plans made simple
04-22-2006, 12:16 AM
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plans made simple
Hi to all,
I would like to find out if their is a source for plans for model airplanes that are created without using cad programs or unzip programs, that novice could understand, that maybe all that would be required is the pattern of the wing rib be full size. All the model builder have to do is draw out measurement to the wood surface chosen by the builder. That these measurement which come from the layout of the model plans of each pieces of the drawings which are given. That a plan could be copied on to just 8 X 11, or 8 X 14 paper out of any computer printer. I have a copy of a book for, High flying on a low budget by Peter Miller, which he show a model plane plan created this way; Are there any sources for this.
Dennis
I would like to find out if their is a source for plans for model airplanes that are created without using cad programs or unzip programs, that novice could understand, that maybe all that would be required is the pattern of the wing rib be full size. All the model builder have to do is draw out measurement to the wood surface chosen by the builder. That these measurement which come from the layout of the model plans of each pieces of the drawings which are given. That a plan could be copied on to just 8 X 11, or 8 X 14 paper out of any computer printer. I have a copy of a book for, High flying on a low budget by Peter Miller, which he show a model plane plan created this way; Are there any sources for this.
Dennis
04-22-2006, 12:27 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Such a plan is certainly possible but it would lead to the model being pretty much purely straight lines and of a very simple shape. I don't know of anyone that has done such a plan at this time. It would make for an interesting challenge though. What size would you be interested in? It would have to be quite small like in the 1/2A to .25 range. Any larger and you'd be looking at more complex building formats that would require full sized plans for at least part of it.
CAD may be seen by some as an advanced bit of software but the unzip facility is pretty much standard fare these days. It reduces the size of the file to speed up transfers and if you have Windows XP it'll unzip the file just fine all by itself. If not then you should still be able to download the free version of Winzip I'd imagine. Either way zipped files of all sorts are a basic these days. If you find that a mystery then it's time to at least come to grips with it and learn what is needed to deal with this format.
I should mention that there is already a plan that is popular in the 1/2A section for a little 049 to 061 shoulder winged Stik called the DNU. While it's not just a ruler and pencil deal I had a hand on modifying the CAD plan so that the entire model can be printed on 4 sheets of legal sized paper and the model built entirely from that. Do a search within the 1/2A area for "dnu" for Das Not Ugly.
For a 25 sized model some extra work would be needed. But it would be a fun challenge. It may take 3, 4 or even 5 or 6 sheets of paper to get it all on but I can see your point in that it would be easy to download and print that way.
PS: for a novice to understand such a plan would be a little more difficult. How does one explain and show the need for doublers and wing mount plates or other details without a full sized plan? And what do you mean by "beginner"? A raw novice or someone with a few kits under their belt? For someone that has never held an exacto knife it would be a difficult build for sure. A lot would need to be taken for granted unless an additional 3 to 6 pages of "Join PartA to Slot B" came with the sketch.
CAD may be seen by some as an advanced bit of software but the unzip facility is pretty much standard fare these days. It reduces the size of the file to speed up transfers and if you have Windows XP it'll unzip the file just fine all by itself. If not then you should still be able to download the free version of Winzip I'd imagine. Either way zipped files of all sorts are a basic these days. If you find that a mystery then it's time to at least come to grips with it and learn what is needed to deal with this format.
I should mention that there is already a plan that is popular in the 1/2A section for a little 049 to 061 shoulder winged Stik called the DNU. While it's not just a ruler and pencil deal I had a hand on modifying the CAD plan so that the entire model can be printed on 4 sheets of legal sized paper and the model built entirely from that. Do a search within the 1/2A area for "dnu" for Das Not Ugly.
For a 25 sized model some extra work would be needed. But it would be a fun challenge. It may take 3, 4 or even 5 or 6 sheets of paper to get it all on but I can see your point in that it would be easy to download and print that way.
PS: for a novice to understand such a plan would be a little more difficult. How does one explain and show the need for doublers and wing mount plates or other details without a full sized plan? And what do you mean by "beginner"? A raw novice or someone with a few kits under their belt? For someone that has never held an exacto knife it would be a difficult build for sure. A lot would need to be taken for granted unless an additional 3 to 6 pages of "Join PartA to Slot B" came with the sketch.
04-22-2006, 10:19 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Hi again,
To add more to my question of these plans could their be illustrations, or drawings showing layout of the model to be built, this could be done small enough on 8 X 11, or 8 X 14 paper, could also have measurement of the pieces, and if the builder wanted to could he not just redraw layout to larger paper if he or she liked. Drawings can show doublers on wing saddle, or fuselage layout of former stiffeners clearly, couldn't they; The wing layout could show placement of wing ribs, spars, TE, and also LE with just simple lines.
Hi BMathews, in your question to what I personally would like to see of a model, me being a beginner in model building 1/2 a DNU would interest me with just a .049, Bipflyers .049 trainer LST might be perfect for me, also I have .10 LA, .40 FX that I would like to find model plane plans for. Yes the models would be simple square lines creating a simple looking model plane, but do they really have to be. Ok having Windows XP I'll look in to Windows open zip files automatically.
How is that those before computers CAD programs created model planes ?. This book, High flying on a low budget by Peter Miller; The airplane model called the Peanut was probably redrawn, to illustrate the model being built with out full scale plans.
To add more to my question of these plans could their be illustrations, or drawings showing layout of the model to be built, this could be done small enough on 8 X 11, or 8 X 14 paper, could also have measurement of the pieces, and if the builder wanted to could he not just redraw layout to larger paper if he or she liked. Drawings can show doublers on wing saddle, or fuselage layout of former stiffeners clearly, couldn't they; The wing layout could show placement of wing ribs, spars, TE, and also LE with just simple lines.
Hi BMathews, in your question to what I personally would like to see of a model, me being a beginner in model building 1/2 a DNU would interest me with just a .049, Bipflyers .049 trainer LST might be perfect for me, also I have .10 LA, .40 FX that I would like to find model plane plans for. Yes the models would be simple square lines creating a simple looking model plane, but do they really have to be. Ok having Windows XP I'll look in to Windows open zip files automatically.
How is that those before computers CAD programs created model planes ?. This book, High flying on a low budget by Peter Miller; The airplane model called the Peanut was probably redrawn, to illustrate the model being built with out full scale plans.
04-22-2006, 02:08 PM
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RE: plans made simple
When you have a complete plan on a 8X11 sheet, you can take it to any Staples store, they have a large copier which can blow it up to 3 feet by as much you reasonably need. I have enlarged plans from the Fly Rc magazine for scracth building and the result is fantastic.
Does any one here have a small plan of an AT6 a Spitfire or a Tiger Moth which I could enlarge for scratch building?
thanks
Sajjad
Does any one here have a small plan of an AT6 a Spitfire or a Tiger Moth which I could enlarge for scratch building?
thanks
Sajjad
04-22-2006, 07:41 PM
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RE: plans made simple
there are thousands of airplane 3 vu's out there, that are available. its a simple matter to upscale the outline to any size that you may desire. so now thats done-- how do you add all of the internal structure? start asking questions to fellows in your area of how to do it. how do you find them, simple --find the local field and start being friendly with the fellows and then start to ask questions of how do you do it ??? its a matter of experience and trial and error with sharp pencils and lots of erasers. the cpmputor can't do it for you !!!. dick
04-23-2006, 01:32 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Sajjad, he's looking for a format that will avoid having to go and get the large prints made up.
Dick, I gather he's not at the point that he wants to design the model. Instead he wants a new style of plan where there's a small view but with all the dimensions on the sketch such that he can loft the parts on the balsawood with nothing more than a pencil, ruler and a square and then cut them out with a straightedge and knife. Then build the model over a building board with just a couple of lines for reference on the board rather than a full wing plan. I gather he's a long way from having the data or experience to design his own from scratch.
Dennis, back before CAD we "just" (that'll get Dick going
) had pencils and paper and rulers and triangles. These tools were all used to generate hyrogliphics that looked remarkably like airplanes and their parts. CAD is just a way of replacing the drafting board, paper and pencils. Both methods are just tools. It's from the mind of the person using these tools that the designs come. Dick here is still a paper and pencil guy and makes some pretty darned interesting and fine looking models as did legions of modelers in the past.
I know the sort of plans you're looking for but not many designers do it this way. If you find any let us know. The odd thing is that it's mostly through the use of the very CAD software that you're trying to avoid that "regular" plans could relatively easily be adapted to the sort of presentation that you're hoping for. The illustrations would likely be better off being replaced by pics of the first model being constructed.
Dick, I gather he's not at the point that he wants to design the model. Instead he wants a new style of plan where there's a small view but with all the dimensions on the sketch such that he can loft the parts on the balsawood with nothing more than a pencil, ruler and a square and then cut them out with a straightedge and knife. Then build the model over a building board with just a couple of lines for reference on the board rather than a full wing plan. I gather he's a long way from having the data or experience to design his own from scratch.
Dennis, back before CAD we "just" (that'll get Dick going
) had pencils and paper and rulers and triangles. These tools were all used to generate hyrogliphics that looked remarkably like airplanes and their parts. CAD is just a way of replacing the drafting board, paper and pencils. Both methods are just tools. It's from the mind of the person using these tools that the designs come. Dick here is still a paper and pencil guy and makes some pretty darned interesting and fine looking models as did legions of modelers in the past.I know the sort of plans you're looking for but not many designers do it this way. If you find any let us know. The odd thing is that it's mostly through the use of the very CAD software that you're trying to avoid that "regular" plans could relatively easily be adapted to the sort of presentation that you're hoping for. The illustrations would likely be better off being replaced by pics of the first model being constructed.
04-23-2006, 10:51 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Hi fellow scratch builders,
Yes your right Dick I'm a beginner in model building and in have tools, knowledge and understand of scratch building it's at a start. Just wondering if their was other plans that have been illustrated like I found in Peter Miller's book.
Bruce yes I would like to just have reference line and measurements to build a model. I would be interested to learn Dick's method of pencil and paper, just to start out with simple plane design. Feel maybe that I should have searched through all the forums before asked this question may learn even more what really is required to scratch build, quess I thought if I where using just simple traditional methods and tools would be fun for me. I do want to thank everyone who has replied to this question, all have been helpful, if theirs more you could help with that is great.
Yes your right Dick I'm a beginner in model building and in have tools, knowledge and understand of scratch building it's at a start. Just wondering if their was other plans that have been illustrated like I found in Peter Miller's book.
Bruce yes I would like to just have reference line and measurements to build a model. I would be interested to learn Dick's method of pencil and paper, just to start out with simple plane design. Feel maybe that I should have searched through all the forums before asked this question may learn even more what really is required to scratch build, quess I thought if I where using just simple traditional methods and tools would be fun for me. I do want to thank everyone who has replied to this question, all have been helpful, if theirs more you could help with that is great.
04-23-2006, 11:11 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Check out the sticky threads at the tops of this forum and the Aerodynamics forum. There's links and material to help you understand how to design the planform, how to trim, and links to other plans for you to study to get a feel for the structures.
Structural design is a hard one because we, as modelers, don't normally do a lot of math to figure out just what will hold our models together. Instead we base what is needed on past failures,crashes and successes along with looking at mountains of other people's design details to develop a feel for what is needed. There's no real shortcut to this. But you can find out more about how little is needed for holding a model together by studying free flight model plans as well as the RC stuff.
It's a very steep learning curve but it's rewarding when you get to where your own design is flying successfully.
Structural design is a hard one because we, as modelers, don't normally do a lot of math to figure out just what will hold our models together. Instead we base what is needed on past failures,crashes and successes along with looking at mountains of other people's design details to develop a feel for what is needed. There's no real shortcut to this. But you can find out more about how little is needed for holding a model together by studying free flight model plans as well as the RC stuff.
It's a very steep learning curve but it's rewarding when you get to where your own design is flying successfully.
04-25-2006, 08:35 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Dennis,
Back in the "old days" many magazines published construction articles in just this way.
The plans were reduced, but showed all critical dimensions, and often there was a page or two
that showed the "curvy parts" (ribs, bulkheads, wingtips) full sized. This made it possible to build a model with just some
simple layout right on the sheetwood and perhaps a few guidelines on paper to build the wing.
Many were done in this style in that era (early 60's). A very different philosophy back then compared to many magazines
today that use construction articles (when thay have them) as a way to sell plans.
Another method had gridlines behind the curves, so they could be scaled up using a larger grid
and plotting and connecting intersecting points.
http://www.ehow.com/how_7529_enlarge...y-pattern.html
Finally, a pair of proportional dividers, if you can find some, are just the ticket for direct scaling
from reduced plans right to the sheetwood.
http://home.att.net/~ShipModelFAQ/sm...lDividers.html
Dave
Back in the "old days" many magazines published construction articles in just this way.
The plans were reduced, but showed all critical dimensions, and often there was a page or two
that showed the "curvy parts" (ribs, bulkheads, wingtips) full sized. This made it possible to build a model with just some
simple layout right on the sheetwood and perhaps a few guidelines on paper to build the wing.
Many were done in this style in that era (early 60's). A very different philosophy back then compared to many magazines
today that use construction articles (when thay have them) as a way to sell plans.
Another method had gridlines behind the curves, so they could be scaled up using a larger grid
and plotting and connecting intersecting points.
http://www.ehow.com/how_7529_enlarge...y-pattern.html
Finally, a pair of proportional dividers, if you can find some, are just the ticket for direct scaling
from reduced plans right to the sheetwood.
http://home.att.net/~ShipModelFAQ/sm...lDividers.html
Dave
04-25-2006, 10:20 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Maybe this will help, maybe not
Could also put regular blue 1/4" Graph Paper into the printer, and print the 8x11" plan on that.. would help with lining up the transfer & scale to balsa. Use TilePrint to get a full plan on 1 sheet, and make with the Ruler, Dividers, & Triangles to go balsa with it.
Could also put regular blue 1/4" Graph Paper into the printer, and print the 8x11" plan on that.. would help with lining up the transfer & scale to balsa. Use TilePrint to get a full plan on 1 sheet, and make with the Ruler, Dividers, & Triangles to go balsa with it.
04-29-2006, 07:48 PM
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RE: plans made simple
Hi to all,
Are there sources here about model plane structure design and how others layout thier models structure ?, or does any one know of sources online ?.
Are there sources here about model plane structure design and how others layout thier models structure ?, or does any one know of sources online ?.
04-30-2006, 10:15 AM
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RE: plans made simple
Hi, just to have reference lines like for building a wing, this may be line for wing spar location and where wing ribs would be in relation to spars, this sound simple enough to me.
