LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

I'm not liking my nyrod set up that goes from the nose of my airplane to the float rudder. It is not very responsive, and there is more "play" in the line, then I would like. I also think that it causes extra stress on my servo. So I was wondering if I could do a pull pull like system using fishing line that goes from the nose bracket to the end of the float. Do you think this would work well? Do you think that there might be slack in the lines due to the way I would set it up? I have included an very rough drawing of my intentions. I hope you can understand it.

Thanks,

LT-40

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

As long as you have a clear run between the two tiller arms AND the the wake of the floats won't hit either of the lines, it should work. One hint though...set the tillers up parallel to each other at neutral so that you will have equal throw left and right.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

Scratch that...

That set up would have the water rudder going the opposite direction from the air rudder..

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the quick reply. I now know what you mean when you say they would be going in oposite directions. Could I not just cross the lines to solve that problem?

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

One more thing, if I cant get this system to work, and I decide to toss the nyrod, how hard is it to control on the water without a rudder? I think there was someone who explained how to do it, but I cant find the link.

jmupilot

Have you tried this Nyrod setup in the water yet? My experience is that water being a lot more dense than air, and the fact that you cant move the floats in the water as easily as a rudder moves in the air, you wont really notice a little slop in the water rudder setup. If you are worried about flutter like a sloppy air rudder would give, you can forget that. The water rudder is so small it wont be effected but that. My water rudders are all Nyrod controlled and all have the slight slop of the Nyrod type control, But give great response in the water. The rudder should not hang down under the float but a very little bit either, and it should have a kick up feature to keep it from being torn off if you should accidently hit a floating twig in the water. Believe me a small twig at takeoff or landing speed will do lots of damage to anything hanging in the water.

Just my .02 worth,

Pete

jbflier

Yes, just cross the lines and it will be fine.............

cyclops2

You can also let them drag on anything that is smooth. Push-pull does not care about drag. It simply works with little design or maintenance.

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

Cool,
I tried using 10 lb fishing line but it stretches way too much. So I switched to a picture haning wire, and it works much better. I am still waiting to get a second steering arm so that I can complete the setup. So the lines should stay tight in each direction even though the lines are crossed, and angled a bit? I hope it works, and thanks for the help!

LT-40

Newc

In his article regarding construction and flying the "Miss Hangar One" - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424965 - Jim Young mentions a method of using Spectra line for light weight hinges. Here's a quote from his article "Spectra is similar to Kevlar, but stronger. I picked up a few feet of 90# BRAIDED line from a local kite shop. The guy had a short reel of line and sold me 10' for a buck. I could have gotten similar line from an archery shop, if I asked for "Fast Flight" serving line. The key here was to get a braided line."

I used it (got mine at an archery shop) in the manner described by Jim when I built my MHO, and I would think that braided archery string would be stretch free and just the right thing for your application.

cyclops2

I do not know how tight you are pulling the lines. I use 4# Monofilament on 3' planes with lines just snugged up. Loops are just as tight as rods.

Braided lines do not stretch.-------They may shrink a little in 0 or -40 degrees.

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

I use the braided stuff. I bought a whole spool of 50# test that is about the same weight as 6# monofilament nylon. It's a 100 year supply even if I start building more. The tradename is PowerPro. Make the knots, slide to adjust, then a little drop of thin CA and they'll NEVER untie. I have used this stuff on rudder and elevator linkages and it has lasted for YEARS...If you crash, it is so strong it breaks the servo horn .

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

I may have to try some of that braided line suff because I don't know how well the wire will do in water (possibly rust).

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

I have used bronze leader wire for PullPull cable. It works well and will not rust. It just does not go around corners.
Thank the Lord for the Fishin' department at WalMart.

damifino

60# Spyder Wire fishing line works great for me. Put a dab of CA on your knots because this stuff is slippery. It goes around corners perfectly and does not stretch. My plane has horns on the air rudder with a pull-pull set-up actuating dual water rudders. The rudders are retractable via a scale like set-up as well. I formed loops from .040 stainless steel welding rod to use in place of pulleys. It's very hard to see in the pics but it's there. 25 flights and numerous touch and goes with zero maintainance. Will do my Cub the same way.

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

That plane looks Amazing! Thanks for the rudder tips also, looks great!

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

Hey guys! I finally got my second steering arm so that I could complete my pull pull water rudder setup. It works great!!! I love this new system it is way better than nyrod. It puts less stress on servo, it is lighter, it is faster, it looks better, it is stronger, it is more precise, has a more wide rang of motion, is easier to adjust, requires less effort to set up, etc. Here is what I used: Ernst .40 water rudder, dubro and great planes steering arms, 5/32" landing gear wire, dubro clevises and pushrods, picture hanging wire (cheese wire), and lock tite. I used 4-40 threaded music wire to make 4 "hooks" to attach the wire and clevises, this way I can adjust the tightness and length of the wire. I then used lock tite to make sure that the clemises didn't loosen or unscrew. I have posed a few pics, sorry if they are blurry. I would recomend this setup, or a similar one, over nyrod anytime. I can't wait to try it in the water!

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

A couple more...

simhatus

Hi

like your set up for the water rudder, great idea but i think in practice you will have a lot of problems with it.

Any less than perfect landing the lines will probably break or become loose.

Ive in the main dispenced with water rudders because there more trouble than there worth if its very windy trying to taxi back to the bank is a bad idea anyway and if its not the air rudder used with the throttle works fine with a little practice.

Simon

cyclops2

Welcome to the World of " Push - Pull".

Also known as --Quick and Reliable.

damifino

With all due respect to Mr. SIMHATUS I must say that your water rudder will work just fine. As long as your rigging connections are sound you will have no problems. I have over 12 feet of Spyder Wire fishing line and 10 connection fittings on my Venture 60's dual retractable water rudders. No problems, no maintenance with at least 25 take off/landing cycles. Breezy days have not been a problem. Go for it and remember "Can't never did".

JAkridge

damifino..........Great Job on your plane, Lots a work there.

damifino

Thanks Mr. Krazy. All that 'work' was worth every minute.

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

Hey guys, I got to test my pull pull setup on the water a week ago. It works great. 100% better than the nyrod. I also have a much larger range of motion. Also the way this is rigged up maitnence should be very easy. I lock-tited the clevises to the threads so that they don't turn on their own, but can still be adjusted if you give them a good twist. So if the lines get a bit loose, I just unclip the clevis and give it a 1/2 turn. Simple! I love this float flying stuff!

LT-40

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

LT40: I'm glad your pullpull is working well onthe water rudders. Your hobby shop has Sullivan or DuBro "2-56 eyebolts" which will replace the eyebolts you made

I copped this photo from the Tower site.