ellysbro

I thought that Dave lived in B.C., but your label says Alberta. Huh!

Oscar

Wayne22

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He does....I'm on vacation in BC, visiting the old gang....

Sorry for the confusion....

murrayr

Painting now finished

murrayr

some pics

ellysbro

Looks sharp!

Flown yet?

Oscar

Wayne22

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I found some winter reading material for you guys:

http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepWidgeon.html

Donairplane

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HI Guys,I have 1/4 scale plans for the Widgeon if some one is interested. Drawn by Gene Falada 10' wingspan, same size as G&P Sales. Robart makes landing gear also.PM me if you like. Thanks Don.

Goinstraightup

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Great thread!!! Amazing projects everyone. Nice job!

Jeff

ryanpilot

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Ever think about the RCS 1.4 gasser??? I have one and love it. 15lbs static thrust with a 16X10 and turns about 8500. The other nice thing about it is that it fits in narrow cowls very nicely.

braden

I am interested in some widgeon plans 1/4 is larger than I had in mind I would rather something that i could get by with twin 40's or close but I could always scale down I guess
send me a message at [email protected]

PeterC

Braden,
The plans for the 1/6 scale Widgeon by Robert Switzer would probably suit you, 80" span. I think a couple of schnerle 46's would pull it well. It's a lot of work though.
Peter

braden

any idea on where to find these planes the wing span sounds good everything else is workable

weedbryan

Hello ellysbro
My name is Bryan Weed and I work at Flying Models. I recently picked up the issue on the Widgeon from 1968 and me and a friend are working with your plans to build some more. I am considering a artical that would revisite the Widgeon. If you could please contact me at my email: [email protected] or by phone at 973-383-3355.

Bryan Weed
Associated editor
FM

ellysbro

We flew my 1/4 scale Widgeon at the 19th Annual London Bridge Classic float fly, at Lake Havasu City, AZ, over Labor day weekend, at the request of the Desert Hawks RC Club. It has never flown better.

ellysbro

On the RCS 1.4. Might be just the thing! Where can I find info on it? The Ryobi's are about 1.9 cubic inch (31cc), but not great powerhouses.

PeterC

I'm getting ready to mount the engines on my 1/5 scale Widgeon and I have a couple of conceerns. I'm going to be using a pair of OS 61 FS's mounted inverted and I am wondering about oil accumulation in the valve covers. I know oil is not a bad thing in the valve area but they will be the low point in the engine with no provision for drainage.
Does anyone have experience with inverted four strokes, is oil accumulation a problem and are the engines reliable mounted this way? Would on-board glow be a help for low speed operation when taxiing? Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks and a Merry Christmas to all! (Even if I am politically incorrect).
PS I hope to post some pictures over the Chrismas break.
Peter

Strykaas

Are you sure these cover are really tight and do not leak ?

PeterC

Yes, the covers are quite tight and oil leakage is not a concern. Glad to see you're still checking this thread.
Peter

ellysbro

Peter, I am not an engine expert, but my experience is as follows: (comments from out there welcome.)
1. Don't run any glow engine inverted, especially if in a twin engine aircraft, where absolutely reliable running of both is critical. This is one of the reasons I chose gas engines for my quarter scale. They like to run inverted. I did use two inverted Enya 60's in my 1/7 scale 1967 Widgeon, but these were 2-strokers. I don't remember much about that application. Put em on the side if you can.
2. Use OS type F glow plugs and on-board glow drivers. The problem seems to be mostly with idling, where the glow plug fire goes out due to gravity flooding from a too-rich mixture. In a four stroker, you only get one power stroke per two prop revolutions, so it is harder to keep the glow plug lit. In a big, draggy seaplane, you can carry a fairly high idle rpm, which helps. Also, use as high a nitromethane content as you can in the fuel.
3. Most friends say that fuel tank position is critical, and that it must be centered below the needle valve to prevent siphoning and rich idle mixture. Since the needle valve in a four stroker is usually high on the engine, it is low on the inverted engine. This makes for an awkwardly low tank position on some aircraft. (Another reason to use a gas engine, as the pump carburetor makes tank position less critical.)
4. I have not encountered any problem with oil filling the valve covers. It seems beneficial to me, for better valve lubrication. Some four strokers now route the crankcase oil blowby out from between the crankshaft bearings, and into the intake manifold. This seems like a good idea, as it burns the messy oil and lubes the valves and crankshaft bearings better.
5. I have often wished for a lube fitting in the valve covers, between crankshaft bearings, and in the valve timing cam gearcase, for my own certainty that those critical areas, not in the normal four stroker fuel path, get some positive lubrication.

PeterC

Hi Ellysbro. thanks for the comments and I am in agreement with you. Firstly, I was mistaken, mine is approx 1/6 scale, not 1/5 as mentioned earlier. This puts the wingspan at about 80" which is about as big as my transportation modes will allow. I was concerned about the inverted flooding as you mentioned but my experience is varied. I have had some engines (mostly 2 strokes) run better inverted than upright so I think it has a lot to do with the individual engines and set ups. The 61's are the older ones with the airbleed carbs so there may be a large fiddle factor here. If I can lean the idle mixture sufficiently flooding should not be a problem especially after some of the fuel is burned off. OS type F plugs are all I use in my 4 strokes and even in some 2 strokes where idle is critical and top end isn't. I usually only use 4 stroke fuel which is 15% nitro which is about right for an engine this size. The onboard glo drivers are an option I have thought about and will consider them if running without on board fire fails. I think my fuel tanks are fairly well located. The engines are inverted in the Widgeon cowl so the tops of the tanks are about even with the needle valves. I am also going to use muffler pressure to help things along. My real concern was oil accumulation in the valve covers but I have been assured that excess oil will be sucked up through the valves and that the surpluss of oil in the rocker area is actually benificial to the engine.
I guess I have my mind made up to mount them inverted, I just wanted to bounce the idea off some experienced people out there who may have used a similar set up. With those nice streamlined cowls it would be a shame to hang an ugly cylinder out the side and I don't want to change to the Lycoming set up now.
If it dosen't work I guess I'll have no one to blame but myself.
Merry Christmas,
Peter

Wayne22

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Hi Peter... I don't recall having any problems with running 4 strokes inverted but my preference is to mount them sideways. With a twin, I'd definitely recommend the onboard glow..

ellysbro

I was cleaning up for the Holidays, and found some pics of my 1967 Widgeon. As far as I know, this 1-3/4 in. to the ft. (about 1/7 scale)model was the first ever RC Scale model of a Grumman Widgeon. It was featured as a constuction article in the Sept. 1968 issue of Flying Models. Span was 70 in., weight 13 lb. power two Enya 60's.

ellysbro

Ialso found some pics of Al Franklin's prototype quarter scale Super Widgeon. Based on a Link-Lockheed conversion he saw in Achorage, Alaska.
Al's Widgeon is an awesome project! It is a quarter scale, museum quality model of a Super Widgeon, with horizontally opposed engines and retractable landing gear and wing tip floats. Al states:
“For quite some time, I had dreamed of building an R/C scale model of a Grumman Widgeon. Then, while I was in Anchorage, Alaska, I ran across a gorgeous Link/Lockheed conversion of the Widgeon. This was it!
When I got back home to Seattle, I immediately set about drawing plans and getting underway to make a copy of the Widgeon which inspired me.�
Al used Grumman factory drawings and the advice of several Boeing engineers in the design of his model.
Al’s Widgeon uses two OS Pegasus four cylinder, four stroke engines, each of 3.2 cubic inch displacement. He made his own plugs and molds for the fiberglass hull, nacelles and tip floats. He designed and built the built-up wing and tail. He built exact scale operating retracts, including the tail wheel, and also the tip float retract mechanisms. His workmanship is superb. The final model has panel lines and thousands of rivets, as well as a fully detailed interior. Al's Widgeon won best of show at the 1999 Puyallup, WA trade show. It also won first in Static at the London Bridge Classic float fly at Lake havasu.
Al's molds are used by G&P for their kit.

PeterC

Those are two fantastic looking projects Ellsbro. I would be interested in knowing how the Enya 60 powered version flew. Mine is larger at 80" and the weight should be slightly greater. Did you have lots of power or was it marginal? I am looking for a fairly realistic flight performance and don't care about doing loops and rolls.
Does anyone out there have any comments on the type of adhesive I should use to attach the nacells? They fully support the engines and are moulded fiberglass like a moulded fiberglass fuselage attaching to a wood skinned, fiberglassed wing? I was planning on using Pro Bond polyurethane glue. Any comments pro or con?
Peter

ellysbro

Peter,

My small Widgeon was overpowered and too heavy. I am not a very good pilot, and it was difficult for me to fly, as one needed to keep the airspeed up, or it would stall and spin. I like forgiving airplanes like the Piper Cub. Two .40's would have been plenty of power.

Keep it light and two 60's should be plenty of power for your 80 inch version..

I would recommend epoxy adhesive for attaching the nacelle moldings to the wing.