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-   -   Grumman TF-1 / C1A (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/scratch-building-aircraft-design-3d-cad-174/11122299-grumman-tf-1-c1a.html)

nav-air 06-18-2012 06:53 AM

Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Grumman "Trader" TF-1/ C1A,...I am searching for plans, 3 views with formers for this aircraft.
Nav-Air

Hydro Junkie 06-18-2012 07:37 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Have you tried contacting Grumman? Since the design isn't classified like a Tomcat or Intruder, you should be able to get something from them so you can design it yourself

nav-air 06-18-2012 07:47 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Thanks for your response, yes as a matter of fact I been in contact with them however the drawings they have are S2F which the TF-1 was developed however they do not have drawings that were modified to build the TF.

Hydro Junkie 06-18-2012 11:57 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
IF I remember correctly, the only external changes from the Tracker to the COD were the removal or sealing of the torpedo bay doors and the removal of the MAD boom. I would try to get the drawings for the Tracker and adapt them as needed to make the COD

Firebar 06-18-2012 12:24 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Nav-air, What size Trader are you looking for? I have been working on drawings for the Tracker for some time. I would have started construction by now but I can't get the retracts made to finish the plans.

Charlie

nav-air 06-19-2012 06:27 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
The two a/c are similar in overall appearance except for the wing span,cargo rack storage and the fuselage on the tf-1 was deepened and this the area of the unknown.
nav-air

nav-air 06-19-2012 06:35 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
High firebar from Warrenton, I was a former resident of Hatboro in the 60's and 70's.I am thinking of something about 105 inch wing span or 1/7th, 1/8th scale, it would really depend on the engine size's.what are the particulars of your drawins and are they on CAD?
nav-air

Firebar 06-20-2012 04:13 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
nav-air, It is a small world. I lived in Hatboro until 1979.
I have drawn my plans in AutoCad and scaled them for 127" wing span. This makes the wing center section just under 48" so that it will fit into a minivan. I have plotted the airfoils from the full scale, 63A420 at the root and transitioning to 63A415 at the tip. I am hoping that the plane will work with G-38 engines but may have to go to 50cc depending on the finished weight. The wing is very narrow compared to most warbirds. The biggest concern is the roll control. The full scale used spoilers to make all large roll inputs and the very small ailerons only provided limited control authority.

Charlie

nav-air 06-21-2012 05:52 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Firebar, I lived at 12 Rorer ave. in Hatboro just off York road.In plotting the airfoils you obviously had the coordinates to do that, I flew the Tf-1 in Naples Italy as crew in mid 50's and I think the roll input occurred at 20 Degrees yoke rotation, does your drawings include the aux. rudder?
Carl Bachuber fron Wisconsin built a large S2, about 156 or 165 in.? wing span with G62's but I heard that an engine failed on take off?
In that event the aux. rudder would have helped, afterall that was the purpose of it, we always had the aux. rudder selected on takeoff especially launching from a carrier.Your model is about 1:6.6 scale, right ?so what is the projected wing area and weight?
I would love to see what you have since I too use AutoCad 2000.

Nav-Air






http://www.carlb-rcplanes.com/Trackerpage1.html

Firebar 06-21-2012 12:46 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Nav-Air, I lived on the other end of town on Lollar Rd.
The info on the roll input at 20 degrees is helpful. I have asked several pilots about the action of the spoilers with no success. I spoke to Carl about his S2 and he told me it didn't fly well. I do not know if he had the spoilers built in.
I do plan to incorporate the two stage rudder. I haven't figured out how to actuate it yet but I will during construction. It isn't as easy as it sounds and will probably require mounting a servo in the rudder mixed with a second servo mounted in the fuse. The wing area is 1377 sq. in. with a weight projected at 45# to 50#.
The plan that I have been working on is for the S2-E. It has a much larger elevator and rounded wing tips. I figure that if Grumman added the larger elevator to the later models, it must have been a good idea.
I have a drawing that compares the profile of the fuselage of the C1-A to the S2-E and the main difference is a more rounded belly and the door location. It is in the Squadron signal " S2-F Tracker In Action".
Charlie

nav-air 06-22-2012 05:25 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Firebar, at 45#'s the a/c is going to have a hefty wing loading! the fuse.of the TF-1 was deepened to accommadate seven passengers or cargo/mail and the entry door was in two sections to provide entry for special weapons or outsized cargo, the horizontal stabilizer also incorporated turbulators as well. The center floor consol had the rudder assist switch and an indicator denoting the rudder position when energized and if I recall correctly the rudder would deflect and at the end of it's travel then the aux. rudder would then deflect, imagine a cupped hand.
I also remember weighing the a/c and checking the weight and balance to ensure the correct m.a.c ay every major maintenance interval.
I don't remember the a/c having any nasty habits, not only flew to the carrier's but also from northern Germany to Suez canal, assentially all over Europe without even a close call, it did however had one big problem that popped up accasionally when aboard ship, when spreading the wings, the locks would malfunction, they were a rube goldberg affair, also it was no speed demon.
What is the Squadron signal catalog number?
nav-air

Firebar 06-22-2012 02:13 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Nav-Air
The Squadron Signal book is #100. It has been out of print for a long time. You can find copies on ebay if you want a hard copy. Send me a PM with your email address and I will see if I can help out.

I have checked the model out using several design calculators and they predict a fair to good flyer. They also predict that the G-38's will be sufficient. Now all I need to do is build it and achieve the target weight.

Charlie

maser 06-27-2012 03:50 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
Nav-Air,

I'm planning on building one of Charlie's Trackers as soon as he is able to get Sierrra to build the retracts. I called Sierra and told them I would be interested in the gear set. They told me they would need several orders to build. You might think of calling them if your interested in the same set.


Boyd.

AE2-Mark 07-11-2012 11:05 AM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
I have a set of hand drawing of the Grumman C1A Trader COD (Carrier Onboard Delivery). I did the drawing in the 1980's and started hand buildingthe plane in the 1990's and never finished the plane. I have the fusalog built & covered. The wings have ben built and half covered. I was planing on using 30-40cc engines as the power plants. I will have to break the plans out and measure the body lenght and the scale of the plane.
So send me a email and see if we can work something out.

Mark
USN-Ret

Firebar 07-17-2012 12:35 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
I scanned the C1-A fuselage side view into the computer and I am thinking of making a second version of the plans with the C1-A fuselage cross sections. As far as I can see the only differences in the plane will be the center fuselage formers will be a little deeper at the bottom. All of the rest of the ribs and formers look to be identical. Perhaps I can show an alternate cut line on the fuselage former templates to build the C1-A version of the plane.

I need to get some other projects off of the building table so I can start building up the elevators and wing sections for the Tracker.

Charlie

Firebar 02-01-2013 02:11 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
I received some great news today.
I have talked to Sierra Giant Scale several times over the last month. I made some changes to the landing gears on my Tracker drawing and sent them to Sierra. Today Darrell sent me photos of the completed landing gears and informed me that he is shipping them to me today.

Needless to say I am excited to get this project started. I am adding panel lines to my Ziroli twin Beechcraft project and I should be ready to begin construction of the Tracker / Trader in about a month. I plan to start a build thread on RCU when I get started. I am thinking of putting it in the Twin & Multi Engine forum. Any other ideas on that?

Charlie

Firebar 07-05-2013 01:13 PM

RE: Grumman TF-1 / C1A
 
I have started a Tracker / Trader build thread in the "Twins and Multi engine" section of RCU. Feel free to join in with your comments and suggestions.

Charlie


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