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Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

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Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

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Old 06-29-2004, 09:21 AM
  #51  
marwen1
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Hey Villy:

Which of the two is larger?
the F-102 or the F -106
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Old 06-29-2004, 11:14 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Seems like a toss up.....

I wonder how well those mighty mouse missiles on the -102 worked,..... I would suspect that you would want to get right up the bad guy's tail pipe!!


F-102 (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...ghter/f102.htm)

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 38 ft. 1 in.
Length: 68 ft. 4 in. (including boom)
Height: 21 ft. 2 in.
Weight: 31,559 lbs. max.
Armament: 24 unguided 2.75 inch rockets and six guided missiles
Engine: One Pratt & Whitney J57 of 16,000 lbs. thrust with afterburner
Cost: $1,184,000
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 810 mph.
Cruising speed: 600 mph.
Range: 1,000 miles
Service Ceiling: 55,000 ft.

F-106 (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf30.htm)

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 38 ft. 4 in.
Length: 70 ft. 9 in.
Height: 20 ft. 4 in.
Armament: One AIR-2A Genie air-to-air nuclear missile and four AIM-4 Falcon air-to-air missiles.
Engine: One Pratt & Whitney J75-P-17 of 24,500 lbs. thrust with afterburner
Crew: One
Cost: $3,305,435
Serial Number: 58-787
PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 1,525 mph
Cruising speed: 650 mph.
Range: 1,500 miles
Service Ceiling: 53,000 ft.
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Old 06-29-2004, 02:08 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

And for comparison the late CF-105 (http://www.vectorsite.net/avarrow.html)

AVRO CANADA CF-105 ARROW MARK 2 (ESTIMATES):
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

wingspan 15.24 meters 50 feet
wing area 113.80 sq_meters 1,225 sq_feet
length 25.3 meters 83 feet
height 6.25 meters 20 feet 6 inches

empty weight 22,250 kilograms 49,000 pounds
max loaded weight 31,100 kilograms 68,600 pounds

maximum speed 3,200 KPH 2,000 MPH / 1,740 KT
service ceiling 18,300 meters 60,000 feet
operational radius 480 kilometers 775 MI / 675 NMI (note radius not range)
_____________________ _________________ _______________________
and the Iroquois engine (of which there were 2)

dry thrust of 82.4 kN (8,400 kgp / 18,500 lbf) and an afterburning thrust of 115.8 kN (11,800 kgp / 26,000 lbf). (this number would seem to be based upon numbers from the early tests - expectations were that the production versions would hit at least 30,000 wet).

The Arrows were only ever flown with the J75 engine (same as the F-106). I do remember reading somewhere that the J75 was too long for the CF-105, so they left the
afterburned section off. This could be fairy tail, considering that the arrow did manage M1.5 during tests - would two J75s dry push a 55,000 lb aircraft to M1.5 ??

In any case, the J75 was also heavier than the Iroquois which made significant use of titanium....
So Iroquois engines would have provide 52K to 60K lbs of thrust to an aircraft with a maximum loaded weight of 69000lbs. I would expect that it should have been able to do the Concorde thing - reheat to get past the sonic barrier, and back to dry for "super cruise"..

Oh well......

Villy
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Old 07-03-2004, 01:11 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Update

Covering is done,

Working on float testing

SGG
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Old 07-03-2004, 06:31 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Very nice buttttttt

Your water is so clean I can't tell where the water line IS!!!!!!

Villy
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Old 07-04-2004, 02:31 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Some water line pictures

SG
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Old 07-04-2004, 06:57 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

The cleat on the bow is a nice touch..

what does one have to do to raise the sails ??

Villy

(Very Nice!!) (the pool etc too!)
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Old 07-06-2004, 04:29 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

2 days progress

Engine run, amphibious launch, water taxi, high speed take off run, ground (water) effect flight.
Had to deal with a couple bumps along the way but every thing else turned out good.
The plane gets on step very easily, I installed 2 small balsa wedges to keep the tips from going under, the lack of tip floats on this plane is not and issue.

To get into the water easy, place the plane on the grassy shore, and taxi in, wading into a swamp is not a good thing.

I have only done short hops into the air so far with it, trying to find a better pond.

SGG

PS Any one else building Arrows right now?
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Old 07-06-2004, 06:53 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I plan to build the arrow as well but will probably end out as a winter project. Plans were ordered about three weeks ago but haven't arrived yet.


In relation to an earlier post on the Avro Arrow... There is a serious error on the website in the conversion of 480 km to miles. They multiplied by 1.6 instead of dividing by 1.6!!! I have no idea which number is correct but probably miles since Canada was not metric at that time.

Ross

ORIGINAL: Villy

And for comparison the late CF-105 (http://www.vectorsite.net/avarrow.html)

AVRO CANADA CF-105 ARROW MARK 2 (ESTIMATES):
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

spec metric english
_____________________ _________________ _______________________

wingspan 15.24 meters 50 feet
wing area 113.80 sq_meters 1,225 sq_feet
length 25.3 meters 83 feet
height 6.25 meters 20 feet 6 inches

empty weight 22,250 kilograms 49,000 pounds
max loaded weight 31,100 kilograms 68,600 pounds

maximum speed 3,200 KPH 2,000 MPH / 1,740 KT
service ceiling 18,300 meters 60,000 feet
operational radius 480 kilometers 775 MI / 675 NMI (note radius not range)
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Ross

I found another site that quoted a range of 800 some odd miles. I would guess that the operational radius of 480 MILES is probably correct. Now whether that's Statute or Nautical is another issue!!

Also remember, that was with Internal Fuel only.

Villy
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Old 07-09-2004, 09:07 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Maiden flight 2day,

Went well, 1/4” up trim required for full power level flight. When power is reduced on the arrow the nose pitches up. It is easy to take off and land. I captured some pictures of the video of the flight.
I would recommend this plane to anyone thinking about getting into seaplanes. It took 2 to 3 weeks of work to build and its easy to fly. Laddie has a winner with this plane.

SGG
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Old 07-11-2004, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I love how that Arrow looks. I just went back and looked at all your pics and they are great. I have a Northstar and your right about the weight in the nose. I'm making upgrades right now due to a crash yesturday,lost my prop just after takeoff [:@]. Are the plans you get from RCM full size? or did you blow them up larger? Are you intrested in selling that beauty? I don't need a motor or radio just the plane. Also, have you tried just taking off in the wet grass in the morning or after a rain? I like to fly mine in the winter off the snow. Keep up the great pics.
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Old 07-11-2004, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Hi there,

I sent the nose gear though the bottom of my North Star several times as well. Planes like the Arrow I usually hold on to for years. I built the plane off of the plans that RCM gave me. The only outside mod I did was changing the nose around, different access hatch to the radio gear, curved wing tips and a curved “shark” fin on top of the engine pod. These changes gave the plane a lot more of a refined look then the RCM prototype. They are also easy changes to make. Hopefully people like you seeing these small changes will win over some of the devout North Star fans that “originally” didn’t like the looks of the Arrow.

I would say that the assembly time of the Arrow is one half that of the North Star. I was able to construct and fly mine while the July issue of RCM was still on the shelves at stores. I would highly recommend building this plane.

For the equipment lay out the throttle servo is in the back of the engine pod, the rudder and elevon servos are in the 3rd bay back from the nose block, the RX is in the 2nd and the battery is in the 1st bay. With the fuel tank empty the plane balances on the rear CG with no lead, I personally wanted it to balance on the forward CG mark and it only took 3oz of lead shot to achieve that.

The Arrow fly’s similar to the North Star, with the same pitch trim considerations. I launch the Arrow into the water from a grassy shore I also bring the plane back on to the grass when it comes back. This is a lot easier then wading into a swamp filled with alligators. I also have a retrieval pole with a noose that snares the cleat on the nose; standard with all the seaplanes I build. I also have a RC boat with bubble rap taped to the nose to get the plane back if its in the middle of the pond. The Arrow I built doesn’t even have the hard points for landing gear, I wanted to have a pure Sea Plane with this bird.

If you can build a North Star you can easily build an Arrow.

SGG

PS I wonder if Laddie M or RCM have seen this thread???
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Old 07-11-2004, 06:18 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I was once one of those people that did'nt like the look of the arrow, but the changes you made to make the nose longer, higher and wider along with the shark like fin really makes a difference. Not to mention the great color scheme. I have noticed that you use some great colors on your planes. Are those Monokote or some other brand? As for the arrow I think I'm going to order the plans on Monday. Did it come with a list of what wood would be needed? Or do you maybe have a list of your own? And it looks like from past posts that you buy your wood from Balsa USA. Would you recommend me ordering from them for my Arrow? One last question is what engine did you use and what size prop are you running? I'm thinking about making a mod. to my northstar wing to be able to fit an 11x7 prop. Any one ever tried this with out changing motor position? Hope you don't mind if I copy some of your mods on my arrow. They just make it look great
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Old 07-11-2004, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Hi agan,

Its Monokote, I usually use metallic or pearl on my planes, just makes for a richer finish. The top is metallic plum, the bottom is metallic gold, the bars are chrome, and the stripes and v stab are metallic platinum. The Plane can take up to and over a 12” prop. I am using a K&B .65 Sportster swinging a 11 x 7 APC prop on Morgan 15%. It has a Great Planes adjustable mount, the cowl is mounted to the motor mount, the “60” sized K&B, GMS and Tower engines all have the same mounting pattern and out put shaft distance.

For balsa and thin gage ply I go to Balsa USA, the always send me good stuff.

Q Des Mat
1 1/32 x 12 x 48 Ply
10 3/32 x 6 x 36 Balsa
8 3/32 x 4 x 48 Balsa
1 3/8 x 4 x 48 Balsa
4 1/2 x 36 tri

That is what I ordered for the Arrow and I have some excess material left over. I used some of what I had on the balsa shelf all ready before I got the order.

I would carefully look over the plans before deciding on what you want to do, but I don’t have any problem with anyone using the mods. I am trying to figure out a way to post full size printable templates for the wing tip, nose and fin.

Good luck with your project

SGG
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Old 07-11-2004, 09:52 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

rcairplanenut,

Are you flying in Florida? You can't be talking about alligators in Colorado.

Bob
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Old 07-11-2004, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I live in Colorado half the year Florida the other half
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Old 07-13-2004, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

rcairplanenut:
I have built a few planes and I've made a few repairs in my day. I ordered the Arrow print and I'm sure that I can build it,but I've never ordered prints and just built a plane without step by step instruction. So I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few questions that you may think are stupid. 1st let me ask, How do you cut the ribs for the wing? cut out the prints or copy of the prints to be traced on the balsa would be my guess? 2nd is your truss built Arrow heavier or stonger then the bulkhead type that LM designed. I do like the way it looks alot better. Would be really cool witha colored transparent monokote. 3rd, Are your trusses balsa or basswood for strength? I looked at your consruction pics REAL close and it just looks so much stonger and probably much straighter. 4th how did you get your ailerons to tapper like that ? buy them that way or was it alot of sanding to get them that way? When I get my plans I'll have to take a close look and see what it's going to take to get mine like yours.
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Old 07-14-2004, 01:10 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I copied the ribs on a 8.5” x 11” copy machine, then cut them out, tack pined them to the balsa wood in an interlaced pattern, traced them with a pen, then used a #11 exacto to cut out the ribs, having the blade run right down the pen mark with a steady hand. After the ribs are removed from the sheet they are matched up by number, clamped and any imperfections are sanded smooth.

A sheeted truss structure can be tricky to build if you are not used to them. However something I would recommend that any one should do is build the fuse in a top and bottom half, split down the centerline as viewed from the side. This makes for a level plane ware you can align left to right directly over the top view on the plan. You can do this with either a truss or sheet and bulkhead. As you know from building the North Star, aligning the fuse in free space can be a real pain.

Earlier in the thread there is a picture of the nose being modified so the front of the nose intersects the centerline. The top is a straight line that starts at the point of the new nose tip to tangent to the curve on the top middle of the plane.

If you do want to take on the truss, the longerons ( length wise sticks) are maid from ¼”2 poplar on my plane, the ¼”2 stock that they sell at home depot will work great for that. The up rights and diagonals are maid from ¼”2 balsa. The bottom truss is the structural one. The top one is for looks and it is all balsa sticks.

I used 1/32” ply on the bottom for sheeting, I have found it works good for floatplane bottoms. The front bottom of the plane got one layer of 4 oz. cloth for general toughness

The weight for the sheeted truss and laddes method is probably the same. A sheeted truss makes for a tougher fuse then a pure sheet and is less susceptible to blowouts and shear crunching.

Are you going to be using removable wings or fixed ones?

The elevons are 3/8” balsa stock cut on a band saw from simple measurements from plans. The front is beveled to a wedge and the back is beveled to a tapered contour using a balsa plane maid by master airscrew

http://www.masterairscrew.com/GoCart...67&RootID=1057

The rib layout picture is from another plane but the idea is the same
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Old 07-14-2004, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I'm going with the fixed wing. I think I'm going to take on the trusses. What's the worst that could happen? I can't do it and have to start over? No big deal. Wood is cheap and I want to learn how to do it. I'm no rocket scientist or engineer but I do alot of construction and I have an idea of what works and what does'nt. So I think I'm going to try it. You said the longerons where 1/4 poplar from Home Depot. These are sold in lenghts of 3 or 4 feet right? and in widths from about 3/4" up to something like 5 or 6 inches wide. So I could probably buy a 6" wide piece and cut all the 1/4 x 1/4 longerons out of it on a table saw. I'll have to get one of those blades for shaping the elevons. I don't have a band saw to cut them but I'm sure my table saw will work just fine. As for the wing ribs , you did them just as I expected. I really enjoy building planes probably even a little more then flying them. This looks like it is going to be alot of fun. I'm waiting on the plans now. And I have a new heli to put together and dial in first before I start this plane so I might be ready by the time the plans arrive.
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Old 07-14-2004, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Home Depot sells 1/4"2 stock in the dowel area, no ripping is required, that is the easiest thing to do. If you want to put in the effort, ripping poplar stock with a finish blade is a good thing. You can get stock that’s over 9 feet long that way (look ma no splices), it saves money in the long run as well.

Im still figuring out the full size printable template thing
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:11 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

I don't know if you guys ever tried it, but after copying ribs, you can iron the pattern directly to the balsa sheet because the toner placed by the copy machine on the paper will transfer to the wood using an iron. The thing works because that is how toner is applied to paper, with heat. You may be able to save a couple of steps with this method.

Bob
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Here are the templates for the wing tips, top fin, and nose.
I am not sure how well the scaling will work when you print it off your printer.
The bace of the fin is 7” long
The total length of the nose mod is 13” long
The side and top nose profiles are in 2 parts separated by a sqigly line, make sure that aligns right.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

sounds like a good idea with the iron

Will that work with an HP ink jet copy/printer?
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:21 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: Northstar follow up : ARROW by Laddie Mikulasko !

Yeah, someone turned me onto it about 20 years ago. Works pretty good.

Bob
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