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Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Old 09-13-2006, 01:49 PM
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RVM
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Default Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

I went to the Sig website to get an approximation of how much the wood for my Extra is going to cost. I think, even using contest balsa for the ribs and sheeting, that I'll be well under $150. That, versus $285 to have Laser Cut Kits do it, is inspiring me to go ahead and cut this one myself so long as I can get a hold of the tools I need rather inexpensively.

What's the best method for cutting? I can only do two ribs at once, since the wings taper, so I was going to copy the plans (still haven't found anywhere local to do that accurately), cut the parts from the plans, tack it to the wood, rough cut it with a very fine tooth scroll saw and use 400+ grit sandpaper on a disc sander to get final shape. Should I shape to the inside of the template lines or the outside? Does this seem like the best way to do it?

I need to cut some plywood strips to double some balsa parts. What is the best way to cut these long and rather thin strips?

I'm a bit apprehensive about cutting the parts. I've done some cutting by hand before but never a full kit. I am just not sure if I can cut every single part perfectly (or as perfect as is possible hehe).

Also, I like the selection of wood Sig offers. They also carry some contest, which I plan on using for parts that don't bear much of a load. Any good/bad thoughts on Sig balsa stock? Is there a better supplier?

Thanks!
Old 09-13-2006, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?


ORIGINAL: RVM

I went to the Sig website to get an approximation of how much the wood for my Extra is going to cost. I think, even using contest balsa for the ribs and sheeting, that I'll be well under $150. That, versus $285 to have Laser Cut Kits do it, is inspiring me to go ahead and cut this one myself so long as I can get a hold of the tools I need rather inexpensively.
Buying the wood isn't that expensive at all, usually. I priced out wood for a 2M pattern plane and it is only about $120-$130 for top quality contest balsa.

What's the best method for cutting? I can only do two ribs at once, since the wings taper, so I was going to copy the plans (still haven't found anywhere local to do that accurately), cut the parts from the plans, tack it to the wood, rough cut it with a very fine tooth scroll saw and use 400+ grit sandpaper on a disc sander to get final shape. Should I shape to the inside of the template lines or the outside? Does this seem like the best way to do it?
I copy the templates, glue them to the balsa, cut them out with a scroll saw or knife (depending on the wood thickness), then use a disc sander to true the edges to the templates. I usually do each one separately if the wing is tapered, since I find it's more trouble to stack the balsa and keep it tightly together than to simply do 2 of each.

I need to cut some plywood strips to double some balsa parts. What is the best way to cut these long and rather thin strips?
What thickness of ply? Aircraft ply or lite ply? If it is 1/32" or 1/64" aircraft ply scissors work pretty well. For 1/16" and up I would use a table saw. For lite ply, table saw as well.

I'm a bit apprehensive about cutting the parts. I've done some cutting by hand before but never a full kit. I am just not sure if I can cut every single part perfectly (or as perfect as is possible hehe).
It is not nearly as hard as it seems. Once you get going you will see it is pretty easy to exactly match the templates with a bit of care. The disc sander makes it simple to get true square edges and if you really muck one up, just toss it and do another. Mostly, you need to be patient, take a bit of care and just be willing to keep going until they are all done. Do not hurry, just enjoy the experience of crafting everything with your own hands.

Also, I like the selection of wood Sig offers. They also carry some contest, which I plan on using for parts that don't bear much of a load. Any good/bad thoughts on Sig balsa stock? Is there a better supplier?
Can't comment on SIG, but I have heard nothing but superlatives about Dynamic Balsa

http://www.dbalsa.com/



Mark
Old 09-13-2006, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?


ORIGINAL: mmattockx

Buying the wood isn't that expensive at all, usually. I priced out wood for a 2M pattern plane and it is only about $120-$130 for top quality contest balsa.
Do you think using contest for the whole plane would be a problem? Would it significantly reduce strength as well as weight?


I copy the templates, glue them to the balsa, cut them out with a scroll saw or knife (depending on the wood thickness), then use a disc sander to true the edges to the templates. I usually do each one separately if the wing is tapered, since I find it's more trouble to stack the balsa and keep it tightly together than to simply do 2 of each.
Hmm, yeah I guess I can see how stack just two sheets of 1/8" balsa would be kind of a pain. Still, I think I will try, just so I can make sure each part is identical to its counterpart.


What thickness of ply? Aircraft ply or lite ply? If it is 1/32" or 1/64" aircraft ply scissors work pretty well. For 1/16" and up I would use a table saw. For lite ply, table saw as well.
Various thicknesses, from I think 1/32" to 1/4". The 1/32" is used to double balsa, and the 1/4" is for the firewall. I won't be able to get a tablesaw. Mostly this is because I simply have nowhere to put it.


It is not nearly as hard as it seems. Once you get going you will see it is pretty easy to exactly match the templates with a bit of care. The disc sander makes it simple to get true square edges and if you really muck one up, just toss it and do another. Mostly, you need to be patient, take a bit of care and just be willing to keep going until they are all done. Do not hurry, just enjoy the experience of crafting everything with your own hands.
I'm in no hurry. I had intended to cut/fabricate all the parts for the plane before I started construction. That's not really a lot, since most of the building consists of cutting 1/4" sticks to various lengths and angles. A good protractor and miter saw/sander (my Fourmost products are great) will work great.


Can't comment on SIG, but I have heard nothing but superlatives about Dynamic Balsa

http://www.dbalsa.com/
Great selection. They have 5-ply, 1/32" plywood, which is better than the 3-ply 1/32" available at Sig. I suppose I would simply specify that I want contest grade when I ask them for a quote, yes?


ORIGINAL: mmattockx
Mark

Thank you for your advice!
Old 09-13-2006, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

couple of people sell micro table saws for hobby use it might fit better where you have no room to spare. one that alot use is from harbor frieght. blade is 4 inches and can easily be stored away.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46379

i saw a neat trick with the formation of ribs with a tapered or double tapered wing where they cut the template for the tip and the root and use a thin bolt to secure the balsa between the root and tip then sand away balsa at an angle to match the angle between the templates. then when you remove the templates you have some finish sanding to get the ribs to have a surface perpandicular to the side of the rib. this is one good example of how to do it;

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ribs/index.htm
Old 09-13-2006, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

RVM,

The pattern guys use contest balsa exclusively and reinforce with lite ply, carbon and/or spruce where required. Look at the Black Magic and Insight build threads in the Pattern forum to see how it's done. The prototype Black Magic V2 came in at 9.5lb with a glassed and painted fuse and piped OS140. Dick Hanson has built 80" Cap 232's at under 11lbs with a YS140 and a 40cc gas powered 2M pattern ship with 1300sqin of wing under 11lb using balsa and ply with almost no carbon at all, so it can be done. It just requires careful wood selection and sparing use of reinforcement materials.

Just specify contest balsa when you talk to Dynamic and they will adjust to suit. Explain what you are doing and they will work with you to get your order sorted in the best way possible.


Mark
Old 09-13-2006, 05:27 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Woah it's only $30! What's wrong with it and why is it so cheap?

I was thinking the one from Microlux, and it's a bit out of my pricerange if you count all the other tools and stuff I'll need to get this plane built.



I had heard of that method for cutting ribs and was hesistant to use it, though I'll check it out again. It may prove the best way to do the ribs. It'll make alignment near perfect anyway.


ORIGINAL: carlosponti

couple of people sell micro table saws for hobby use it might fit better where you have no room to spare. one that alot use is from harbor frieght. blade is 4 inches and can easily be stored away.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=46379

i saw a neat trick with the formation of ribs with a tapered or double tapered wing where they cut the template for the tip and the root and use a thin bolt to secure the balsa between the root and tip then sand away balsa at an angle to match the angle between the templates. then when you remove the templates you have some finish sanding to get the ribs to have a surface perpandicular to the side of the rib. this is one good example of how to do it;

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ribs/index.htm
Old 09-13-2006, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Awesome! I'll go check those threads out now!

I talked to Scott Anderson about it and he said to go all contest, and if necessary use carbon to reinforce. How do I know if a structure is strong enough? I guess I could stand on it like he does.

I was hoping to keep this plane around the 12lbs. mark with 1185sq.in. of wing. Lighter if possible, but I think going much lighter is going to start getting exponentially expensive (replacing fiberglass cowl, fairings etc. with carbon = $$$$$ for instance). I still haven't decided on an engine yet.

Thanks!


ORIGINAL: mmattockx

RVM,

The pattern guys use contest balsa exclusively and reinforce with lite ply, carbon and/or spruce where required. Look at the Black Magic and Insight build threads in the Pattern forum to see how it's done. The prototype Black Magic V2 came in at 9.5lb with a glassed and painted fuse and piped OS140. Dick Hanson has built 80" Cap 232's at under 11lbs with a YS140 and a 40cc gas powered 2M pattern ship with 1300sqin of wing under 11lb using balsa and ply with almost no carbon at all, so it can be done. It just requires careful wood selection and sparing use of reinforcement materials.

Just specify contest balsa when you talk to Dynamic and they will adjust to suit. Explain what you are doing and they will work with you to get your order sorted in the best way possible.


Mark
Old 09-13-2006, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?


ORIGINAL: RVM

Hmm, yeah I guess I can see how stack just two sheets of 1/8" balsa would be kind of a pain. Still, I think I will try, just so I can make sure each part is identical to its counterpart.
No pain to it. Try a little double stick scotch tape to hold the sheets together. Heck, I use it to put the traced paper templates on too. When you place the tape, make sure it'll hit each piece you cut so they'll still be stuck together when you sand them.

Dave
Old 09-13-2006, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Cool. How'd you go about cutting all the notches? Also, the ribs on this plane have a 1/8" cut out so the LE sheeting can fit flush with the edge of the ribs. How would one cut that best? Just use a disc sander I suppose.


ORIGINAL: dbacque


No pain to it. Try a little double stick scotch tape to hold the sheets together. Heck, I use it to put the traced paper templates on too. When you place the tape, make sure it'll hit each piece you cut so they'll still be stuck together when you sand them.

Dave
Old 09-13-2006, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Hi

Suggest you hop over to:
http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/Tutori...om%20Plans.htm

Or http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/default.asp
in general

Cutting the wood yourself is not that hard. Takes a fair amount of time but the nice part is that you get to select all of the wood yourself. The last plane I did, a Pepino Albatross DVA had a lot of similar wing ribs so I started with a 1/4" ply template, top and bottom, and stacked 1/8 " balsa in between. The idea of using the disc sander worked out well with stacked ribs. Also using a bandsaw or a scroll saw for the ply formers is required. If you have a Scroll saw, a bandsaw and a disc/belt sander you have all you need. Then you can build anything you can get plans for.

The most important thing is to have fun.

Ray
Old 09-14-2006, 01:14 AM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Great links! Thanks! I'm not necessarily building "scale", per se, but it is a scale aerobat.

None of the formers are plywood in my kit. I'm going to need a scroll saw eventually anyway, so I don't guess it really matters from a tools perspective.

ORIGINAL: bunsen

Hi

Suggest you hop over to:
http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/Tutori...om%20Plans.htm

Or http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/default.asp
in general

Cutting the wood yourself is not that hard. Takes a fair amount of time but the nice part is that you get to select all of the wood yourself. The last plane I did, a Pepino Albatross DVA had a lot of similar wing ribs so I started with a 1/4" ply template, top and bottom, and stacked 1/8 " balsa in between. The idea of using the disc sander worked out well with stacked ribs. Also using a bandsaw or a scroll saw for the ply formers is required. If you have a Scroll saw, a bandsaw and a disc/belt sander you have all you need. Then you can build anything you can get plans for.

The most important thing is to have fun.

Ray
Old 09-14-2006, 01:22 AM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

I talked to Brian at Dynamic Balsa and he said contest balsa is getting really hard to get. He did, however, say that he's got some available, and that he'd try to get me whatever I needed. I'll probably end up with a mix of AAA and contest, which is fine by me.
Old 09-14-2006, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

on the micro saw there is nothing wrong with it. there are alot of guys here on the forums that use those. of course there will be those that will say you get what you pay for and that its a piece of crap. those are the guys who had the money to buy the microlux. i have a full table saw because i am an amateur woodworker. i also have a scroll saw which is kinda nice to have for different stuff. my scroll saw is a craftsman. i have bought some tools from harbor frieght and do like the tools for light duty. i would splurge if you needed these tools to help you make a living. i have a finish nailer that i bought and for my own uses its a perfect tool. a jig saw may be another in expensive saw that doesnt require alot of room for cutting plywood.
Old 09-16-2006, 12:40 AM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

Hey what do you guys think of the Dremel 1800? I found one new for $189 + $35 or so shipping. It has been opened once and hooked up to make sure it works and never used again. All original packaging etc. Seller has top notch rating.

This looks like it will do the trick for 99% of my current cutting needs.
Old 09-18-2006, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: Cutting kits and balsa suppliers?

plus that sanding wheel on the side is a nice feature.

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