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This was fun to build

Old 12-06-2005, 12:37 AM
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CafeenMan
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Default This was fun to build

I don't know how well it will work, but it fits the theme of the plane and it moves the CG back because early indicators are this plane is going to be nose-heavy.

From some angles it looks too big (and that's without the elevators). I think once the other wing is finished and in place it will look a lot smaller than it does now. I didn't even attempt to calculate the area and I don't know what the wing area is any more. I haven't worked on this plane since last winter.

If you look at the picture where it's clamped down, you can see why I hate CA. It all sanded off though.

More pictures of [link=http://www.airfieldmodels.com/gallery_of_models/rc/wermachts_scorpion/gallery.htm]Wermacht's Scorpion[/link] are on my site.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:01 AM
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CafeenMan
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Default RE: This was fun to build

One more image.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:03 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

If you use your imagination, consider that to be a wing having a span of about 300 feet. The passengers are located in the CG sweet spot at the center of the wing but can also walk along the inside of the spars to about 75 feet or so from the center in each direction.

I think I'll set up a concession stand.
Old 12-06-2005, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

I think it looks cool.

Pete
Old 12-06-2005, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Thanks Pete. Now I'm working on something I promised somebody else. It's a plane that the builder used pulp wood for the lower center section of the wing. It was covered but all the sheeting collapsed. What a mess!
Old 12-06-2005, 12:31 PM
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iron eagel
 
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Default RE: This was fun to build

I like the looks of that one, I see your shop foreman is inspecting the work. Did he approve?
Old 12-06-2005, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

I'm not sure if he approves or not. Considering my shop foreman is named Wermacht, and this plane is named Wermacht's Scorpion, I think his standards are a little higher than usual for what is "acceptable." So far he just takes passing glances. He hasn't said anything so I'm not sure what his thoughts are.

Maybe we can glean something from this photo.
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Old 12-06-2005, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Paul,
I think Wermacht is not impressed with the speed of the build. I think he may be a bit miffed with all the time you spent on the Eindecker project, and did not spend enough time addressing his needs. Or is it you have just taken up space where he like to nap?
So have you made any progress with the pulp wood repair to bad people do not take time to select the wood they are using properly although if you use long lengths it is easy to not notice part may be a bit sub par.
Hope all goes well with that, hope the wing was not glassed yet, that would make it a lot less enjoyable. I saw the repair on the Thwing, so other than time, I dont think the repair will be much of an issue. Oh well back to my own project, the Millenium Cub, its been on the table over a year now got to get it out of the way. I have to build a couple of trainers for my wife and daughter they have decided they would also like to learn how to waste balsa.
Regards,
Paul
Old 12-06-2005, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Iron Eagel - The plane that I'm "fixing" was built by a first time builder. Lots of mistakes, but no show-stoppers. The reason I'm doing it is two-fold. First, the person who brought me the plane said it's the only model his dad ever built and he wants his dad to see it fly.

Second, the builder (dad) put a lot of TLC into the build. He was a novice, so he did a lot of things wrong or the hard way, but it's obvious he was trying. He even made wood wheel pants!

I tried to use the control system he built in (unsupported NyRods) which had two problems. First, they were way too spongy. Second, they were up at the top at the rear of the wing saddle. I thought it was a 3-channel airplane because I was brough a 3 channel radio (and 2 servos). So I didn't worry about the location of those pushrods. Later when I looked at the wing I realized it's a 4-channel plane. Oops.

Anyway, I made really nice wood pushrods for the plane. They have just the right amount of flex but not too much and will be positive. They wanted to be at the bottom of the fuselage so I installed the servos to make the pushrods happy.

That freed up the top for the aileron servo/linkage (strip ailerons, one servo). Unfortunately, there was nothing built in to mount the servo to, so when I started working in the area, the wood already felt like rotten fruit. Fortunately, there's a good spar joiner that I found after removing covering, so the sheeting is just to take the load of being rubber-banded to the top of the fuselage.

I used a thin coat of polyurethane glue to make a doubler for the top sheeting (drying now). The wing is upside down with the center sheeting supported by a few cotton cloths and a bag of bb's inside to apply pressure. Because of the dihedral I can only do one side at a time, so while the first side dries, I'm building elevators.

By the way, my fuel tank in his plane is a work of art. You wouldn't believe how many hours I spent tweaking the tubing inside the tank so the clunk works perfectly. It's a small slant-tank so that wasn't easy! Also, the engine is mounted upright towards the top of the fuselage, so getting the tank as high as possible wasn't fun either. On top of that the only place the fuel lines can come through are above the engine mount (hence the slant-tank). That still leaves the tank a little low, but it's only got space for a small bit of foam between it and the top of the fuselage. It won't go any higher than that unless I mount it outside the plane.
Old 12-06-2005, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

One elevator finished, sanded and hinged. I need to do more work to make the tips match (LE of elevator to TE of stabilizer). The other elevator is framed and ready to be brought to the same stage.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

More photos of Wermacht's Scorpion are here.

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/galler...on/gallery.htm
Old 12-07-2005, 12:47 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

ORIGINAL: CafeenMan

If you use your imagination, consider that to be a wing having a span of about 300 feet. The passengers are located in the CG sweet spot at the center of the wing but can also walk along the inside of the spars to about 75 feet or so from the center in each direction.

I think I'll set up a concession stand.
Re your flying wing crescent. Like many a find idea someone already beat you to it... and with a true vengeance. Check out the link to the Belgeddes wing....

http://home.att.net/~dannysoar/BelGeddes.htm

Oops- for got to add that this is one of the oddest looking and highly different designs I've seen in some time. I like it.... It reminds me of some of the great Free Flighter George Perryman's model designs.
Old 12-07-2005, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Sounds like yo have the repair well in hand, better than it was originaly. It must have been a lot of fun getting that tank in there, why are some people so afraid to mount the engine inverted. it would have given you at least 3/4 of an inch more space when it came to mounting the tank. Basicly sounds like you had to do a major rework to get it into flying shape, but like you said it is for a worthy cause. Good think they have someone with your ability to help them out , good luck with it. Looks like your new build is moving right along I like the looks of it, but the real question will it be better than gonzo? Sorry to read about its trip out over the gulf.
I wil stay tuned for the first flight, at least you have the weather year round to fly. Our field now has a couple of inches of snow on it and more predictide for Friday. Good part about that is it is now the start of building season, have a couple of months I don't have to cut the grass at home or the field.
Old 12-07-2005, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Mr. Eagel - The plane I'm repairing isn't a repair, but just finishing the job and correcting errors. I agree about the inverted engine. Now that I'm looking at the model more carefully, it was a plan build or from scratch. All the parts are hand numbered and look hand cut. Fairly ambitious for a novice! I'll put it together and post a few photos so you can see what I'm talking about. It's a little plane with some character and as you said, a worthy cause.

Wermacht decided against the swift tail. He said it looks too big and that it's a girly kind of tail. He wanted something with stronger lines, but the same basic planform. So we went to straight tapers.

The tail I posted here is completed except for covering. I brushed on one coat of nitrate dope over everything (inside and out) and then two more very thin coats on just the areas where the covering will contact. I have plans for this tail for another plane and it will be silked.

I plan to silk Scorpion as well, but it's been so long since I've done it that I'm concerned about my technique. I don't want to apply the silk wet if I can avoid it because I always had problems with blushing. People say it goes away with more coats, but that never happened for me. Once blushed, always blushed. In fact, I did a test with some silk today using full strength nitrate and it blushed due to humidity - the silk was dry!
Old 12-08-2005, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Paul,
Wow, first build from plans that is great effort. After you polish it up it will be nice to hear that he got to see it fly.
I wanted to post pictures of my "MILLENIUM CUB" but I keep getting a disk error when trying to upload. got to figure that out. Posted the picture of my gws mustang, since then have not got it to work. I am just finishing up the new wings for the cub, I did not like how the other set came out. I think the hardest thing to do is be your own quality control, but after seeing how you build I had to toss them. Way to heavy and would twist far to much out at the wingtip. It was hard to toss them in the trash but after seeing the care you take with your models it convinced me that that is where they belonged. Besides now I have a sixty four inch wing that weighs in at 6OZ that is ready for sheething and glass hope to get it finished in the next few weeks.
The cub has a new cowl for ducted cooling, a modified rudder and tail. The main landing gear have been updated and moved slightly forward to avoid the nose overs that are so easy to do with the cub. It has a 12% airfoil with carbon fiber spars to eliminated the need for struts. The airplane has a 40 size engine and it is all set up for pull pull controls for the flight surfaces. I still have to glass the fusalage and cowl but hope to have the entire airplane finish out at 17 oz a foot for wing loading. If I can ever figure out how to post a picture again I will do so.
BTW my user name is very similar on you site....
Regards
Paul
Old 12-08-2005, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

That's great. I want to be remembered for causing people to destroy their work.

Actually, I hate to do it, but I trash parts all the time. In fact, the wing that I used to demonstrate how to join wings for an article on my website developed a little twist in it and I crunched it up and threw it away. It was going to be the lower wing for Wermacht's Gonzmeister. It didn't make the cut.
Old 12-08-2005, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

This is what I was doing yesterday (besides building a new stabilizer). If you go to the page on my site you can see several photos where I was using a stick and rubber bands to figure out the shape I wanted the turtleback to be.

This model, if you haven't figured it out yet, is totally being made up as I go along. I think it's going to be cooler than I originally envisioned.
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Old 12-08-2005, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

By the way, this is a 1/5 scale model of a full-scale aircraft for really skinny pilots.

And Wermacht doesn't like "Gonzmeister." He said it's name is now Wermacht's Scorpion.
Old 12-08-2005, 08:46 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Paul,
I like that method of design myself, I like the adventure, as long I don't build myself into a dead end. I love the turtleback look can not wait to see what it grows up into. Wermacht put his foot down about the name huh, I guess he knew it was destine to be a radical new design. Wermacht's Scorpion sounds as impressive as it is starting to look.
My cat, Casper has put up with my plane being on his favorite nap spot for some time now, although he has of late taken to moving my tools out of his way if I forget to put them up. I think it is his way of telling me to finish it up, and leave me some clear space for the winter naps he plans to get in, he hates to go outside in the snow....
Keep up the post ....
Regards
Paul

BTW still working on that BWB project I told you about....
Old 12-08-2005, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Casper would be a good name for lots of planes. Particularly a stealth plane.

Please forgive me, but I don't remember the BWB project. ??

If you look in the background of one of the photos you can see the new stabilizer being built. Will decide which one to use after Wermacht sees them both in context.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:08 PM
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iron eagel
 
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Paul,
I had mentioned it when I registered on your site some time ago.
I told you that I got back into rc, because I am one of those EAA nuts that actualy get into planes we build.
I was working on a design for an ultralight/Sport aircraft, under the FAA rules for experimentals, but wanted to test a model of what I wanted to build. I got an old Piper model I still had kicking around from the sixtys back in service I wanted to get some stick time with the rc again so I would be comfortable doing it to test. Did not like it flew, I though it flew "heavy", bought an ARF after reading a magizie review of it, and found out it was a brick when I weighed it after it was put together. It has become my "windy day" plane since. I said, flying RC after not having done it in many years, the I got hooked on it again.
Anyhow, my quest is to build a Blended Wing Body aircraft, using ducted fans so I can used vectored thrust in the design. I figure if I can make a 1/5 th scale model of it and I can fly it, I will scale it up to a 50% scale, then try that. Then if I'm not to old at that point, to build it or fly it, build a full scale version.
But all that aside, I forgotten how much fun can be had with some glue, sticks, and sheets of balsa, plus a motor and radio.

I like that new stabilizer, I noticed a few ribs have appeared on the fuse. that is really starting to look sweet.
Regards,
Paul
Old 12-09-2005, 02:22 AM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

OK, I know you from my site, but I don't remember you telling me about the BWB. I'll have to look through stuff and see if I can find it. There are so many people registering and sending me e-mail now I can hardly keep up.

Anyway, the BWB sounds cool. What axis do you want controlled by vectored thrust? Are the engines along the rib centerline or above or below? Engines or motors?

How will you power the full-scale? Is this supposed to be a homebuilt or a commercial something?

Ref Scorpion. All formers are in place and I'm in the process of adding the actual stringers. Something is out of whack already so I have to figure out what and fix it. Hopefully it's minor and I can get this part finished tonight.
Old 12-09-2005, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

OK, all the stringers are in place and a few other items. There's still more to do on the fuselage but I need the tail in place before I can do anything else at the back end. The front still needs something - mostly more power. I'm using an old OS .26 FS that was given to me. I put it on my test stand and it ran reliably, but was really anemic on power.

This plane has 500 inches of wing. I'm thinking about getting a new .30 FS. I don't want the weight of a .40.

I've put a bunch more photos on my site. The ones here are just some of the highlights.
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Old 12-09-2005, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build


ORIGINAL: BMatthews

ORIGINAL: CafeenMan

If you use your imagination, consider that to be a wing having a span of about 300 feet. The passengers are located in the CG sweet spot at the center of the wing but can also walk along the inside of the spars to about 75 feet or so from the center in each direction.

I think I'll set up a concession stand.
Re your flying wing crescent. Like many a find idea someone already beat you to it... and with a true vengeance. Check out the link to the Belgeddes wing....

http://home.att.net/~dannysoar/BelGeddes.htm

Oops- for got to add that this is one of the oddest looking and highly different designs I've seen in some time. I like it.... It reminds me of some of the great Free Flighter George Perryman's model designs.
Sorry that I forgot to respond to your post.

I've seen some of those designs before and can only assume that they didn't evolve into something in production because either they were not technologically feasible, or money people got scared because they didn't look "normal." I think the second count has been hindering aviation from its inception to the present.

Anyway, I didn't mean that my idea was original, but that it could be done. Why not? In fact, I think I have a system that will work with no control surfaces - wing warping! I may just try it in a model. Two servos control pitch and roll (and maybe yaw, but probably not) uysing cables running along the front of the spar and attaching to the top and bottom of the wing at the tip. Obviously the outboard wing would have to be somewhat flexible for this to work.
Old 12-10-2005, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: This was fun to build

Paul,
I hope to control yaw and roll with vectored thrust, the engines asr oon the centerline of the fuse. Pitch will probaby be controled via a canard. This is a home built, if some one is interested in a comercial version cool. To be honest the design is still in flux at this moment. If I go with the ultralight setup the design is limited by the following, Max. empty weight 255 lbs, stall 20 knots, VNE 50 knots. No if I go with the new sport cat. max. weight 1200 lbs ( way more than I think is needed) stall of 40 knots ( not that fast but I think lower would be better) and a VNE of 100 knots. What I use for power will be detrmined by the version I shoot for, right now I am still leaning toward the ultralight design criteria. It would be cheaper to build and fast enough for a proof of concept craft. I think the basic design will be very easy to scale up or do depending on what you want for a flight envelope. I have tried some glide test with the basic shape built from balsa, tissue and some foam. Foam to a designer is like proto matter in one of the Star Trek movies, it is not kosher but allows you do do things you couldn't do otherwize. Besides if it is good enough for the F117 and Spirit, I think it is ok to use it in a glider. The glide test proved the bwb shape was stable and had a 15 to one ratio. Not to shabby for long cord design it did not exhibit roll or yaw issues at slow speed (glide) but I am concerned what I will find under power.
I have see the Scorpion on your site, looks wild. So have you desided on the .3fs for power? I of late have been toying with some of the new brushless electric stuff in small airplanes. Using li-pol batteries but man is that stuff pricey.... Glow give you a lot more bang for the buck still. Although I am going to be building a pari of 40 sise planes with electric power, I not paying for the motors setups. I can build five more planes for that money.

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