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UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

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Old 04-04-2009, 01:10 PM
  #1
SKYHI1
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Default UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I hate to sound like a commercial, but I had a really positive experience in purchasing plans from this guy. I sent a check and in 3 days I had what he promised. A CD that can be taken to a FEDX Kinkos and get your plans copied. I made a trip to Kinkos this morning and with no fuss I had my plans.

I appreciate a vendor who tries to provide quality services and I thought you guys would appreciate some feedback on an internet store when they are a good deal.

http://www.*****************.com/index.html

Take a look he has some very cool plans for all interests.

Good luck.
Frank
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:34 PM
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Chad Veich
 
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I'm glad you had a pleasant experience but, just FYI, most of these ebay plans sellers are offering bootleg copies of copyrighted material. They are nothing more than thieves IMHO. Just my .02 cents.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:59 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

[sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif] you are right CHAD
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Uncle Willy is a thief and you're nothing but an accessory to the crime.
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Old 04-04-2009, 03:52 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Thanks Skyhi1,
Wondered what happened to Willie. Weird guy, but nice plans restorations.
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Old 04-04-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS


Quote:
ORIGINAL: FlyerInOKC

Uncle Willy is a thief and you're nothing but an accessory to the crime.

Jeez guys, take it easy... He probably didn't know.


.
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Old 04-04-2009, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Flyer in okc,

I want to extend a huge thank you for your kind and well thought out compliment. Uncle Willie has been around a long time. I have seen his website referred to many times on this portal. Can you give any specifics to back up your statement. or is it just a loud statement?
If he is a crook, I was not aware. If he is a crook maybe you can provide a civic duty and warn us all about his criminal activity with specific reference material.

I bought from this guy once. I thought it was an honest store. I would like to hear more.

Frank
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Old 04-04-2009, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Well-spoken reply. Best not to let someone bring you down to his level.
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Old 04-04-2009, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

JMB,

Thank you. I appreciate it.

The really ridiculous thing is I only purchased a set of plans for a 52" Stick. These plans aren't an exact copy of the original "Das Ugly Stick". It is a variation. I know this because I have a set of plans I purchased from RCM for Das Ugly Stick. These are all over the internet. Free for taking.

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

For old kits and plans it is often difficult or next to imposable to determine the owner of the copyright. How do you all think the following situations apply?

1. The kit company went out of business and someone sells a copy of the plan
2. The kit company went out of business and someone gives you a free copy of the plan
3. The kit is no longer manufactured and someone sells a copy of the plan
4. The kit is no longer manufactured and someone gives you a free copy of the plan
5. The kit is currently manufactured and someone sells you a copy of the plan
6. The kit is currently manufactured and someone gives you a free copy of the plan
7. Someone gives you tracings of current production kit parts
8. Someone sells you tracings of current production kit parts
9. Someone draws their own set of current production kit parts and gives them to you for free
10. Someone draws their own set of current production kit parts and sells them to you
11. You sneak into someone’s shop, borrow a set of plans and copy them at Kinkos and then return them. Oh, and the owner was not at home so you don’t get shot and the door to the shop was unlocked.

In the case of the free copies you paid only the copy cost
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Uncle Willie is a good guy. He gets ripped off all the time by people buying a plan file from him and printing off multiple copies and selling them on auction sites.
As far as I am aware, he owns the copyright to the plans he sells. How do I know this? While I've never actually met him, I know him quite well. I have done a lot of drawing of plans for him. In fact I drew the 52" stick. I didn't actually draw that for him, I drew it for myself. I wanted a .40 size stick that would use 1 piece 48" long wing spars. The outline is scaled down from the .60 size stick plans that are freely available, but the structure is slightly different. I never took any payment from him for those plans - I just sent them to him to see if there would be any interest.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I had no problems with Uncle Willie, in past i have bought plans for him on CD, i was surprised with the speed CD arrived, plus i know someone who have done plans for him as well. He is in my good books....
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

To all those defenders of Willie:

I've been on his site and would agree he is a little different. Looking at the plans he sells a good portion that I viewed seem to be RCM plans. RCM plans service seems to still be in business and their website has posted a warning to consumers about counterfeit (bootleg copies) plans online. I don't believe Willie is in any way an authorized outlet for RCM plans. If I am mistaken, please let me know. I produce and sell my own plans and I know that plans sold by RCM are the sole property of RCM. This means they own all commercial rights to the plans. Here is a quote from their website:

It is legal to sell or trade any original plans that you have purchased from RCM. The original purchaser of RCM Plans may also; make copies, reduce or enlarge the plans for their own use, but not for distribution.

So, unless Willie is an authorized distributor for RCM plans (which I doubt), he is in violation of the above legal statement... And, around here those people are called theifs.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:47 AM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I purchased Plans form Uncle Willie a couple of months ago. I was not then aware of his actual status as regards his right to sell the plans.
Of the four plans I purchased, three were by other designers (one of whom is deceased), and the other is uncredited. All are branded as "An Uncle Willie Plan".
I believe that he has no rights to reproduce or sell these plans.

Cheers,

Hugh
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:39 AM
  #15
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

My purpose in a announcing Uncle Willie was to share a positive experience with my fellow members. It was not my intent to open a debate on good Vs evil, right Vs wrong. I went to a vendor on the internet and made a purchase with money that I worked for. It was not on Ebay. I really doubt that the purchase that I made will lead to the destruction of our sport.


Cratecruncher I went back an looked at some of the threads on this subjest.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_86..._1/key_/tm.htm

I happen to agree with what you are saying.
Uncle Willie provided me with a quality product delivered with quality service on an old variation of a plan from over 40 years ago. As for everyone else. I enjoyed your views some of it was entertaining.

Have a nice day.
Frank
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Sky...thanks for sharing your positive experience.

However, I feel it is important to also make people aware that Uncle Willie is a theif. He knowingly sells products that he is not authorized to sell. Also, I recently visited his website (I visited to make sure I had my facts right) and noticed he also uses his website to lash out at people he feels have stollen from him. He has acused people of buying "his" plans and selling copies online....just like he does...haha. That in itself should say he knows what he is doing is wrong. Also, he posts information (address, email and even maps of the address) about these people online. What purpose does this serve? I wont even mention the other questionable content he has on his website. This guy has no class in my opinion.

In short. You are using this to share your positive experience. Whether or not you are trying to drum up more business for the guy is not for me to judge. I just feel it is important to shed some light on a few facts.
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Old 04-05-2009, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I also appreciate your comments. When I purchased the plans I had not a clue. When I posted on this website. It was merely to share something positive, It was a small purchase and the guy took care of me. I wish every store that I make purchases at took the same care.
It has been pointed out that the plans that I purchased were in fact donated to him by Longdan. I am not here to drum up business for anyone.

If anything was accomplished here, it was to make more people aware. If you agree or not at least we are more aware.

Happy Sunday.
Frank

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Old 04-05-2009, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

If you really want to get nit picky that would mean don't buy any extra plans unless you buy from Walter Extra.

Does this mean that Great Planes, Carl Goldberg, Aeroworks and anyone else that produces model replicas are in violation?
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Sky...I believe you when you say that you werent aware of the original source. And I also understand your point. It is helpful to post feedback when you are treated well by a vendor online. It isnt your fault if the vendor, in this case Uncle Willie, isn't being honest as to the origin of the plans.

jrcaster...im not sure if I totally understand the point you are trying to express... I think the issue you are bringing up involves companies making models of real aircraft. Designing a set of model plans of a real aircraft is one issue. Taking a set of plans of a model aircraft and making copies to sell is illegal. All the companies you mentions either paid someone for the commercial rights to the plans of drew them on their own for the models they produced...The reson I keep using Uncle Willie as an example is because it is the only example that I have seen where the violation has been so clear. Im sure there are other people doing the same thing and they are also in the wrong.

I produce my own plans so I am looking at this from the side of someone who sells plans online as well. All the stuff I sell is my own stuff. I also go to the extream as to not selling something unless I have built it and flown it myself to verify Im not taking money for an unproven design...some people do that as well. Some people buy stuff and are unknowingly building prototypes...
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Maybe someone could invite Willie onto this thread to explain his arrangements? I tend to think if it were as cut and dried a copywright violation as Funkworks so strongly opines the guy would be inviting swift legal action by not removing the title block detail. Remember, these plans are electronic. He could remove that RCM logo with a simple keystroke! Why doesn't he?

On the other hand, I recall U.W. looking for a long time for a plan of Carl Goldberg's famous Valkyrie free flight model from the '30s. He found a copy in tatters and spent many hours converting it to CAD format, saving it from oblivion even though hardly anyone will probably ever build one.

I don't know any more than the rest of you but I think we need more facts on this, not just noisy accusations.
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS


Quote:
ORIGINAL: CrateCruncher

Maybe someone could invite Willie onto this thread to explain his arrangements? I tend to think if it were as cut and dried a copywright violation as Funkworks so strongly opines the guy would be inviting swift legal action by not removing the title block detail. Remember, these plans are electronic. He could remove that RCM logo with a simple keystroke! Why doesn't he?

On the other hand, I recall U.W. looking for a long time for a plan of Carl Goldberg's famous Valkyrie free flight model from the '30s. He found a copy in tatters and spent many hours converting it to CAD format, saving it from oblivion even though hardly anyone will probably ever build one.

I don't know any more than the rest of you but I think we need more facts on this, not just noisy accusations.
I invite Crate and anyone else to just see for themselves...It took me just a few seconds on Willies website to find a number of RCM plans. I dont accuse people without checking the facts for myself. These arent "noisy accusations" my friend... See for yourself. I will retract everything I've said if I'm wrong. RCM has even posted a warning about people selling copies of their plans online. It would be great if Willie could come and share his thoughts... Im man enough to take back anything Ive said if anything Ive said is wrong. However, I have seen for myself after hearing many rumors and believe that he is selling plans that are not his own.

One can come up with several arguments, but my example is clear. Willie is selling plans that are originally from RCM. RCM is still in business so this means he is selling unathorized copies of RCM plans... I believe this to be true based on information on Willies own website. Go look for yourself.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:54 AM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

That's easy, ask a copywrite Attorney they will tell you.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

I have a question regarding magazine plans: Doesn't the author retain the rights to sell the plans as well? I haven't created any plans for magazines myself, but I do work with other intellectual property. Often a contribution like that sets up two entities with rights to re-sell the property. Does anyone know what a typical deal for a magazine is?

Another question is what should happen to plans where the original seller has gone out of business and can not be contacted? Obviously, there was not enough income generated to sustain a business. At some point, the sales do not even justify the cost of hosting a website.

Also, since Uncle Willie is a fairly well established and well known seller, why doesn't RCM atttempt to stop him?

Finally, if Uncle Willie is just stealing plans from RCM, why doesn't he sell all of them?

I'm only asking these questions because I don't know. However, it occurs to me that things may not be as clear as funkworks suggests.

My guess is that the creator or author retains the copyright and the magazine gets a non-exclusive right to re-sell them. In that case, if the author elects not to maintain his copyright, then the magazine may have no legal recourse against any re-seller. An author can lose copyright's either by intentionally posting the plans into the public domain - which many lesser known plan designers do, or by simply ignoring it for long enough. I would also expect that more modern agreements include language that allows the magazine to enforce the copyright for the author. However, plans from thirty or more years ago may well have fallen into legal limbo.

You may still consider that stealing, but if Uncle Willie is adding value to the product, (which he absolutely is) then plenty may disagree.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

"I invite anyone else to just see for themselves...It took me just a few seconds on funkworks website to find a number of Lockheed/Mig/McDonald Douglas outlines. I dont accuse people without checking the facts for myself. These arent "noisy accusations" my friend... See for yourself. I will retract everything I've said if I'm wrong. Lockheed/Mig/McDonald Douglas has even posted a warning about people representing their designs online. It would be great if Rene could come and share his thoughts... I'm man enough to take back anything I've said if anything Ive said is wrong. However, I have seen for myself after hearing many rumors and believe that he is selling outlines that are not his own.

One can come up with several arguments, but my example is clear. Rene is selling plans that are intellectual property of Lockheed/Mig/McDonald Douglas. They are still in business so this means he is selling unathorized copies of these plans... I believe this to be true based on information on funkworks own website. Go look for yourself."

Sucks, doesn't it. Now obviously I'm NOT SERIOUS about this and am using it only as a humorous example but it shows that anyone can spend 5 minutes looking for evidence to support their preconceived notions about what is going on. To get to the truth one needs to be a little more dilligent. Frankly I want to know the truth.

The problem with defamation is that once the allegation is out there it's hard to un-do the damage to public opinion. In the 19th century newspapers found it lucrative to print gossip and hearsay about prominent people in their headlines only retracting it weeks later in a blurb buried in the underwear ads on page 36, and then only if proven untrue. Thats why civil suits claiming "defamation of character" arose.

Please, let's cease the accusations until we can find out more information, ok?
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: UNCLE WILLIE PLANS

Please don't take this the wrong way CrateCruncher - I know you were kidding and I agree with all your points so far!

However, if the government (i.e. the people) pays a Defense contractor to design and make a plane, it seems to me they have NO right to claim any legal ownership of the design. That particular angle on the debate has always troubled me! The citizens of that country own the design and all should be free to at least make models of it as they please.
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