dan

Gray Beard

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You picked A good plane but not the best drawn plans for your first project. It seems the American language is lost on the English. It seems Gordon spent more time marking the colors then the type of wood he used. I have built some nice planes from plans and this one looks like it will be A great flyer. I plan on only minor changes to the controls and maybe servo mounting. I don't like the hinges he is using so that will change. I may have to change the servo mounting in the wings, it looks like A standard size servo will not fit in the wing the way he shows it?? Because of how I want to fly this plane I will stiffen up the control rods and make them adjustable on the ailerons, just use A 4-40 rod, one clevis soldered and on the other end threaded. As the plane starts to come alive I tend to do little things just because. I can't tell at this point but it looks like the cowl could use some more open in the back for air release to force out the hot air. I have been flying my plans built Fokker D-VII, Tiger Moth and Boeing F4B-2 and they don't lend themself to heavy stunt flying so this is going to be my stunt bipe. I just have A thing for two wings, they just look cooler then my single wing planes. JMO I have been following your posts on this plane too, have you gotten any photos of it yet??

Danh4

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I really didn't have any experience with other plans before starting this one so I guess I didn't realize I was missing any information. I started out by going over them and making a list of all the dimensions of balsa, basswood and ply I would need and then ordered it from Lone Star. I ended up with enough of everything so at least the plans were good enough for that. There were some aspects of the plans I had to really study hard to figure out, but I think that was due more to my inexperience than anything else. Mr. Whitehead himself was nice enough to answer a few questions I had when I e-mailed him. I'm hooked on building from plans now, it's a lot of fun if you enjoy the whole building process.

I changed the hingeing method of the ailerons too, went with CA hinges in mine. You're right about standard aileron servos not fitting in the wing, I went with a couple of Hobbico micro servos- they have as much torque as standard Airtronics servos so I think they'll be OK. Time will tell about that cowl opening, it does look small with the skirting on. With the huge opening in front, maybe some baffling will be needed to direct air over the head.

I'll go shoot a couple photos and see if I can post them here.

Dan

Danh4

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Not sure of the quality of these, but hopefully you'll get a general idea of where I'm at with mine.

Dan

Gray Beard

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I tend never to give advice to anyone but in this case I have to do it, rethink the aileron servos you plan to use. Those are micro servos that are made for light duty like gliders and 1/2A type of planes. The motors in them are very small and won't put up with the stress of A 60 size stunt plane. The Kraft also has four ailerons and each servo has to push/pull two per servo. I plan on mounting my servos sticking out the bottom of the wing and I will have at the very least two Hitec 5475s, my choice, there are better and worse choices out there but that is my plan at this time. I have them in A 15 lb. Bipe at the moment and they are working out just fine so far. Keep in mind the Kraft is A high performance plane and the stresses on the control serfaces is quite high.
That said, I want to tell you that your plane is looking like you have never built anything but scratch all your life, very clean job and very good workmanship. I was looking at your tail feathers and it didn't help me with one of the things on my mind. I am still considering weather or not to put ribs on them or not, yours looks very clean without doing it.
I use pinned type hinges on everything I build, I also drill them on each mounting surface and glue A tooth pick through them for added strength, I have had hinges come loose at the wrong time before.
Just for grins I started the landing gear today, I won't have any time for A while to really get started on the Kraft, flying season is just starting to get going in full gear this week. My first IMAA event is this Sat. and in two weeks my club hosts the West Coast Festival for four days, it was the Rally of Giants last year. I have to work the show but I hope to sneak in A few flights too. Gene
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Gray Beard

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This was my last project, A Boeing P-12 from John Tanzer plans, 68 in wing span. It came in at 12 lbs but I found Mr. Tanzers CG way to tail heavy and added weight, it's now 15 lbs by the bathroom scale. A 120 OS four stroke for power, it fly's scale but has no OS factor if I run into problems.
Gene

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Danh4

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Gene,

Thanks! And feel free to give advice anytime, I still consider myself a beginner and sometimes its not easy to make the right decisions without all the necessary experience. I always appreciate hearing from someone who knows better. I will definitely rethink the aileron servos. I compared torque output ratings and when I saw that the Hobbico CS-35s had as much or more than the standard Airtronics servos, I figured they would be up to the task. You are probably right though, and I should shoehorn something larger into the wings.

Your P-12 is beautiful! I was going to ask you about your Boeing F4B- how was it to build and what kind of a flyer is it? Did you use the RCM plans? I was considering it for a possible future project depending on how this Krier Kraft turns out.

What do you plan to cover yours with? I'm trying to decide between Solartex and Coverite fabric. I was leaning toward Solartex but I read that its seams can come apart in the sun so now I'm thinking Coverite is the way to go.

Gray Beard

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The F4B-2 and the P-12 are one and the same plane, the P-12 is the Army version with A few changes from the Navy version is all. I'm color blind and the Navy F4b is mostly silver and I tend to loose it in the sky. The Army version is Green and Yellow and I see yellow very well???
So far the Boeing is the easyest plane I have built either from kit or scratch, Mr Tanzer drew up A great set of plans. His CG was way off though, I CGed the plane when it was still in the bones and went just A mite nose heavy, almost lost it on it's first flight. He showed it at 5 1/2 and it should have been at 4 1/4.[JMO by the 25% rule] I had to make my own cowl ring, it was fun and easy. It's covered with Solartex, love the stuff, less wrinkles in the hot Ca Sun never seen the stuff rip? I have A Cub with C21 fabric, nice stuff but I liked the Solartex better.
The Boeing flys great but could use more power, the old 120 is OK but A 150 or gas would be better. If I did it again I would go with A G-26 or 38 and there were A few other things I would do different. Last week I started to see what it would do, it rolls as well as any plane I have flown, loops great and will do all the old Bipe stunts, it just feels heavy doing them. Haven't tried A snap roll yet and may never do it, I like the wings right where they are. I don't know where the plans came from, they were given to me but I can find out for you.
For the Krier I was thinking of using Ultra Coat or Mono in floressent yellow and red, just A thought at this time??It's going to be my new stunt plane and sort of replace my tired old Kaos, maybe replace is too harsh, nothing will replace A Kaos. I just like planes with two wings and looks like A real plane.
Gene

Danh4

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Gene,

I played around with the lower wings last night and it looks like it might be possible to squeeze a standard servo in there for the ailerons. I think all I'll have to do is rethink the hatches slightly and put the 1/16" ply on the bottom with the servo sitting right on it and then some balsa around the perimeter to drop it down flush with the bottom of the wing and stiffen the ply. I'll let you know if it works!

Dan

Danh4

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Well over a year later, I've finally finished my Krier Kraft. Built from RCM plans, it is covered in white Solartex and painted with Perfect paints. It will be a long time before I take on another project like this but it was fun and I can't wait to fly it this spring!

Dan

susquach

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Don't know if the Krier retains all the characteristics of the smaller .25 size Bucker that Whithead designed, but the little .25 bipe flew GREAT! Besides all the stunt stuff, it tracked like an arrow.

Curious about the span of the Krier. Any hint about the weight?

Danh, super job!

Danh4

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Thanks ddubya, I'm curious about how it will fly too, after all the time I spent on it, that first flight is going to be a nail-biter.

The span is 55" or so and it came in around 8 lbs. although I haven't balanced it yet so I might have to add weight somewhere, seems pretty close now so I hope I don't have to.

Thinking of building one?

Dan

susquach

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Yea, that white knuckle first flight time. At 8lbs. it ought to do great. Like I said, the little .25 Bucker flew great. Not quirky are the least bit wierd.

Gray Beard

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Dan has been very kind to me and not said anythig about what I did to mine. I was showing off and lost it in A water filled ditch behind the runway, the plane was A total loss due to pilot error.
That being said, mine had A YS 110 FZ installed and what A plane. Tracked like an arrow and would do all the IMAC moves that this flying fool could do.
To date it was the best Bipe I have ever had in the air and A great build. Easy to get to trim out with no bad habits at all.
I put it into A stalled snap and lost it, it had nothing to do with the plane and I may build another one when I get the time. Just too many planes and so little time.
Dans is A Master Piece and he did an outstanding job. It was his first Bipe and his first scratch/plans build.
I hope his plane will get more people into building there own. ARFs are nice but you won't see A plane like his come out of A box, A true work of art.
Gene

Gordon W

Hi all

I hope you don't mind me joining in, but I'm the guy who designed this model, and Dan has very kindly kept me up to date with his progress, and also pointed me towards this thread.

I really must echo Gene's comments on the beautiful job that Dan has made of his model, and I certainly wish him all the best when he comes to test-fly it.

Many thanks also for the very encouraging comments regarding the flying properties of the planes built by Gene and Ddubya. I'm so pleased that you guys got 'em flying just like my originals.

Sorry to hear about the demise of your K-K Gene. I lost mine through pilot error and didn't feel too good about that, as it was my best ever bipe. I always intended to build another, but being in the Royal Air Force kept me on the move and I never did get around to doing that .... until now as I'm retired I'm going to definitely build another, but having gone electric over this past 7 years, will be using batteries for power. Actually, battery weight was one reason for the recent delay in getting going on another K-K, but now that Lipos have come along with their low weight for vast capacity, electrics has become a whole new, if expensive, ball game and I feel much more confident of building a properly aerobatic electric-powered bipe now.

In fact Chris McHugh from Toronto has beaten me to it with a couple of my plans, electrifying both the Jungmeister, still at 40" span, and the Great Lakes, which he scaled up from 47" to 55" at Kinkos.

I attach pics below. The motors are Plettenberg Orbit "outrunners" on direct drive, and just look at the size of the prop on the little Jungmeister.

Stats are:

Jungmeister, Orbit 20/16, 14x7prop, 3s 5amp-hour lipos, auw 60oz. It almost hovers.

Great Lakes, Orbit 25-18, 14x10 prop, 6s 5Ah lipos, auw 7lb.

So I'd better get a move on if I'm to be the first with an electric Kreir Kraft! Also attached is a pic of mine in jubilant mood.

best regards

Gordon.

Gordon W

Sorry - posted the wrong Krier pic. The 4th one shows my original Krier duo. Let's see if I get it right this time.

Danh4

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Hello Gordon,

Good to see you here! Thanks to both you and Gene for all the nice comments about my plane, I'm only glad both of you live so far away- you'll never see all the little flaws in it! Really though, if anyone is considering building from plans but think you can't, give it a try anyway. If you start with good plans like these and think things through you will eventually end up with something to be proud of. I'm hooked now and I'm sure it won't be long before I'm building something else, I have to fill all the empty hours that used to be filled with the Krier-Kraft!

When you build that electric version, keep us posted here, It'll be interesting to see if it flys as well as the original.

Dan

woodys3b

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Dan,

First of all, I want to say you did a beautiful job with your Krier. Awesome!

Have you got it airborne yet? I will be building one as soon as I get some other projects off my building board. I'm curious to hear what you think of your engine choice. I was thinking of using a .75 two stroke or a .91 four stroke.

Best of luck. I have my fingers crossed for you.

Andy

SilverEagleBW

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Oh man,don't you know it.I have a set of plans for a 1/4 scale Krier,been looking at this thread and now i just have to build me one of these planes! Great work!!!!!!

Danh4

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Hi Andy,

Thanks! I had a lot of fun building that plane and learned a lot along the way. Glad to hear you're going to be building one too. Are you going to do the red, white and blue scheme of the original? I haven't flown mine yet, still waiting for our New York winter to give way to spring. I still have to give it a coat of clear to seal and fuel-proof all the paintwork, but the first calm day when nobody's at the field I might just sneak up there and fly it. I'm curious to see how the .61 FX powers it too, I'm not looking for lots of power, just enough to fly it "scale." Hurry up and get yours going and keep us posted here!

Dan

Danh4

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Thought I'd post a flight report to update this thread and see if anybody else is building A Krier-Kraft bipe or thinking about it.

I finally got mine flight-ready a week or so ago and took it to the field. I was going to have someone with more experience maiden it for me but finally decided to do it myself. I'm glad I did because it turns out that this plane flies beautifully. My first attempts at taxiing ended in noseovers, but once I learned to go slower and not turn too tight, it did just fine. The takeoff roll (from grass) was very easy to control and very straight, I was in the air with no problem. I don't have the skills to horse it around like Gordon and Gene did theirs, but it is very stable, does just what I tell it to, and is an absolute joy to fly and see in the air. I came in too fast for my first landing and touched down on the mains which resulted in an immediate flipover. I've made 3 pointers on all the landings after that and haven't had a problem since, this is actually one of the easiest planes to land that I've ever flown. To be honest, I was a little apprehensive about flying it after all the work that went into it but I'm glad I finally did!

-Dan

canadagoose

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Danh4, beautiful job!! she looks really sweet ,makes me want to build one.

Danh4

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Thanks Canadagoose, build one, you'll like it!

-Dan