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-   -   Scratch building 105" WS S Connie L-1049 (Pics added) (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/scratch-building-aircraft-design-3d-cad-174/4538333-scratch-building-105%22-ws-s-connie-l-1049-pics-added.html)

Props4ever 07-24-2006 10:30 AM

Scratch building 105" WS S Connie L-1049 (Pics added)
 
Hi Guys,


I am starting to build model of Super Connie in 1/14 scale, i got hold of old control line model plans that i have enlarged to 105" w/s. I was working on different options with type of construction to use on the airframe of this model. Initailly i wanted to do full balsa and lite ply built up but then considered going full foamcore option!, now i have decided to make foam cores for fuselage and wings and then sheet them with 1/16 sheeting, i will also glass the whole model too. I will be powering my model with 4x ST 60 2 strokers intially, but if i needed more power then i will go to ST 75s...My model will have robart retracts and i will see if i could use trim wheels instead of plastic types. As for tri vertical Stabs, i like to know how can i get all 3 rudders to operate at the same time?, and same goes for flower flaps mechanisum. I was considering cheating on the flaps and do split types but now i rather take my time to develop system to work as flower flaps as its on actual Connies.

Is there anyone who have built Connie models before, i know there are some rc models flying around the world but i am pretty much sure none in Canada at this time, i like to know all the difficulties you guys had and where the most problematic area's are to be considered before starting on this project.


Regards,
Sammy



aerowoof 07-25-2006 05:48 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
that size model will be way overpowered with 60's the don smith model has 4 60 size 2 strokes or 91 4 strokes and it is about 135 in span.at your 105 inch span that is in the .25 size range.I built one from kyosho plans enlarged to 100 inches to match the scale of my stafford b-24 at 90 inch span and used 4 fox .25's it weighed 18 pounds.used spring air hd retracts and robart struts,flew fine had plenty of power.had to mount the tanks like it is done in the b-24 to allow for the retracts.used the astafford method from the b-24 for fowler flaps also but used two servos instead of just one and only 2 bellcranks instead of four.used seperate mini servo on each engine made setup alot easier.rudders were easy.just connect the outers to the middle via rod for a horn and a linkage running thru the stab to the center rudder.

johnnyo 07-26-2006 08:55 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
If you are interested, a good fried of mine has a connie short kit with custom made robart retracts. I do not remember the size. I know he was wanting to sell. If interested give me email.
JohnnyO

Props4ever 07-27-2006 01:30 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: aerowoof

that size model will be way overpowered with 60's the don smith model has 4 60 size 2 strokes or 91 4 strokes and it is about 135 in span.at your 105 inch span that is in the .25 size range.I built one from kyosho plans enlarged to 100 inches to match the scale of my stafford b-24 at 90 inch span and used 4 fox .25's it weighed 18 pounds.used spring air hd retracts and robart struts,flew fine had plenty of power.had to mount the tanks like it is done in the b-24 to allow for the retracts.used the astafford method from the b-24 for fowler flaps also but used two servos instead of just one and only 2 bellcranks instead of four.used seperate mini servo on each engine made setup alot easier.rudders were easy.just connect the outers to the middle via rod for a horn and a linkage running thru the stab to the center rudder.



Hi Aerwoof,


Mine is enlarged from Kysoho plans, originally its for U control 73" WS model but i have scaled it up to 1/14 scale = 105" WS. Yes you are right about the originally selected engine size!, when i calculated the wing loading with approx weight of 22lbs-24lbs tops it came to 50.45oz sq/in !!, just too much for this size of the model, now i have reselected and downsizeed to 4 x OS46FXs, but wing loading is still high at 45.35oz sq/in !!, i have never seen Staffords B-24 myself, but i have seen pictures of it..

Now it seems to me that i will have to down size again to 25s as you mentioned to bring my wing loading down, just wondering if it would be enough with these on abort landing situations!, would .25s have enough power to pull me out of trouble??

How are the mechanisums for the rudders and flowler flaps on Staffords B24?, is there any way i can get copies of plans which just show drawings of rudder and flowler flap set ups....i dont need full plans just that area to help me out with linkages set on my flaps and rudders.





Jojnnyo,

Sending you a PM...



SAMMY

BMatthews 07-27-2006 03:16 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
This same Super Connie misconception has come up a few times here at RCU and over at another board.

The issue comes down to the fact that the Super Connie has a rather high aspect ratio. This severley cuts into the wing area of what appears to be a LARGE airplane due to the span but in reality is only a medium size model thanks to the wing area. Your best bet would be to forget about the span and start by looking at how much wing area it has and then compare this to other models of the same wing area and figure that you will need to keep your weight down to the same amount. From that point you can then figure out what engines should be in the model. Any model flies first and foremost on the wing and if it's heavy adding more power will just produce a model that arrives at it's own crash site that much sooner. I'd suggest that you determine your wing area and then study other scale models of that same wing area for loading and power requirements. I think you'll find that the Connie will need to be built very light to keep the wing loading in the ballpark. Probably something like 10 to 12 lbs. At that weight each .25 would be lifting 2.5 to 3 lbs. Something that these engines are able to do easily and in a fairly sporty manner.

By all means scale the model from the plans you have but toss out pretty much all of the balsa and wood sizes and types in favour of a more suitable internal structure. U control models of that vintage were almost all overbuilt by quite a healthy, or rather unhealthy, amount. About the only things you can use from the blown up plans are the fuselage bulkhead shapes and perhaps wing ribs. But even those much be modified to deal with a thinner and more appropriate sheeting size for the fuselage.

Props4ever 07-27-2006 08:09 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Hi Bruce,

I see your point, now being said that my wing area is 1155 sq/in !!, and current suggested weight of the model is 320oz!!, now these figure are bringing wing loading down to 39.89 oz sq/in which in my books seems to be on high side with Webra 25s as power source!!, but i am not expert by any means on Multi engined models so these figures could be ok, or may be not!.....I have chosen to not to use any bulkheads and ribs in my construction since its foamcore model ( fuselage cores and wing cores) except for diehedrial bracers and spars, i will built engine necelles with 1/8 lite ply for main structure and then add foam around the whole bodies of necelles.

We are only suggesting weight to be max of 22-24lbs fully built, glass and painted airframe, but this could be on higher side also by estimation right now. i haven't seen many models in this range of wing area's as yet, can you point out some for me to look at.....Thanks.



Sammy

TLH101 07-27-2006 11:40 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
For what it's worth, I built a 110" B-24 a couple years ago. It has the long narrow, high aspect, wing like a Connie. It weighed about 21#, if I remember correctly, and with 4 Mag .40 XLs, had tons of power. Would fly well on 3 engines, but could not sustain altitude on 2 (R.I.P.) [&o].
A friend flys a Don Smith Connie with 4 Mag .91 four strokes at 40+ lbs. you can see some vids here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_laB8yq8WGo

Mike Emilio 07-27-2006 01:47 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Would anyone have an idea what kind of weight savings there might be if done in fiberglass? Ya I know it's a ton of work not to mention the extra expense of making such a large plug, but it might be do-able if the wing loading can be significantly reduced. The key word here is significant.

aerowoof 07-29-2006 11:39 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
actually do not worry too much about the wing laoading at 14 pounds a stafford b-24 is pushing close to 35 oz/sq ft and flies fine.if you build light you should be able to come in well under 20 pounds.chris golds 90 lancaster is built from foam and covered with kradt paper and glue,very heavy vs cloth and epoxy.they use .25 size engines and fly fine.give me your e-mail address and i will send picturers of the flap and rudder linkage as well as scketch from the plans.when i calculated wing area of my 100" connie I was around 1000 squares.you must remember that wing area increases exponentially as you increase the scaling factor.ie a model 2x bigger has 4 x the area.there have been successful flights of the controline model converted to r/c with four os 25[old stlye] in rcm about 1975.no retracts at that size though.one thing is do not get discouraged.If you need help e-mail me or ask here.

aerowoof 07-29-2006 12:02 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
where are you getting your finished weight from?I built a 13/16 scale model from the same plans at 100" wing span weighed 18 pounds used four fox .25's your 1/14 model is not that much larger and the webra 25's have a lot more power than my fox 25's do.engine reliability is more important than over power.most scale multi engine planes fly at 3/4 to 1/2 power for scale speed.the flaps will help on landings as they do increase the wing area the way they deploy.

Props4ever 08-01-2006 02:08 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Hi,

I am wondering what would be the RC Scale speed of Vs real speed of 314 mph?. I also want to know what will be the throttle setting on our TXs to fly our multi engined models in that represented speed, 1/2 throttle or 2/3rd throttle or maybe 1/3rd throttle.

Sammy

aerowoof 08-01-2006 03:42 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
no one can say what the throtle seting will be,too many variables as size of engines,weight of model,prop size and number of blades.as far as scale speed.this has been debated since scale contests have been going on.time can not be scaled so it is difficult to get a definitive value as if a 1/2 size model speed should be 157mph at 1/4 it is 78.5 at 1/14 it is ridiculous at just over 22 mph

TLH101 08-01-2006 04:15 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Scale speed is actually, what "looks right" for the model at the time of flight.

Props4ever 08-01-2006 06:38 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: aerowoof

no one can say what the throtle seting will be,too many variables as size of engines,weight of model,prop size and number of blades.as far as scale speed.this has been debated since scale contests have been going on.time can not be scaled so it is difficult to get a definitive value as if a 1/2 size model speed should be 157mph at 1/4 it is 78.5 at 1/14 it is ridiculous at just over 22 mph

So basically its all in preception of people looking at scale flying model and pilot to accomodate them selves in scale speed manner....Due to few facts that we fly models aircrafts, they really cannot be flown on redused scale speeds or they will stall and become bloobers Shocked ....

I have another question then?, if we cannot fly our scale models on reduced scale speeds then how come judges at big contests can say he is not flying scale speed vs other pilot is flying at scale speed when there is nothing that regulates the scale speed of flying model and same goes for experianced flyers for there comments on pilots flying there models at local fields!, i have heard this alot and it simply dosen't make sence to me why these kind of judgements and comments are passed on pilots over and over again...

To me when i flew my B25, i used to take off at full power to desired altitude and then reduse throttle to 1/2 or 1/3rd throttle so it looks at if its flying scale and on scale speed, to me that was good enough as i really have no idea what speeds "Mitchells" used to fly in reality but yet i have heard few comments passed on me as mentioned above on my speed of flying.

TLH101 08-01-2006 08:18 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Scale speed is not judged at a scale contest, however, "realism of flight" is judged. Scale looking speed comes under the realistic flight heading. It is part of whole package.

Props4ever 08-01-2006 10:58 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Fuselage Templetes are cut, for last 2 days i was making templates for the fuselage, now i have most of them but still missing 3-4, hopefully i will get them soon and cut them out also, i am using wall panel to stick drawing's cut out formers and then cut them into templates. Once i get all these cut, then my second step will be to mark the edges on round former templates for referance and then followed by lamination of foam sheets togather and then to cut out the core sections of the fuselage.

Sammy

ec121connie 08-02-2006 08:18 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
There is a D model at a museum here in town. If you need any detail photos let me know. I'm a retired flight engineer with a little over 5000 hours on various models.

Looking forward to the photos of your build.

SeYa ...

Props4ever 08-02-2006 09:09 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
ec121connie,

My friend thanks for the offer, as we also have "G" model with us here in Toronto, its in pieces now in storage yard, we are fighting to keep it here in Canada and that is why i started to do this model just in case we lose our battle and our CF-TGE is taken away from us least i have my Connie model. If i do need some photos i will definately ask you.
I have one question for you, the "D" model you have there does it have Radar nose and fuel tip tanks by any chance?.....

Sammy

ec121connie 08-02-2006 05:57 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
I believe this one has the radar nose and I know for sure that it has tip tanks.

Props4ever 08-03-2006 01:24 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
EC121connie,

Can you take couple of pictures of your connie, i like to see them and go from there.


Sammy

ec121connie 08-03-2006 04:34 PM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
1 Attachment(s)


Hi CONCORDEFAN,

I drove out to the museum today and discovered that they had moved all of the display aircraft into a fenced containment area while the new museum is being built. They have the planes stacked tight. I'll head back over that way next week and see if I can get a better angle for a photo or two.

This Connie was originally a Navy D model. It was recovered from the bone yard in Arizona and flown back here to be painted in the Air Force colors. The tip tanks on the Air Force version were a little different. These are much closer to the civilian version.

Here are three photos. I should be able to get you detail shots later. Just let me know what you need. The majority of the components, Gear Doors, Struts, Props and Spinners, ETC should be very similar to the aircraft you are modeling.

SeYa .....

Props4ever 08-04-2006 07:28 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Hi EC121,

Those are nice shots, you are right, your Connie is very much closer that "G" model i am modelling, for my purpose it just dosen't have pax windows as on civil version but rest looks good though...I will let you know what i need, for some strange reason i can't upload my pics of our Connie here in TO.....


Thanks,
Sammy

Boomerang1 08-05-2006 03:29 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Have you considered the 'E' word (electric)? I've built a few multi engined models using glow power but never again. Even using basic & proven low tech electric power this type of model is not just possible but a practical, fly it every weekend proposition. Check out this site http://www.geocities.com/ivansplans/ and this one http://users.bigpond.net.au/BAC/B-36_video_page_.html

The B-36 is a little bigger in span than what you are planning but only 10 1/2 pounds - lightness is the secret. A Super Connie is on my 'to do' list but it just has to be electric, any other way is the hard way. - John.

aerowoof 08-05-2006 07:46 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
what span is the b-36 112 or 115

Props4ever 08-05-2006 08:18 AM

RE: Scratch building 105" W/S Super connie L-1049 G
 
Hi John,

I have plans of electric 115" WS B36 also, i will most likely do that as electric model, but for my Connie i have chosen most reliable and forgiving OS 46FXs, so i should be ok with these power plants.....I haven't got myself into electrics as yet so, i wont build model this size and go totally different route, specilly of which i don't have clue or.....


Sammy


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