GuyIncognito

That's it - I've had it with all the "reviews" about ARFs. I'm tired of the long posts about all the lovely packaging and the great hardware packaged with the "kit" and the exceptional manual and the sloppy covering jobs and what an easy "build" it is and blah, blah, blah. I'm never even close to the great feeling of scratch or kit building when I get an ARF. Anyone can buy the latest ARF and take photos. Big deal. Your skill is only l;imited to the size of your wallet. Blah, blah, blah....

farr301

Where are you trying to go with this?

Farr301

GuyIncognito

No where, just thought I'd rant - I miss the good old days of trading building tips and ideas and designs and pride in what we built not bought. I belong to a great club where most of us still build. So what?

pahtreek

My Feedback: (1)

I feel the same...I am about to go to Perry tomorrow to one of the biggest swap meets in the US. I doubt I will see 10 nice, well built planes (out of about 1000 tables). It will be another day of ARF's and ARF's that have been put together badly for a REALLY fugly plane.

IL2windhawk

You can't knock ARFs that bad. I started out buying ARFs and now I'm a scratchbuilder.
I guarantee that my scratch building skills would only be half as developed if I hadn't
seen how a good ARF is put together.

Acs_guitars

My Feedback: (3)

ARF's have their place. It's an easy way to test the waters of RC flight before you dive in. The problem is that so many don't move past that into the true hobby of the builders. I agree that there are too many ARF's and not enough kits out there, IMO people are just too impatient to build these days.... That's the Microwave Society we live in; Gotta have it NOW. [&:]

CoosBayLumber

My Feedback: (1)

Isn't there a magazine near totally dedicated to ARF reviews? Big one I had heard of.

Can't remember the name now. Anyone remember the title?

Wm.

dhal22

keep building. it's that simple. there are those that will never build but they sure will take a long look at your plane before heading back to their plane that has had the landing gear reglued and reinforced numerous times. it's got to make someone try at least once to try to build. or did someone say that earlier in the thread. i, however, would love to hear about your build and everybody else's. my 4 yr old son even has a build going on (a comet kit from the 60's). building will never die out completely. sorry about the ramble here.

david

BMatthews

That's pretty much all of them these days isn't it? I've stopped buying model magazines for the past couple of years since there's so seldom anything of intrest to me any more. The odd plan or article and those are ususally the British magazines. Of the domestic stuff I just don't see anything that turns my prop.

However there is one thing we can be thankful of the ARF crowd for. The price of radios, engines, motors, batteries (for Eflight) and many other major components is dropping like the stock market during a run of rumours. Sadly the ease of buying good balsa and hardware isn't getting any better and in many cases is harder. Luckily I've got an LHS that believes in us builders and they go out of their way to stock good wood and all the bits and peices we builders still need.

I'd also like to just throw out a warning to please keep this thread civil. It's been OK so far but if it should degenerate into talking down about ARF flyers in any manner other than a good natured ribbing it'll be shut down. A couple of points have come close to the line already. We're all flyers and hold our hobby near to our hearts regardless of if we build or buy. Please remember that.

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

I won't bash arf's other than a little "kit bashing". I have built a few, and don't think I have ever built one exactly per instructions. They are more challenging to kit bash than a lower level kit. Quality can be a problem too. All those glowing reviiws in the mags are done on good examples provided by the distributors, but there are lemmons out there. ("Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one"-Mark Twain)

mmattockx

I don't know that the mags get ringers, but I think much of the comments of "high quality" ARF's come about because the people buying them don't understand what a well built model looks like. To the builders, it is a different story.

I bought my first (and probably only) ARF last fall - a Wingmaster's Midget Mustang. I have seen a number of reviews from experienced modellers who praised the quality of this model. I would give it a B- for build quality and maybe a C for covering. I know that I would never admit it if I covered a model like this one. And of course, there are the standard procedures of dripping CA everywhere in sight, reinforcing the firewall, modifying the landing gear, etc. The price was right, but that is about it in my eyes. It does look really nice from 6 ft away, though. And I guess it did save me from having to scratch build one from 3 views. But I don't see the attraction to them myself. This one experience was enough to convince me that I need to build my own every time and just live with the fact that it takes me a long time to finish a build due to time constraints.

The ARF crowd often say they don't have time to build. That is bunk, we make time for what we like. They just don't make it a priority, that's all. I like building over flying, so I make time to build and don't worry about getting out to the field much. Everyone makes their own choices on the balance they want. And I do appreciate the prices dropping on equipment and radios, just like everyone else...

Mark

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

This is someting I find rather ironic. When I build from scratch, or from a basic kit, framing up the structure to the ''arf stage'' usualy goes pretty quickly. I have spent more time installing engine and controlls and getting things lined up, than actual ''building''. Added to that I know how it is built, and I care if it comes out straight. I have done a couple of ARF's lately more because of limited space, than for limited time.

longdan

I think people are interested in RC planes for many different reasons - for some it's seeeing what they built fly, for others, it's flying a scale model of a plane that interests them, for others, flying anything for the sheer fun of flying. I know a guy who has built a heap of scratch built planes, and not flown a single one.
People should not be bagged simply because they fly ARFs. Nor should the ARFs be bagged simply because they are not built as well as many scratch built models. One of the most heard comments at my field on ARFs is "I don't know how they can sell them for so little and still make money" (or words to that effect). Remember - you get what you pay for. I fly ARFs as well as scratch built models. Usually, the ARFs fill the time while the next model is being built, then once the scratch build is ready, the ARF gets shelved.


FWIW, I've seen some pretty poor scratch builds that barely get off the ground, while the ARFs fly circles around them.

carlosponti

My Feedback: (1)

my trainer was an arf, my second plane was a kit built that i didn't build which inspired me to build which lead me to my third airplane. the third planei have is a kit build which lead me to want to scratchbuild. i have two kits in boxes two scratchbuild plans and about 3 arfs, and another plane i finished building from kit that someone else started. i see no point in complaining about what others might get out of this hobby. its what yourself is interested in. i also assemble arfs for my friend who only likes flying. I have told the same friend i would build him a kit if he were to ever show interest in a particular plane only available in kit form. i would like to try my hand at designing a plane from scratch but i am a bit over my head there right now.

WO

I have kit built planes and arf's also. I enjoy building and knowing that my plane was gluded together with the best possible glue and hand fitted by me. I also like arf's by Hanger 9 as they seem to hold up very well on hard landings and they look great. Both are good built would slant towards the kits or scratch built and forget China. Warren

magic612

I much prefer to build a plane from scratch than an ARF. Sure, some ARF's look nice (emphasis on SOME), but there's also a greater satisfaction level that comes with completing a plane you built either from plans, or your own design.

Of course, the problem with that is it makes the first few flights that much MORE nerve-wracking, due to the investment of time put into the plane! I suppose that's why I build foam versions of planes first, then if I like the plane's flight characterstics enough, I'll design a stick-built version of the same plane.

panzerd18

If they didn't make ARF's then I wouldn't be in R/C. I don't have any interest in building from a kit. Maybe one day when I get better at putting stuff together and I get more confident I might give it a try but for someone with no building experience its very daunting.

Yuu

I just read in another thread where a guy flew his Herp Extra for the first time, and it spun in on takeoff. Analysis showed a glue joint had failed... not the wood. My friend Bob rebuilds all his ARFS before flying... but his 'snap rolls' are a thing of terror!! How many others rebuilt/reglue their ARFS ?

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

This is one reason that when I do buy ARFS, I prefer to get them from the LHS, so I can open the box and examine them for warpage. Now that all componets usualy come in sealed bags, this is harder to do.

When I build from kits, I almost always do some kit bashing. I do it with ARF's too, but it can be a pain since it often requires some ''un-building''.

CrateCruncher

My Feedback: (1)

I'm "assembling" (for a friend) my first ARF after many years of kits and plans builds. What I'm finding most frustrating is the amount of time it takes to get everything straight, then peel back covering material, sand/cut wood, drill access holes to glue stuff better, then re-shrink the covering material. I guess ARC's would be better but as Dreadnaut said, the framing stage is usually fast and painless anyway. Covering and component installation is the part that takes time in my view.

Classic plans are becoming easier to acquire in the post internet/fleabay age and should get even easier as more people start selling their files electronically. The biggest bottleneck I see is quality balsa. If we could develop a cheap local substitute for THAT I'd really be a happy builder. Considering all the plastics, foams and paper products out there I'm surprised no one has come up with good substitute.

SoCalSal

My Feedback: (16)

Had to get in on this one. I'v been building kits for about 40 years. All this time I have really enjoyed doing so. I have learned so much from each build. I'm now kind of near the completion of my Balsa USA Stearman. It has been a long and slow build, or am I just getting tired of building at my age. ARF's and ARC's weren't really out back in the day. I'm one of those guys who would bash any owner of one of these planes. But the last year or so I have had a change of hart. I was just e-mailing a friend in Holland about this subject. We both discussed how tired of building we were getting of building involved kits anymore. Now my friend is a master modeler by any sense of the word. But he has very few days that he can fly due to weather and work. He now has a ARF.Pitts S_12 and seems to love it. I know he bashed it somewhat as he is just that kind of person.always sees a better way of doing things. But he likes the conveiance of just setting up and flying his Pitts when he gets a few good days to fly.
I guess I am starting to feel the same way. I picked up an ARC a few moths ago. Giant Aeromaster.really small by my standards but I'm looking forward to doing my own thing as far as paint and fabric go. I still have just a bit of a problem with ARF's as they all look alike for the most part as far as color goes. But they have a good solid place in our hobby. Don't knock the people who say they don't have the time, skill, desire to build. They are all just stating their reason's why they buy ARF's. But they are good people and just as fun to fly with I feel.

No matter how you feel on this subject there will always be those who build and those who buy. It is all good for our hobby. If you don't like ARF's then don't buy one, but please.stop knocking the people who do.

GuyIncognito

Should have chimed in a little sooner. I kinda meant I was sick of the magazine reviews, not ARFs. Almost ALL the ARFS I've had would only rate a B at best. And who really cares about how it was packaged etc. The reviews all sound exactly the same. I've started buying British mags and "Flying Models". I like to learn all the little tips and tricks of building and finishing.

All the ARFs i get I recover and reinforce. Never had a failure since doing this. Working on a Great Planes P-6E right now. Changing it to a P-1B. Will look a hundred times better than the original "kit". Have to admit though, this is the best built ARF i've seen. Amazing quality (except for the lack of glue which I make up for).

Also putting together a Goldberg Falcon 56 kit. It was the first plane I had, given to me by my late father at Christmas, and I wanted the memories. No wonder the interest in building retro kits and plans.

I find it interesting that the explosion in 3D came at the same time as the explosion in ARFs. In my book I buy ARFs because they are disposable and I don't care enough about them when they do crash. Fly, fly, fly. They are good for something.

GuyIncognito

Should have chimed in a little sooner. I kinda meant I was sick of the magazine reviews, not ARFs. Almost ALL the ARFS I've had would only rate a B at best. And who really cares about how it was packaged etc. The reviews all sound exactly the same. I've started buying British mags and "Flying Models". I like to learn all the little tips and tricks of building and finishing.

All the ARFs i get I recover and reinforce. Never had a failure since doing this. Working on a Great Planes P-6E right now. Changing it to a P-1B. Will look a hundred times better than the original "kit". Have to admit though, this is the best built ARF i've seen. Amazing quality (except for the lack of glue which I make up for).

Also putting together a Goldberg Falcon 56 kit. It was the first plane I had, given to me by my late father at Christmas 28 years ago, and I wanted the memories. No wonder the interest in building retro kits and plans.

I find it interesting that the explosion in 3D came at the same time as the explosion in ARFs. In my book I buy ARFs because they are disposable and I don't care enough about them when they do crash. Fly, fly, fly. They are good for something.

WhiteRook

My Feedback: (38)

the lite ply they use in them is junk, other than that their a good choice if you dont want to build.