iron eagel

Glad to hear you got that sorted out...
This afternoon I told you about the throttle motor mix, I just stumbled across a thread about it you may want to read and bookmark for reference:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8414052/tm.htm

Props4ever

At times its good to review from the start, it helps in finding stuff that was on hand at the time but due to memory lapse seems as you don't but you do

Will be making newer tip tanks with proper diementions this time, ones i made originally were overall too big for the correct scale of this model.

Specs for newer tanks are:

Length 13"
Dia at the widest section 2.85"

Will generate true profile this time so both tanks come out perfect. I may do a mold of these tanks also.

Props4ever

Thanks Iron Eagle, it was great talking to you, i did as i mentioned how i planed to do, in the end that was the right decision.

Think about what i offered/suggested to you, we'll be talking again soon.

Props4ever

I also managed to fix the error with one of the wing mounting dowel holes that was off center 1/8", it was compressing right side more the left side when i would try to set wing on the fuse saddle.

What i did was the ole hole filling trick, added same size dowel int he wrong drilled hole, this filled the hole and then i re-measured it properly and re-drilled newer hole at the right spot.

People who think if once a hole is drilled in the wood, is drilled permanently, well "Not so much!", infect it could be fixed as i did with this hole on this model.

F-A-P

Hi Sammy,

you have sent me a pm.

Now, a lot of work last weeks, but I'm fine.

You ask for the deflections of the rudders, here what I found in the Lockheed report 7786:

Angular deflection of the fin-rudders left and right 30°.
Angular deflection of rudder tabs with rudder neutral left 27° and right 25°.

If you need more information ...

Frank

Props4ever

Thanks Frank, i was going to go with 35 degrees as my guesstimate if actual numbers were not available, so 30 degrees does makes sense due to 5 rudders!, now thats huge surface are if combined together!

Now as for tabs, i have linked them in a way, that when rudder is fully deflected to either sides, tab will turn to opposite direction and will be parallel to the fin's direction, but looks like a bit less will also do the trick.

iron eagel

They should move proportionately to the rudder movement, not just when the rudder is fully deflected...
They actually looked to be about perfect, when you had the rudder deflected.
If any thing a bit more deflection may be needed, but that no big deal just move the arm in a bit on the horn of the boost tab.

Props4ever

Yes they do move with the rudder in motion proportionately. I'm trying to upload a video here that i took with initial set up, before i did this internal pivoting modification to show you all how they move.

iron eagel

You will only know for sure after you fly it, but they looked pretty good from what I saw.
One caution even though you have five surfaces, the rudder isn't all that big for how much wing and mass it has to work against. The one good thing with going electric the chance of having to deal with an engine out is a lot slimmer. Don't get to focused on the "scale throws" because there is a good chance that with a model they won't work the same scaled down, you may have to "fine tune" after the first flight.

If it were my plane I would opt for a chance of, too much rudder, rather than not enough on the first flight... (You can always be gentle on it)

Props4ever

Well i'm going to post pics of the modification that i did yesterday in the fin's internal base structure.

What i did, i made a slot at the base of the fin's TE where i initially had linkage rod glued in.

Then i took my fiberglass sheet, cut couple 1" x 1/4" strips, glued them together and drilled a hole slightly off center of the strip.

A slit was made on both side walls, almost in the center of the slot about 1/4" deep. This FG strip was initially inserted in the slit to make sure it will go in, then after the hole was drilled, i made "Z Bend" on the other end of the linkage rod
and then passed the rod's Z end through it. Made sure hole was big enough that no binding happend, then this strip was again inserted back in the slit, this time with the rod.

Rudder was re-assembled back on the fin by passing this rod through the it's slot at the base of LE, after this, assembly was done, re-attached the boost tab on the rudder with linkage rod hooked up.

Now linkage rod pivots on both ends as rudder moves and boost tab also moves proportionality to the opposite side.

Props4ever

After the fix of the wing's skin section where screws will pass through in the fuselage for the joint, i used a trick to locate exact spot to drill the newer holes.

What i did, was used reverse trick!, i screwed in the screws from inside the fuselage out on the saddle, i brought them out just enough that when i will re attach the wing on the saddle, screws will not push against the wing's skin but will be there.

Then added couple of yellow wood glue drops on the flat surface of the screw, then i re-attached the wing on the saddle, this way the wet glue also contacted the points where holes would be drilled. Now i got the exact spots where newer holes will be needed to be drilled.

After that 2 new holes were drilled on the wing's surface where screws will pass into with fuselage.

Props4ever

Finally after a while working on the tail section, i got tired of seeing just the fuse!, so decided to assemble the model with it's wings and see how she is.

I'm also introducing my 2nd baby in works to the RCU Community here, see if anyone could guess....lol

Props4ever

We'll work on right rudder tonite and then test fit all flight controls of the tailplane, adjust everything and then i'll mark all the hinges where they have to be between the flying surfaces and fins/stabilizer.

I want to add cap strips on the openings of all hinge slots made on both elevators and rudders, stab and fins as part of scale detail, then after this is done, i will fiberglass TE of both fins and stab.

My plan is to completely finish the construction phase on the tailplane so i will not have to worry about it again, then all will be left to do is prime, paint and re-assemble the tail group again for the final time.

Props4ever

Just finished making the modification to right rudder's boost tab with newer internal pivoting set up. For some reason i like right side's modified set up better then original on the left side.

Now that boost tabs of both OB rudders are functioning, i'm thinking to making these modifications by adding functional "Trim tabs" on both elevators also. This will assist in using moderate torque servos then high torque MG types, other benefit will be lighter tail vs heavier with usage of MG servos. Plus with lighter weight servos in the tailplane they will help with CG also.

As you see how model is now assembled, i have dry installed nose gear assembly unit also, yet still it's tail heavy, mind you there are no cowls, motors, escs, lipos, any of flap mechanisms on the wing yet but still i feel tail should be lighter in weight.

This will push completion of this section few days behind as i can also do it tonite!, hmmmm

Props4ever

I went ahead and made first "Trim tab" on the right elevator. Since right elevator was constructed HD it was not a big deal to add trim tab on it but left elevator is different issue altogether, this trim tab is already hinged on the elevator. It will take more time to modify it as it's top and bottom skins, have to be replaced and ribs are needed to be added in the structure. I will incorporate trim tab as part of the re-structuring process. I'm also contemplation to make a HD torque rod with single servo arm attachment to be hooked up between both elevators, this way i will run a CF rod with metal wire end to a single servo that i'm thinking on placing in the fuselage around CG point. By incorporating these "trim tabs" on the elevators i feel that i can use a single high torque MG servo instead of 2 servos in the stabilizer!.

Slow Low

Hey Sammy, how about a link to something on that Bud Nosen you're hiding there.

Props4ever

You got a Pm James...It's in for hibernation these cold winter months...

iron eagel

Anything you can do to reduce the AUW is going to be a plus, and keeping the weight on the tail lower even more so.

Props4ever

Yeah i have been thinking on ways of reducing weight from the tailplane or from the aft fuselage by reducing amount of from inside the fuselage.
Left elevator is being modified with trim tab at this time, i totally forgot that i have already re-did skins on left elevator sometime back, so incorporating trim tab is almost same as it's done on right side. We'll try to make mechanisms for elevators tabs tonite at some point. I like doing modifications of this sort, so i'm going to add trims on both ailerons also!, why use heavy servos where some weight can be saved and it will not effect the performance....

Pictures coming soon for the left mod....

Props4ever

Here are pictures of left elevator modification, both LF an RT still needs to me made functional with similar mechanical mechanism set up as on the two OB rudders...

Props4ever

Well i have spent good 10hrs roughly on making, installing and making the similar mechanism as rudders on the trim tab of the left elevator, for some reason it's just not working the same. I have tried few different ways to make it work but it's NO GO, why i can't figure it out. Tried to re-adjust lengths of the rod 3 times, moved internal fiberglass piece at different locations internally in order to adjust the two points but in the end i gave up on this set up for elevators!. So on right elevator i made an external linkages and covered fiberglass tab and the rod with a balsa fairing that i made for this purpose. This set up just took 1.5hr from start to finish and results are excellent and i'm happy with this vs internal type for the elevators. I suppose i'll do external set up on the ailerons also. Sure it's not 100% scale but hey it's a compromise to make it functions n looks decent so i'm all up for it, plus at the end of the days it's still a model....

Pictures of left elevator..

Props4ever

Right elevator's external set up for the trim tab...

Props4ever

In this picture you can see the difference between deflation on both trim tabs. I'm going to change left side to make it same as right side tonite.

Props4ever

At about 830pm earlier tonite i had finished changing over left side from original set-up to newer one. It's was so amazing to see how this jam so cleared up almost instantly as soon as new external set up was working!

BAMMMMM!!!, there it is all working now, not sure why with internal set-up it didn't wanted to work at all, there was no binding any where at all yet, soon as i wouls hook up trim tab to the rod, it would not function right.

Anyways now if i'm going to make trim tabs on the ailerons, this is the set up i will do on them also. Yeah i won't get points when it will come to judging in the events, well least i know these will function as suppose to just the looks!....

Props4ever

Starting to make control torque rod with elevator control arm to be mounted between both elevators. With this control rod both elevators will be connected and a single hi torque servo will be used to operate them from the center of the fuselage.

I will do similar build for this control rod but will have a wheel collar with threaded rod that will go in the middle to be connected to another torque rod that will connect to servo arm. Basically how we see set up on 45sz-60sz trainer elevators but alot heavy duty by using thicker rod and brass sleeves. I will also solder the collar with torque rod and the threaded control arm.

To make this work a single slot will be made in the foam structure of the stabilizer at the hinge line of the elevators, this way when i'll install this set up, it will be easier to pick up first two holes of each elevators hinges instead of drilling newer holes.

Brass tube sitting across the elevator at the hinge lines is where slot will be made in the stabilizer for this elevator control rod set-up