MissileTM

I'm interested in flying off the water and can't decide if I should get a Seaplane/Flying boat like a Seamaster or should I just buy a set of Floats for one of the planes I have already? Which is easier or more fun to fly? I have been flying for several years off land and now that I have a boat I want to try flying off water.

Thanks in Advance for your Reply

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

IMHO, flying hulls are WAY better (easier AND more fun) than floats. And my favorite planes are the Mariner 40 and the Seamaster. The Mariner is a bit tamer than the Seamaster, so go with what you will be most comfortable with regarding your experience level.

MissileTM

I was thinking of maybe getting the Seamonster from Hobby People. I have an extra 61 laying around, but don't know much about that plane, it looks like a Seamaster.

evan-RCU

Both are good, like any other aspect of our hobby, it's nice to have different styles. I have both and I think a simple trainer on floats is easier and more fun but then flying boats are fun too, example in the first picture is a very easy to fly float plane, takes off quick and lands at zero speed. Below it is another float plane and though it gets off the water fast it lands a little faster. It's harder to fly but just as fun. I have other float planes, I also have a Northstar which would be a flying boat and all are fun in their own way.... Oh, and they can fly in snow too, the the bottom picture was a Dazzler on Gee Bee floats that I flew yesterday.

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

Flying boats have the advantage of being a litle closer to the water so they can tolerate more wind when taxiing. The wingtip floats, if properly sized, keep the wings more level. The radio stuff is in the hull, and the prop throws spray which can get in thru the wing saddle. The motor pod has to be connected to the radio stuff, adding a small degree of complexity.

Floatplanes have the radio stuff in the fuselage where it stays dryer. You can take your favorite plane and slap floats on it for a lot less money than building a flying boat. You can swap the wheels and floats relatively easily if you have put any thought at all into your float installation.

There is not a clear-cut performance advantage. A clean floatplane is fast. Floats are not the draggy monsters everybody seems to think, and the hull of a flying boat is a float which is twice as big as one of the floats on a floatplane. Theoretical drag advantages of a flying boat are offset by the wingtip floats and motor pod anyway.

Seamasters and Mariners are fabulous airplanes. So is a Kadet Senior or an Astro-hog on floats.

Build what you like and go have fun.

Jerry Sigur

I fly both flying boats and float planes, both have advantages and
disadvantages. That being said I guess I prefer a properly set up
float plane. I find that flying boats require a much more delicate
touch on the ailerons to keep the tip floats out of the water
during the take off run and landing run out. If the tip floats
dig in it usually results in a "water loop". However some
the prettiest amphibs are flying boats soooo...............;-).
Jerry

MissileTM

Ok.... I ended up getting the Aero Phibian from Hobby People. Looks like a pretty easy ARF to build. The fuse looks really beefy. It is kind of heavy, so I am gonna put a 52 2 stroke on it. The only thing I see that is kind of wierd is it has a servo mounted to the bottom of the fuse near the CG for rudder control on the floats. Not sure how this is gonna work out. Any suggestions on how to get away from having it exposed under the plane??

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I don't like that either. It WILL get wet, no doubt about it!

here's an easy solution that we use on the Goldberg Cub:

Just run a flexable pushrod from the rudder to the water rudder.

MissileTM

Yeah, that should work. How about using throttle cable? should work too maybe a little more flexible? or would it corrode to fast? It looks like it is well built other than that. The floats look really big, what is the rule of thumb there? They look like they would work on a bigger model.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Throttle cable would work, but I'd stick to plastic just to avoid the posibility of rust.

I believe that the rule of thumb for float size is 75% of fuse size. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

I've flown both flying boats and float equipped planes and can agree with the above posts.

Float flying is sooo much fun, you can't go wrong either way.

You'll never regret trying water flying.....

Dart373

My Feedback: (2)

I tell you what, I have done some pretty scarey things with my 40 Seamaster. Its an amazing airplane for what it is and cost. I have taken off in a 10kt. cross wind with no problem.

mahoo

Search Ezone for Design.xls spreadsheet link. It has a great sheet for designing float sizes.

Mitch

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

I have a Sea Master with a OS 50. I looked at a Sea Monster at my LHS and I'm glad I got the Sea Master.

I bought a second wing, made two nacelles and installed two T.T.36 engines. Now I can fly the same hull as a single or twin just by unpluging the OS 50, cover the hole and mount the other wing.
First flight as a twin will be the first Sat of next month.

MrBanks

Hey,
I was wondering about river flying. The current is a little rough in some places(small waves). What do you guys think would work better; a float plane or a flying boat?

Thanks
Banks

Stanoo

There is a product called AeroTrend its a dielectric oil you can dip your rx and your servo guts in this stuff and the water isn't so much of a problem anymore use to use it all the time on boats I have soaked the radio box many many times after treating the electronics with this stuff just shakem off and keep on trucking.

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

MrBanks,

Always make sure you have a plan to retrieve your plane when float flying. If the current is so fast that there is a possibility that you couldn't get to your plane with your retrieval boat, then I wouldn't do it. We've flown from a river up here, but it is a very wide spot and the current is not too fast. The decision is up to you, but I would say that if you have any doubts then you should find a lake.

Jeff

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, Mr. Banks, GoinStraightUp is right.

The first three rules of float flying are:
(1) You need access to a boat.
(2) Really.
(3) I'm not kidding.
Especially if you are flying in a river.

As far as your ripple questions go, it won't be a problem. If you have a little tiny model that lands way too fast, then maybe, but I have flown lots of .40-size planes on 32" floats, and a Senior Telemaster on 45" floats, and powerboat wakes are not a problem.

MissileTM

Hey Stan, where can I get my hands on some of that AeroTrend stuff? I could use it in my boats too....

Stanoo

http://www.aerotrend.com/shop_cat.php?cat=1

Sorry for the slow reply but it is called aeroplate sorry

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

I have both a Sea Monster/Saito .72 flying boat and a couple of float planes (Fazer/Tower .46, SK-50/OS .61SF, Stuntwagon/TT .46).

The Sea Monster is a really easy flying plane that appears well built. The pylon has a fiberglass sheet center for strength and the T-style stab had aluminum angle brackets to bolt it on, in addition to glue. The hull from the step forward is a fully fiberglass, V-bottom. There is no hatch in the front and mine didn't take any nose weight. The rudder has this little curve downward to act as a water rudder.

I thought the pylon was pretty wobbly until I test flew a Mariner for a buddy. It was even worse so I guess I am worrying needlessly. The Sea Monster did handle well on the water in a fairly high wind: 10-15 reported. My buddy said he saw a white cap or 2, but I didn't. The Monster got off in about 10 feet and landed in a walk. No stalling problems at all.

The land planes with floats fly about the same. As Jim Casey says, floats aren't all that draggy after all.

I do notice that sea planes fly inverted really well. Must be getting lift from the floats or hull.

I have been flying glow powered model airplanes since 1950, but until very recently, I have never been near a sea plane. The Sea Fazer was my first float plane. It was an old, not being used, fun fly plane with an old Tower .46 in it and old servos-basically junk. I bought some Falcon Trading Company plastic floats and a second landing gear from Sig and I was float flying. Rather than doing it this way, I would recommend going with a flying boat (1st choice) or buying a plane that comes with floats (2nd choice). This is a lot easier than making your own struts and getting the step and the float angle correct the first time. I read everything I could find on float flying and there is a lot of stuff out there and, I won't say none, but not a lot of it agrees on step placement, float angle, water rudders, everything. For example, I have articles that show the step placement to be 1/2 inch forward of the CG all the way back to 3 1/2 inches behind it. The easiest way, not the cheapest, for getting into float flying is buying a flying boat. There are 4 available, and as far as I can tell, pick the color you like: Sea Master, Neptune, Sea Monster, Mariner. The first 3 are T-tail and the Mariner has a low tail.

Follow Jim's rule about the boat, but keep your idle up. It's a new experience and tons of fun.

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Huh? My pylon on my SeaCruiser is rock solid. That is interesting...


I've read and always used a step that is either on or 1/2 inch behind the CG. Always worked great.

Jeff

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

How is the Sea Cruiser built compared to the ARFs? It has the pylon mounted on the wing so no wonder the design uses an extremely wide pylon. Those mounted in the fuselage are more narrow and more flimsy. Too bad they don't make a Sea Cruiser ARF or even a kit.

Read the article in RC Modeler about converting a fun fly plane to floats. The author shows a Pizzaz and an Ultra Stick. He states 3 1/2 inches. My point was, there is no consistency in the articles I have read starting with Chuck Cunningham's float article forward.

After reading all this mess, my thoughts were, "I'll put it somewhere behind the CG and go for it. I am flying a 5 pound airplane with a .46 and using 45 degrees of elevator travel and flaperons. Some time or other, I am going to get airborne!"

I think there aren't enough sea plane fliers for there to have been a lot of research. People find what works for someone else in their club and use that. I don't think anyone has ever taken the same plane and moved the step from, say, an inch ahead of the CG to 5 inches behind it and recorded the results. You see lots of pictures and lots of advice, but not much hard data. You can find data showing that forward of 25% CG the plane will be way nose heavy and you'll need lots of up elevator even to flare. And with the CG behind 35%, you'll be way tail heavy and the plane will oscillate, be hard to keep level and may crash. Show me something other than someone's opinion about what happens when the step is moved. I may just have to take the time to do this.

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Great points as usual Ed.

You are right, the pylon is on the wing. I can see where that makes a difference.

I was basing most of my info on the Chuck Cunningham info.

[link=http://www.flyinglindy.homestead.com/files/Flt04.jpg]Float Info[/link]

It worked great for me, but as you said, there are many different types of aircraft. 3 1/2" aft of the CG step seems like a lot, but maybe the Pizazz needs it. I flew 2 different Pizazzes on wheels and the wing is very fat, which may be the cause of needing the step so far aft.


Jeff

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

ON water rudders, on a hull type fuse, just drop a rudder off the bottom of the planes rudder and into the water. It works fine.

On one with floats, do it like MN stated above, or on my stik 60 on floats, I have no water rudder on it at all and it turns fine. I have a ludicris amount of rudder on the bird, but it turns on the water in all conditions as well as anyone elses. Won't do it when the engine isn't running like a water rudder would, but other than that, it is fine.