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8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

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Old 03-07-2013, 03:35 PM
  #1
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Default 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well I have this posted on the war birds FORUM but I thought you guys over here
may be interested in following along w/ my PBY build also if I get a good enough respoance here I'll post as much as I do on my other 6 threads.

Well after a long debate w/ myself I thought I would start yet another build, there's not much in the way of balsa building to be done on my other two and it's been far to long since anything has been pinned to my cork building board.

So here we go again this will be the PBY-5 notice there's no A in that there will NOT be any landing gear, this will be the flying boat version but it will be a WARBIRD these planes had so many rolls during WW2 and were used by the USA, United Kingdom, Canada, Russia and the Australians to name a few.

The PBY was in production in SEPTEMBER 1936 - MAY 1945 and some are still flying in service for fire fighting.

It had three 30 cals and two 50 cals and could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs, depth charges or torpedoes and had a range of over 2,500 miles.

I will again most likely do a night fighter version ( THE BLACK CAT)
but I haven't made up my mind yet and haven't picked a squad.

All of my parts will be hand cut and put together w/ hand tools cordless drills, dremal,bench grinder, band saw, hand held belt sander will be the only power tools just like all of my builds to date.

I will also be doing some changes to the design but not very many I'll add some carbon fiber tubing through the wings and some heavier ply in the fuse, the fuse will be fiber glassed and the wings covered w/ fabric maybe solartex but I may go old school w/ silk & dope?

I would like to thank my friend Steve for scanning and enlarging the plans for me
The plane will have an 8' WS & 5' FUSE

Here are the plans hanging up in my building room.
This is the site you can get some Vintage plans from.

http://www.vintagercplans.com/order.htm

Well now I have to just start making my parts.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

here's some more photos of my progress.
If you have any questions please ask.

Bruce
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

and some more progress shots.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well the work on the Catalina continues today I worked on the smaller FORMER parts and realized F-2 doesn't need to be 1/8" ply because I'm not putting a nose wheel up there.

But it is the cockpit area and will be open on top so to keep it strong I made up some more home made ply 3/32" balsa core w/ 1/16" ply on one side and 1/16 hard balsa
on the other side w/ the grain running the other direction of the cores.

The photos show more than I can say, so check the progress and just ask any questions you may have.

Bruce
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Still working on some small fuse parts until the ply gets here, more shots.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:01 AM
  #6
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well I stayed up late last night and my self made balsa ply had dried so I lay up
F2, F2A, H1,H2,H3, F6 AND F16 to be cut and cut them out.

That ply I made is very strong and supper light this part could have just been balsa
because there's no landing gear to mount at the bottom this is the only reason I can see
that Robert was calling for 1/8" ply here.

But this is the cockpit area and it's not going to have any thing except the canopy at the top and it a large open area, this is why I
added the one sheet of 1/16" thick ply.

Also if you look at the design and how I made my mods there's not much where the
stringers pass through If this were just balsa it would most likely fail at this point.

Today I'll work on the FIN & Rudder and all other AFT end parts,
check the photos for my progress.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well the plywood arrived 2:00 pm this afternoon but be for It did I cleared off the building table and put both of my cork building boards together after finishing drilling the rest of the parts and sanding them.

So once I had the ply I had to figure out the best way to lay my templates out to give the best yield and then spray them w/ LOCTITE spray adhesive, this something new I trying they make two kinds this one for general performance normely I use 3M SPRAY 77 but this was $5 and the 77 was $10 I'll take have price any day.
then I cut out the rest of my parts and broke for dinner and to post, I'm going to get back to it this evening and try to dry fit all of the formers and get a good look at what I have going on. check the progress photos.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well I kept on working on the formers until they were finished then started to run the stringers through the 1/4" sq holes the bottom two are balsa and run all the down the FUSE.
For the top I cut out spruce for the aft end and basswood for the front there's still a bunch of tweeking, squaring, andwith the whole set up.

that's it for the night (morning)

Bruce
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Hi:I envy someone who can do work like that!!!!I wil be watching closely as a while ago I bought what is referred as a Sid Morgan PBY at a swap.It is hanging in my garage aging.Was never flown looks to have mounts for about a 60 engine!Will be watching to see how you handle the wing tubes as it has the old Ply slide in mounts like you plan and the result is it really needs the wing struts to support the wing it sags badlly!It also has a gear mounted to the plane permently.After watching my friend nose dive his bueatiful Widgon straight into the pavement yesterday on maiden flite I think will stick to water for intial flites no matter what they say it is softer than blacktop!!I think the 60s would be to small also of course the OS 91s fit same spot!Good luck will be following along!I also am seriously considering buying one of those twin sync setups for it have lost most every twin have had on some type of engine failure!Bob
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Good job. Thanks for posting the pictures of the vintagerc plans. I didn't realize how nicely they are drawn. I might do one of these someday, after I finish the Martin Mars.
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Old 03-10-2013, 04:44 AM
  #11
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Thanks guys and welcome onboard
I'm trying to stay w/ .45 two strokes so I won't have to cut the cowlings, there will NOT BE LANDING GEAR on this model.

Mustang.... these plans will have to have some mods and I have already made some so keep watching if your going to buld one also.

eagle.. thanks for your kind words.

Alright guys I was able to get some work done first I cut NEW stringers out of spruce
so while I was at it I also cut the stringers for the wings.

I bought a 6" piece and ripped them out this time I made the ones for the fuse slightly
under sized if you have ever put one of these together you know why, it's very hard to push the stringers through w/ out moving everything else at the same time.

So I did two things sanded them very smooth and cut pieces of foam the correct size
as shown on the plans to space the formers while pushing the stringers into position.

What I'm having troubles w/ is that the top is suppose to be a straight line from the cockpit to just be for the tail as shown on the drawing.

I have lifted the FUSE w/ some foam over the drawings and have the ribs over there correct place and it's close but you will see in the photos there's a 1/8" or so the bottom hull all lines up?
To check this even farther I will make the hatch above the cockpit to check the front as well, So have a look and I would love to hear from anybody that's put one of these together or has and intelligent idea about this.

Bruce
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:28 AM
  #12
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Bruce, great progress so far.

You're going to have to do something other than the foam to clamp that framework into the correct position until you get enough planking done that it will hold it's shape.

From what you have there, I'd flip it over and clamp that top set of stringers to blocks then the table to hold it square while I planked the sides and bottom, then it would be solid enough to finish up the top sections.

good luck,, watching
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Thanks for checking in ...scale only 4 me That's what I was tinking I'm working on my way
to hold these formers sq. while planking them.

Alright about the build that AFT section that I was talking about needing to stay in a straight line I fixed it, the tail section of this plane lifts a great deal to keep the fins out of the water.
so I changed my jiging and lifted the tail higher so the belly is now very curved and the top is in a straight line, now I'm working on lining all of the formers up again over the plans.
If you go to build this plane w/ these plans be aware you can put a TWIST in the FUSE very easy I will check everything many times be for any glue is applied.
Here's a shot of my changes so far.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/image...bcontainer.png); font-family: Lato, sans-serif; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; margin-top: 10px; font-size: 14.399999618530273px;">
Bruce
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:33 PM
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Alright today I got back in the build room and glued up the formers to the stringers
I did mine different than it shows on the plans my bottom stringers run all the way to the aft end of the fin.

Robert has this in two pieces most likely because there 5' stringers so the slots in the formers where the two pieces were suppose to join together I have a double stringer from F9 to almost F12.

I had one of my followers ( scale only for me) tell me I would need more than the foam to jig the fuse for planking this is true but I used them to help glue the formers
they gave me a starting place w/ all of the formers very close to there location.

I started w/ F7 and got it sq. over the drawing this was the hardest one once it was good I glued it in then worked out in both directions checking everything with a sq. I had about 6-7 of them clamped to the formers as I moved down the FUSE gluing.

All are glued now but F1 & F2 and I'm working on the LOWER section of the FIN now I'will make FR1& FR2 out of ply even though Robert calls for 1/16" balsa
this part is where the RUDDER horn will pass through and act as the lower hing.

Check the photos they tell you more than I can.

Bruce
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:14 AM
  #15
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Alright this morning I flipped the whole FUSE upside down and repined everything in place and she looking good there is a small amount of angle deflection but I can live w/ that there is no twist in the fuse and she is very solid.

The next step is to make a template that creates the tayperd point on the aft end of
the HULL I will make it out of heavy art paper until I have what I want.

I will just warn you guys in advance that I will not be doing the normal PLANKING
w/ a thousand strips of balsa and 5 bottles of glueway to much time and mess for me. I will do this skin just like both of my last builds if you haven't seen them look here
Pg 5 report 67.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1457284&page=5
and you'll understand how I will pull this off. And after it's skinned I will glass it w/ 3M resin & 2oz cloth on the bottom and part of the sides, for those of you that won't think it will be strong enough.

Check the progress photos I'm moving on to phase two of the build.

Bruce
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #16
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Well I bent the strips for the HULL today and there just dry fit so to say after wetting w/ alcohol BUT NO GLUE YET. The strips are home made 1/8" balsa ply made w/ two strips of 1/16" sheet and white Gorilla glue.
Check out the progress photos.

Bruce
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:30 PM
  #17
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

my father flew in
the PBY he wasn't a pilot but still loved this plane let's hope I will do a good likeness
for all of those who have served or worked on and have been around this part of our history.

Today I cleaned up sanded the parts I glued on last night I spent some time getting an idea how to SKIN this baby I know I will have to do some thin strip planking in some of the more tightly curved places, but trying to keep that to a small amount.

I want to sheet skin as much as I can ( I'm not fond of strip planking) so to do this
w/ out moving the formers I've added some extra stringers just a few so far more to follow I'm sure.
I cut some sheeting for the bottom and I will run the grain at a 45 or so angle this adds strength w/ out all of the gluing and mess.
check the progress photos still a whole bunch to do yet.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:05 PM
  #18
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

I did some more gluing/sanding this evening check the progress.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:05 AM
  #19
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Lookin good, Bruce. Your airplane shop looks like mine- more of a shipyard than anything else.

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Old 03-14-2013, 08:35 AM
  #20
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Thanks Bob well it's a flying boat YEA


Well this morning I started on the sides of the plane/ boat the plans call for 3/8" thick balsa for the forward area above the waterline running about mid way back, my plane is different because there's no wheel.

This part I'll have to make up as I go but It needs to continue back to former F8
the thing of it is this piece needs to have a compound curve in it, curving toward the nose tip and toward the aft section rounding to follow the formers curves.

First I didn't have any 3/8" balsa but I had some 1/2" that would have been to much to sand so I set up a rip fence on my band saw. I had a folower ask about cutting and getting clean cuts and I told him to go slow and let the saw cut the wood, Well when ripping through something thick 2 1/2" in this case you REALLY HAVE TO GO SLOW and hold the board sq. on it's edge w/ a fence and leave extra so you can sand it smooth and finish it to size w/ 80 grit sand paper.
Once I had my thickness I cut out the shape.

So here's how I took care of that you have to CURFF almost all the way through the
3/8" thickness and at former F3 you have to change the direction of the curffs.
The other thing I did was set up my back saw so I couldn't cut all the way through the
3/8" balsa piece by mistake, the photos will show this better than I will explane.

So I glued w/ CA glue a sq. 1/4" x 1/2" balsa strip to the blade of the saw once I had
cut to the proper depth this way all cuts will be the same.
Then I lay out lines w/ 1/4" spacing and cut them all.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:37 AM
  #21
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

And a few more photo.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:34 AM
  #22
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

.Well there's not another build that has done this part of the build using these plans that I can find there's one on RCU Seaplanes but he hasn't built the whole fuse yet and he's also doing the A version.

There's a little bit of difference on the sides because I'm not making the wheel bays, but there's so many layers of balsa w the way Robert has design this plane.

Near as I can tell you apply all of the balsa sheets and (GRIND) rough sand the
out of the bugger, but i'm looking at how all of the sheets come together
on one side as a learning process.

So I've popped on the top of FORMERS F5 & F8 in just to see how they'll work out w/ the skinning, this is just like a scratch build witch I like a lot of challenges.

So to bring you up to date I added in the sides where the wheel bays would have been, here instead of KERFFING the 3/8" thick balsa I'll lay up four sheets of 3/32"
glued w/ white gorilla glue.

So check the progress photos I have one layer on one side and three on the other
I stopped at this point because it looks like the last layer covers from above at the wing joiner all the way down to the water line.

This is what I'm checking now trying to get all of these layers clear in my mind, I know there's a bunch of sanding and carving on this plane.

I will be eliminating some of the heavy carved balsa chunks
where possible w/ fiber glass parts made from the lost foam method.

Here's where I'm at so far,

Bruce
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:16 AM
  #23
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Bruce- what were you thinking of for power? And what is the anticipated weight, ready to fly?
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:49 AM
  #24
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Mustang... .46 two strokes and there's nobody that has one of these built w/ out landing gear that I know about and I 'm not using all of the big blocks of balsa on my build I will use foam and fiberglass parts that I'll make from the lost foam method, SO it's any bodies guess
I'll try and get a weight in a bit but it's to soon to be worried about that mine will be LESS WEIGHT than the orignal design was made at that's for sure and NO LANDING GEAR!!

Bruce

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Old 03-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #25
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Default RE: 8'WS PBY-5 Vintage Plans Robert Sweitzer

Scale prop size for your Cat is 9" (@ 1:15.6 scale) The only way a 46 will develop any decent thrust at that diameter is to really scream. For example, my Shrike 40 is powered by an OS 46AX swinging a 10x6 APC prop. It turns 14,500 RPM on the ground, which comes out to 1.3 HP, 82mph, and about six pounds of static thrust. The temptation is to power it that way and then plan on throttling back to get a realistic speed for the model (say 55 mph tops). At that speed, you're turning 8500 rpm but you're getting only 1.8 pounds of thrust per engine, which I don't think is enough to move that airplane through the sky at 55mph. (Too much drag.) So, basically, you're going to end up on the back side of the power curve and the poor thing will be miserable to fly, if it will fly at all.

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of info on this model of Cat. Not a lot of guys have built them, and I haven't been able to find a single flight report, except for that guy in Italy who crashed his on the maiden. But- if it was me- I'd go electric. A pair of 46 size motors on 5 cell LiPos should work real well in this application, with the added benefit that you can go counter rotating props, which really makes the handling a lot nicer. If you're interested, I'll go to the online calculator and work up the numbers for you.
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