Notices
Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD If you are starting/building a project from scratch or want to discuss design, CAD or even share 3D design images this is the place. Q&A's.

Foam Core to Built-up Wing

Old 10-28-2008, 11:45 AM
  #1  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Foam Core to Built-up Wing

Guys

I am thinking about scratch building a plane over the winter months. The plans call for a foam core wing and tail feathers. I have never worked with foam, so I am considering modifying the build to go with a built-up wing and tail. The tail will be easy to do; however, the wing is another story. The plane has a tapered symmetrical wing and the plan only shows the Root and Tip outlines – if I’m going to go with a built-up wing, I’m going to have to figure out the rib outlines between the Root and Tip. How do I do this? This is a printed plan (not in CAD).

For those interested, this is the IL-2 Stormovik plan published in last October’s Model Aviation.

Thanks!

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv64270.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	141.7 KB
ID:	1060654  
Old 10-28-2008, 01:28 PM
  #2  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,252
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

The AMA will cut the cores for that plane if you like. I am currently building the MIg 3 designed by Sarpolous.
Otherwise, you can make a template of the root and then the tip and stack all of your ribs sandwiched between these templates. Sanding at an angle to create the correct height.
I personally would try to find someone to cut your coeres for you though. It will be much easier.
Old 10-28-2008, 01:56 PM
  #3  
All Day Dan
My Feedback: (5)
 
All Day Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MANHATTAN BEACH, CA
Posts: 4,606
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

try www.flyingfoam.com. dan
Old 10-28-2008, 05:08 PM
  #4  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

The AMA will cut the cores for that plane if you like. I am currently building the MIg 3 designed by Sarpolous.
Otherwise, you can make a template of the root and then the tip and stack all of your ribs sandwiched between these templates. Sanding at an angle to create the correct height.
I personally would try to find someone to cut your coeres for you though. It will be much easier.
Humm ... I may have to contemplate the AMA cutting those for me. The real challenge is learning a new set of skills. Sure I can sheet the wing with no problem, but I'm thinking all the cutting of foam, routing of wires, properly mounting landing gear, etc. is going to be a pain. Maybe no more of a pain than building up the wing. I guess it's the "devil I know" though.

IF I decide to go the foam core route, what internet resources do you guys know of that can sort of "show me the ropes"? Can anyone recommend an "Airfield Models" type site for building with foam cores?

Thanks again! Oh and Dan, that flying foam site looks great should I decide to go that route.

-MA
Old 10-28-2008, 05:23 PM
  #5  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

For those keeping score at home, here' an [link=http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/construction/make_tapered_wing_ribs/index.htm]example[/link] of what Mr. Grimmace mentioned in his post.

-MA
Old 10-28-2008, 06:39 PM
  #6  
mmattockx
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: MasterAlex

IF I decide to go the foam core route, what internet resources do you guys know of that can sort of "show me the ropes"? Can anyone recommend an "Airfield Models" type site for building with foam cores?
Pretty much the foam core bible: http://www.mackrc.net/patternwings2/index.htm

Mark
Old 10-28-2008, 08:36 PM
  #7  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

Thanks Mark!! Exactly what I was after ...

This looks like a bit more work than I was expecting. I will probably go the built-up route. This tutorial, however, is awesome.

Thanks everyone.

-MA
Old 10-28-2008, 10:09 PM
  #8  
vertical grimmace
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,252
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: MasterAlex

Thanks Mark!! Exactly what I was after ...

This looks like a bit more work than I was expecting. I will probably go the built-up route. This tutorial, however, is awesome.

Thanks everyone.

-MA
I have always felt it was more work to build a built up wing.
Old 10-28-2008, 10:53 PM
  #9  
mmattockx
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

I have always felt it was more work to build a built up wing.
I concur, there is a fair amount of prep work on skins, but after that a foam wing goes easy. Built up is a lot more pieces and a lot more fiddling. I also find it easier to build a foam wing straight, but that is my issue more than any inherent problem with built up construction methods.


Mark
Old 10-29-2008, 08:03 AM
  #10  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
I have always felt it was more work to build a built up wing.
I'm sure you guys are right on this one. That's what I meant by it's the "Devil I know" - I at least know what I'm getting into with a built-up wing. All the setup/prep on a foam core will be exponentially more time consuming because I've never done it. I'm sure I'll give this a try some day, especially since you've pointed me to this awesome tutorial.

-MA
Old 10-29-2008, 12:36 PM
  #11  
FLYBABY6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: TULSA, OK
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

If you wanted to send me the drawing pics you have, I could design all the rib shapes and print it to paper for you, or email them back to you so you could print the ribs out.. This way at given points along the wing you would know what the shape was and sand the foam to match. Its just an offer. For those that havent done the ribs from crappy 3-view drawings it can be a pain. send me a PM if you are interested. Yes it would be free.
Old 10-29-2008, 04:21 PM
  #12  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: FLYBABY6

If you wanted to send me the drawing pics you have, I could design all the rib shapes and print it to paper for you, or email them back to you so you could print the ribs out.. This way at given points along the wing you would know what the shape was and sand the foam to match. Its just an offer. For those that havent done the ribs from crappy 3-view drawings it can be a pain. send me a PM if you are interested. Yes it would be free.
Thanks for the offer Flybaby6! Let me get situated on this (I still need to purchase the plan) and see where I'm at, if you know what I mean. I'll send you a PM if I need your service.

Thanks!

-MA
Old 10-29-2008, 10:58 PM
  #13  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: MasterAlex

For those keeping score at home, here' an [link=http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/construction/make_tapered_wing_ribs/index.htm]example[/link] of what Mr. Grimmace mentioned in his post.

-MA
Masteralex,

One other method is the lost foam method by Bob Hunt the old MA Editor. He has this method well documented and you could get a copy by contacting him. It's fairly simple and extremely accurate, as accurate as a well cut foam wing.

He first cuts the foam, then he cuts chordwise where the ribs would fit. The airfoil at the stations is then traced on and cut from balsa of correct thickness (3/32"). He then uses the cut foam as fill while the wing is aligned.

Once the glue has dried, he removes the foam. The technique builds extremely lightweight structures as long as you don't sheet the whole thing. Carbon veil applied with nitrate stiffens the wing greatly. Finishes in silkspan usually for Stunt flying. How's 7 ozs for 700 sq inches sound??

MattK
Old 10-30-2008, 09:59 AM
  #14  
MasterAlex
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MasterAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central, IN
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing


ORIGINAL: MTK

Masteralex,

One other method is the lost foam method by Bob Hunt the old MA Editor. He has this method well documented and you could get a copy by contacting him. It's fairly simple and extremely accurate, as accurate as a well cut foam wing.

He first cuts the foam, then he cuts chordwise where the ribs would fit. The airfoil at the stations is then traced on and cut from balsa of correct thickness (3/32"). He then uses the cut foam as fill while the wing is aligned.

Once the glue has dried, he removes the foam. The technique builds extremely lightweight structures as long as you don't sheet the whole thing. Carbon veil applied with nitrate stiffens the wing greatly. Finishes in silkspan usually for Stunt flying. How's 7 ozs for 700 sq inches sound??

MattK
Interesting ... "lost foam", eh? Sounds light/strong. The process seems to blend the foam core and built-up processes. I suppose if I needed a super light wing/strong wing, this might be worth all the effort of getting the foam cores cut, then destroying them in the build process (if I understood your description correctly). Definitely worth adding to my "building knowledgebase". I may try contacting Bob to see if he can share that technique.

Thanks!
Old 03-31-2009, 03:06 PM
  #15  
michael9054
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ST-PREX, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 53
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

Hello,

Look for the forum written by Toni Hallo in this same forum,he describes very well how to do it!

Best regards, michael9054
Old 04-03-2009, 10:03 AM
  #16  
[email protected]
My Feedback: (444)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kewanna, IN
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

I agree with you. Why learn to build a heavier weaker wing? Here's the old manual draftsman method. Draw the wing half top view on a piece of brown wrapping paper. Make sure to draw the spar and the outline of the leading and trailing edges. then divide up the length by the number of ribs you want less one rib...we just want the number of spaces between ribs. Using that spacing draw in each middle rib. Cut out the end ribs and slot them for the spar. prop them up on the plans with the bottom spar and add a spar on top.

Now, you have the rectangle measurement of all the ribs and the spare location. So make rectangles for each new rib and cut the spar slot. Use the existing ribs to draw the proper curves on the rib next to it. Start at each end and work your way to the middle.

Next use tack spray glue to make 2 layers of wood usually about 3/32 and hard. next tack the rectangles to the 2 layers and cut the ribs out on a jig saw. cut them a little big and sand to shape...now your have two of each rib and a spare template for next time.

That's the old modeler way!
Old 04-05-2009, 01:29 AM
  #17  
Bipe Flyer
 
Bipe Flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mission, BC, CANADA
Posts: 5,381
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Foam Core to Built-up Wing

I love sheeted foam core wings, so much in fact that I built a CNC foam cutter with info from http://www.8linx.com/ I still do built up wings if I want the looks, but I do mostly sheeted foam anywhere from 12 inch wingspans up to 6 feet. My personal preference is only foam and balsa for the wings, but some people do really nice jobs with glassed wings.

Foam core wings CAN be lighter and stronger than built up wings. Just like anything else, it's the building techniques that make the difference. Don't add weight with CF spars, loads of glue, heavy foam, heavy sheeting etc.

It's personal preference really. Built up is tried and true, and if you're more comfortable with it...

Here are some I've made with foam cores. The reason I'm posting so many pics is to show different sizes and how some are fully sheeted and some use LE & TE sheeting with cap strips.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fc90268.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	24.0 KB
ID:	1172936   Click image for larger version

Name:	Av69927.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	27.4 KB
ID:	1172937   Click image for larger version

Name:	Sx62263.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	1172938   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ic84129.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	119.0 KB
ID:	1172939   Click image for larger version

Name:	Yj65785.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	61.7 KB
ID:	1172940   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xn88096.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	1172941  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.