Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Preface:

As I sit here preparing for the start of another day, the thought occurred to me:
Why do some modelers go the next step and chose to build? “Build” in this case defined as kit building, kit bashing and ultimately building from scratch.

I have NO experience with RTF or ARF and the like airplanes. I did “inherit” a Tower Trainer 40 ARF from my Pop’s airplanes when he died, oh and an .09 Magnum powered “SchoolBoy”, also a RTF trainer. The only thing done with either of the two airplanes was to break in the .09. I am sure they both will fly. Some folks must go the ARF/RTF route because of breathing issues, as was the reason my Pop had to go the ARF/RTF path. I have a Malibu 40 kit he started and asked me to finish when he learned the epoxy, CA glue and paint was too much for him to be around. That is not the kind of modeler I am thinking about.

Suitability was never in question. I have no question they both are “airworthy” and safe within the parameters of the AMA Safety Code.

I have been a part of AMA off and on since 1984, after all the AMA has kept the US Government from declaring us all “potential terrorists” even in 2011. Joining AMA has little to do with the “liability insurance”, it is about community to me and insurance is a side benefit. I join even when I don’t belong to a club.

In 2001-02, I was not flying at all, but I was mightily offended when mixed in with the “announcements” of “terror alert code colors” and so forth, was the pronouncements that R/C hobbyists could be “terrorists”. That R/C Airplanes could be the next big asset used in further attacks. Beltway junkies dreamed that junk up. Offended when I didn’t even fly anymore? Sure.

I mean how many hours do kit builders expend making a pile of wood into a Kadet Mk 2, or a Telemaster? Hundreds. An R/C pilot is going to waste the time to seek harm inflicted on other people or property? The idea as a concept was ridiculous on its face. Logic played little role when people react instead of proactive action is taken. The herd is easy to stampede if the herd is frightened.

In the present, I recently overheard a conversation about how easy and effective it would be to use as a weapon an R/C aircraft. Directly quoting – ‘a little C4 and a camera in the nose. It is easy….’ This bullsh*t came of an RTF flier that will never join AMA and bragged about “flying out of my backyard”. This was delivered in the spirit of “We don’t need no stinkin’ badges!” The assh*le even recommended I buy from “Nitroplanes” trying to get me ripped off. LOL no luck in that endeavor little minded man-child. I don’t do ARF/RTF junk. I don’t support the Chinese if I can avoid it.

THAT IS NO MODELER, THAT IS AN IDIOT LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO CRASH HIS ARF JUNK.

Today as many are aware, the thousands of “YouTube” videos of people doing STUPID things with an R/C aircraft demonstrate that too many idiots have big enough wallets to buy something they cannot handle the RESPONSIBILITY of safely operating. The Government I fear is poised to jump on aircraft modeling when the big accident happens killing someone with an R/C Aircraft.

I have always wondered what happens when a "newbie" modeler crashes his RTF aircraft, provided nothing and one is harmed. Not having built any kits, how can the RTF/ARF modeler know how to fix the aircraft?

I once saw a wing ply center dihedral “fixed” with a “Lite-ply” reinforcing plate applied directly over the broken 1/8 aircraft plywood original dihedral brace. This was an RTF flier a so-called “newbie” and he tried to fix his ‘plane. The other club attendees (and myself) helped the fellow out and helped re-do the repairs. A service to the modeler, but also a service to things made a little better and safer. A service rendered to all of us. Just helping out each other. Simple. We all were newbies once.

Amazing how easy it can be to get help from fellow modelers if one does not decide, “they already know it all” or refuse to ask for help. That newbie fellow had the common sense to ask other fliers about his work and to apply the help and advice he sought. The idea of community is important I think.

I know there are many, MANY ARF/RTF fliers that are not “loose cannons”. This is NOT the segment of the modeling population I am concerned about above. More people go the route of the ARFs, they are faster to go fly and there are advantages to that idea. More Buyers than Builders by far.

Many more responsible ARF/RTF fliers than builders. That is OK. To each his own as long as no one is being used or harmed by that activity.

This issue is not about joining AMA, it is about personal responsibility. It is about choice and conduct.

All that being said: If you build kits or from scratch, why?

I will answer for myself.

First for personal satisfaction.

Second, variety of choice if I build. More plans than kits and or ARFs “out there”.
Perfect example being Lee Renaud’s Sagitta 900. I ain’t paying 2 bills or more for a kit that cost me 80 bucks in 1985. I can scratch build from plans for half that amount and have my own damn airplane improved beyond even that exemplary “kit”. EZ choice for me.

Third, the choice to alter the kit or plans, a skill picked up from having built aircraft before as well as only stealing the best ideas from plans in the magazines.

Fourth, the pride of not having an airplane like everyone else’s.

Fifth, knowing I am doing something few can do.

Sixth, being pleased in the knowledge that no ARF/RTF so called “kit” ever-advanced design and modeling. A scratch builder was there first.

I attended a Warplane meet in Muncie, there were no less than five Top Flite P-47 ARFs and they all looked exactly the same. They flew wonderfully.

When I build my CG Cub, I promise it will not be Yellow, nor will it be Olive Drab, every Cub I see is one of those two schemes. Cream and Maroon scheme from Paul Matt’s book?
142088

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

After reading all this, you might have issues. How about a nice game of chess? ;)

Bob

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Because I want to.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

My Dad started us kids with plastic models then he built the early guillows..we flew that control line.. I remember watching my Dad build the planes..there was only wood glue then..I never saw anyone build an airplane, I"ve been fascinated ever since.I began kit bashings as well to get the best performance..flew slope and thermal quite heavily..crashed on the slope ,and needed ultimate performance to out thermal the other guys..discovered airfoils and never went back to anything else...I use multi-purpose slope/thermal foils almost exclusively even on my electric scratch builds..For me I wanted and still want to fly every type of plane in all catagories.I play with very few arfs out of curiousity, mostly to see the engineering to make it..
I scratch build to have a certain aircraft, to challenge my brains..to use all i've learned thru the years to enhance my designs..I do lots of kits cause i'm still building it myself...I LOVEto fly scale-like cause it's harder especially in wind..I've had the privilage to fly in zero wind all the up to 55 mph plus.. sloped ,thermaled, electrics, winched,upstarted,catapulted, went fast and slow..I'm a very AVID builder and flyer, but in all honesty I enjoy telling the truth that IBuilt it to fly so that I can catch my thrills..........http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

SLOPE FAST - SOAR DEEP

guamflyer

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Here's the start of the 'cream and maroon' Cub in Paul Matt's book. It's a PA-12 and there aren't any arf kits of it that I'm aware. Here's a model of an Italian 1932 sailplane, the 'Balestruccio'. Unless you learn to build kits, modify kits or scratchbuild you will NEVER have these unless you buy them from 'the builder'. I ain't cheap! Necessity (and desire) is the Mother of Invention. I don't know what to make of the rest of your post... Good luck to you.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I build because I like to and I can have any airplane I desire and have it any color scheme I fancy. I started on a $1.00 Comet kit and was hooked from the start. It wasn't too pretty but it was mine. In many ways I enjoy the building more than flying and devote more time to building than flying. The best part is building is not affected by the weather!

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

To me it's all about the build. I honestly would rather build than fly. I am new to todays hobby but iI flew control line about 50 years ago. My favorite then was the Ringmaster by Sterling. After flying them in combat I built a few of them. As far as scratch building I would love to find plans for the F-101B VooDoo by McDonnell aircraft. That would be a challange for sure.
Bill B

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I "might" have issues?http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ngue_smile.gif

I was and am not the one that cavalierly spoke of the ease to corrupt a great hobby to do another harm by intentional actions. Intentional actions that would be detrimental to all R/C hobbyists.

And I have issues! Sure OK. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ey/msn/lol.gif

Sorry Sensei, the job of my own sensei was filled a long time ago. The job is already filled.
Life, it is only a mirror to reflect one's own "issues".

I don't wanna play a game of postal chess.

The build is central to the enjoyment of the hobby and I am not alone I see by replies. It is simply a lot more fun to fly your own ideas, built by your own hands and advancing your own ability if nothing else.

As well as because I like building. I also enjoy the community and being part of the gatherings. I enjoy helping out other people. I also listen when someone has advice or ideas for improvement.See the whole deal isn't about my ego nor pontificating. It must be something else. Oh yeah - those issues.http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gif

142088

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

You sound like a fortune cooky in your postings, all you really needed to ask was "Why do you build and or scratch build?" No need to get into all that other junk ARFs Bla, Bla, Bla, hog wash that we all have seen posted for years now trash. You tell me, what value does that crap adds to the scratch building forum; You got something to show of any value, then post some pictures of your skills, build threads videos anything helpful in inspiring someone to create something with their own two hand like you. We are waiting...:eek:

Bob

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I mostly do scratch build because I enjoy it. It gives me something to do besides just watch television. I hear RTF modelers claim that they don't have time to build. Yeah right, they sit on their fat ***** and watch TV.

I enjoy going to the field and having an airplane that no else has. I've really gotten tired of seeing nothing but Extras, Cubs, Sbacks and P-51at the flying field.

I enjoy the accomplishment of seeing something that I designed, engineered, and built fly. And flying as to my expectations. (doesn't always happen but mostly does)

Frank http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ades_smile.gif

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I enjoy designing and scratch building as well, I think most folks that spend their time in this forum do. What I don't understand is the need to bash other parts of this great hobby, I have spent years of my time posting build threads in an effort to motivate others to build, however I never needed to bash another part of this hobby to get my point across.

Bob

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Don't discount ARF/RTF fliers! They save some lucky builders a fortune in bits and pieces and the odd plane worth rebuilding by stocking up the club trashcans! :D

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Their crashes are my ARFs

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

growing up in Los Angeles in the fifty's  we learned by building airplane out of any thing that you could cut, we would go to the grocer and pick up wood crates that the produce was shipped in, we would then disassemble he box , the 1/2 inch ends would become the fuselage after we drew a pattern on it the wings were made from the 1/4 inch side and bottom  we might get 2 or three planes out of one box,  they couldn't fly but if you held it in your hand, and ran around in circles and made an engine noise  it was ALMOST the same,..... our desires were that it look like an airplane and we learned that nothing is impossible and other things are highly improbable  and we had a good time and were never bored..... I build be cause I can

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I build because I love the craft. I came into this hobby through building, not flying. 45 years ago I built my first stick and tissue scale model airplane, it was a Comet Corsair and was painfully bad. But I persisted. I loved gluing sticks and sheets up into something that resembled an airframe. And my early ones only very roughly resembled an airframe. I was amazed when covering was applied and it started looking like an airplane. And I was blown away when paint and decals turned it into the real thing. I built the inexpensive Comet kits for years and an occasional "expensive" Gillows. But I could never pop the $3.00 for the top of the line Guillows.

Then in the late 60's, my brother comes back from Vietnam with a box full of motors and gave me a Fox .35 stunt. That was the day that rocked my world! At first I just played with it in the garage. Finally I realized, "Hey, I can fly my planes now!" I started building the Goldberg series of C/L stunters. I couldn't believe how easy they were to build after all the Comet kits I had built.

After College I bought a used Falcon 56 and a clapped out World Engines 4 channel radio and learned to fly R/C. It was still before the days of ARFs but it wouldn't have mattered, it was more a case of wanting something to do after I finish building an airplane.

Here, many years later, the world has changed greatly. I could buy an airplane and go fly for much less work and much less cost than if I built it myself. But I still have the love of building. There is something about taking a pile of balsa and a set of plans, cutting and fitting the parts, shaping and sanding the wood, building up the individual components, integrating the pieces and finally having an in the bones airframe. Then the magic of covering happens and suddenly it changes from being a project into being an airplane. You no longer see the mistake on F-3 or the filler in the tail fairing. The pain of all the laminations are covered and gone. Now all you see is the airplane that you've dreamed of. And usually, it exceedes anything that you expected when you started. Then to top it off, you see many enjoyable hours of flying ahead of you.

Best of all, there is no compromise. There is no accepting of a color scheme or fixing an ARFs problems, making do with someone else's idea of what is good enough. I build them the way I want them. I know they are straight, true and well suited to my style of flying.

Why do I build? Because I love the process. I love the dreaming, the thinking and the planning. I love every minute in the model room gluing, sanding and building. I love producing what I consider a work of art that will blow away the guys at R/C club. And after all that joy, I have one of the best looking and best flying airplanes at the field.

That's why I build!

Any questions?

Dave

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Oh, flyme2moon, what a great story! You said in one paragraph what took me many. There's that dream.

Dave

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Dave,

Don't you still miss the old Comet kits? I bought an old Comet Ryan SC kit on Ebay last year because it was my first airplane. Cost 16 times what the first one did but it was worth owning again. I wish Gillow would consider selling the old Comet plans if not producing vintage kits. Gillow bought out all the Comet designs as well as some of the others.

Mike

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Mike,

I still buy an occasional Comet, Gillows or other free flight kit. Something about getting back to one's roots. My most highly prized plane I've ever built was a Sig Mr. Mulligan that I built about 15 years ago. What a great kit! And considering the subject matter, a great flier.

Dave

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I build for the creative release and sense of accomplishment (read as therapy) . At the end of the (therapy) session I have something to show for it and something to enjoy . You rarely get something tangeable from a therapist and building is cheaper too.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I build becauseo it is my RandR.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Like reading a stream-of-consciousness blog by James Joyce...

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Pride. My dad was not a modeler, but was a really crafty guy who instilled in us a pride of workmanship. He was a plumbing contractor who was working on his house and garden up to the last two weeks of his life, before leaving it at 84. It rubbed off.

I kind of scanned all that other stuff, and it was kinda all over the place, so I just addressed the opening bit.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Have you ever had a day where you go to the flying field and spend most of the day BS'ing with the guys instead of flying? I do the same thing sometimes all by myself in my workshop. I can go down there, think about what, or how, I may build one of the many projects that I have in mind, and really not do much building, but I get the same enjoyment out of it regardless. Sometimes I enjoy cleaning up the shop to get ready for the next project. It doesn't matter, its all quality "me" time, and I, for one, need that break from the everyday turmoil.

I think its the mental focus and creativity of building that gets me going. As others have said, I like building more than flying for the most part, but knowing that my plane is one-of-a kind?

Priceless.

Dave

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Scratch building purpose built planes for combat, speed, 3D, etc. and then competing with them and modifying them over the years is all part of the "thrill of the hunt".

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Because...............

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

some of the small stuff..currently flyin the E3, pulled motor on stinson and lost the red RF5 sperber in the sea. workin on a bird of time kit that;ll be converted to electric. scratchin a 50'Bucker 180 student and 44' bg gypsy 135 sailplane with small electric motor


SLOPE FAST - SOAR DEEP

guamflyer

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Oh yes, keep the pictures coming of your creations, this is the right stuff that inspires others.:D:D:D

Bob

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Because I can. Most can't

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Exactly what I thought. No need to do stu>>pid comment about an aspect of the hobby you do not care about. Makes you come trough like a jack. And it is a shame, as I also build... Yes, the OP has issues:-)

Gerry

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

NoOneFlysAtMyClub,
Those pic's are great!! Love that 6 eng thing. What did that start out as? And what are the other two? Kits or scrath built?. I love to build but just don't have the time I need to get anyone thing done.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Six engines! That must be fun getting them all tuned together!

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Very nice, and they all look fast just sitting there:-)


Gerry

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Flyer for 10 or so years, am new to building, I have a trash can full of botched kits, one completed bird and one on the bench. Why bother? Several reasons, no particular order, most having already been mentioned. One, its therapy, a way to unwind and relax. I really don't like sanding, but there's something zen about smoothing a curve or forming a piece just right. Two, learn some new modeling skills. How to make a hatch or access panel, cut wood properly, scratchbuilding a widget to go here or a detail there. Learning to use new tools. Three, gain understanding in how these planes are built and held together. Why did they do this like this or that like that? Four, the possibility of having something different from rest of planes at the field, and finally, the satisfaction that comes with having built something with your own two hands and watching it perform, and unlike a dog house or a land vehicle, it moves in 3 dimensions no less!

Building just seemed like the next logical step for me in the hobby. Crappy weather and such past couple years has knocked a big dent in my flying time, so building keeps me involved. Truth be told, I'm not near as thrilled as I used to be about flying, I too find myself generally BS'ing at the field, then rushing home to the bench. :D

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I'm near 70 years old, so I grew up building what I wanted to fly. Now I build because I can, and because I don't want a cookie cutter airplane. I enjoy the shop time and using all my equipment to cut the parts that I draw and fit to the plans that I drew as well. I build models that you can't normally get any other way. I'm in the middle of a set of wings for a quarter scale Ryan ST-A that originally was a Byron kit. I hate foam wings, hence the scratch built wings.

I am a competition scale builder and flyer. We have to sign a Builder of the Model form. That pretty much does away with using an ARF or a model that someone else built. We resurrected an old kit that had been lost to the ages, and now everyone can build it again as well.

It is an enjoyable lifelong hobby that would be watered down if I did ARF planes.

I fly well too. Don't buy into the argument that builders can't fly. We can.

Give building a try, you just might learn to love it.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I am nearly 60 years old and we had to build what we flew too, I don't think anyone stated that builder's can't fly well in this thread, It is of popular opinion that builders spend more time building than flying. ARF guys spend all there time flying airplanes they have little to no attachment too while pushing the envelope more and more because a new airplane is only a pull of the wallet away. Pretty simple who will wind up be the hot shot pilots don't you think. Anyway, I don't think this is another ARF flyers versus scratch builder thread.

Bob

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

When I took my scratch built Pageboy to a club meeting with its cute little Cox TD.010 and got looks of admiration from the old timers and looks of utter amazement from the other 'younguns' like me, it gave me great satisfaction. I know when I go to the field, not only does no one have one of these, no one has ever SEEN one fly and most have never heard the mosquito like scream of the TD .010.

I also like the challenge of building but I really like being different.

Tim

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

Tim, you obviously place a higher value on your sense of accomplishment than the typical ARFboy does. Living life is NOT just about how much of this and that we were able to do, but HOW we were able to get it done.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

I would not trade one minut of my building time for a arf. Building is a big part of my rc hobby.

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

well! i would like to say thank you to 142088 for starting this thread. it sure gives many of us the chance to answer "why" we do what we do in this building end of the airplane hobby. my start came from the joy of building Ringmasters on c/line [1962]. i was hooked then and now. i am far from the best builder. but i sure try to learn more daily from the master builders who are still at it! sadly they are passing away much to often these days. i went for years afraid of starting in scratch/building. but after building a few Ziroli warbird planes from his plans, i am still enjoying a good build. 142088 [which you would share your name with us] you ask WHY? cause for me the other side of my story is this past year was an acute attack of PTSD with more health issues . yes i am VET, but i have a life, so i pulled myself up by my boothstraps and surely only with the help of prayer and GOD i feel great these days. i now am actively scratch building again daily. so when i can figure out how to work my computer, i will post some downsized pictures of my scratch anvy float plane. a OS2U KINGFISHER with 67" wing. and after 50years my very first "E-powered" scratch "SAMSOM" float plane with 57" wing and twin powered. i never post mail like this [normally i let my bandsaw and pictures] do the talking. lol so thank you to all who post here with there great projects of JOY. and yes please keep the pic's coming. don aka airboss

RE: Why do you build and or scratch build?
 

The only reason I buy an ARF is to have something to fly while I build my scratch built model.
In that manner I spend more hours on my scratch built model which I will fly later and
maybe the only one of the kind flying. ARFs fyers are the new generation flyers in the RC hobby.
Great flyers but dont have a clue on how to set up/balance/trim a model for the most of them.
They think we oldies are weird. Unfortunately this may kill the hobby as we once have known it and
in the future we are really going to be weird when you go to the hobby shop to ask to buy a sheet of balsa
wood.