silverwings

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I know there have been several build threads, but I would just like to share my experience modifying an already highly modified plane into a bush type float plane. I have an old Global Right Flyer 60 that I had previously clipped the wings, enlarged the ailerons, rudder, and elevator, fabricated a cowl and turned into a tail dragger. I purchased some floats from Seaplane and am in the process of installing them on this plane. I will probably keep this one strictly on floats since I have been hooked on float flying since I went to a float fly last October with my Ultra Stick 60 on floats. I burned a half a gallon of 4-stroke fuel in my Saito 100 on Saturday and had a ball. Now I am putting floats on everything I can in preparation for their spring float fly in April. Here are some pictures I just took.
I modified the nose of the floats by adding some balsa and rounding them to make them look more like full size floats. The floats look fantastic as they are, I just thought the flat nose looked un-finished.

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Well, I am almost finished with covering the plane, just a few trim pieces. I just did the preliminary set up on the floats and they look about right to me. There is a positive angle of the wing to the floats. The floats are between 16 and 25% wing span, closer to 25%.
I am not sure about the sturdiness of the spreaders in keeping the floats parallel to the bottom of the fuselage. They are 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum. I don't know if I will need cross braces from the fuselage to the float mount to keep everything lined up. Does anyone have any suggestions? They seem very strudy and I believe they will resist twisting pretty well, but I do not have enough experience setting up floats to know for sure.
I am leaning toward a pull- pull system on the water rudder coming off the air rudder using fishing line with only one water rudder on the right float.
I have seen in other threads that some are using miniature pulleys from Prather and some are using eye bolts. I do not know if the mini pulleys are too large for this application or not. This is a .60 size trainer with 43" floats( extra 1" to tips to round them).
Is there anyone who knows about these pulleys and if they are worth the expense?
Any and all suggestions are appreciated.
Will post pics of fiberglassing as it is done.
silverwings
sorry, I don't have a catchy signature.

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

here are the pics

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Man, it looks great! Very sleek profile! [sm=thumbup.gif]

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Well, I started fiberglassing my floats today. I am using wbpu and .6 oz cloth. I was wondering if I could use Z-poxy finishing resin for the second coat or am I locked into using the wbpu all the way? If anyone has any suggestions, I would gladly appreciate them.
The glass is laying down great and it is going very quickly with the wbpu. I should have some more pics tonight or tomorrow showing the progress on covering the floats.
I am integrating the spreader bars into the floats to keep them set at the proper alignment just in case I ever want to fly it off grass, again.

Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

I found the info I was looking for. I Googled for fiberglassing floats and found a post by Seaplane about finishing with finishing resin and talcum(baby) powder.
I have put the second heavy coat of wbpu and will sand it tomorrow and apply the coat of finishing resin and talcum powder. Then, I guess I will be just about ready for color.
I was thinking about some polyurethane epoxy that I have access to. It is a two-part epoxy hi-solids polyurethane. I believe this will be very water and fuel proof. I do not think it will take very much to cover these floats since they are already mostly white from the wbpu.
I was not able to work on the floats very much tonight as I was late getting away from work and had to deliver some things to my son's house. Naturally, I had to play with the grandson for a while( he is Papa's co-pilot).
Will get those pics very soon.

Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Hey, everyone, I did not fall off the edge of the earth. Work had me too busy last week to work on my bush plane. Now, I have finished the rudder covering, began installing radio gear in fuse. The floats are all primed and waiting final sanding before color. I am planning to use white Rustoleum with some metallic blue Rustoleum for accent color to match the colors on the fuse and wing. I think I may add a coat of finishing resin over the paint after it cures if I have time. I am trying to get ready for a float fly in San Antonio on April 20-22, so I may just have time for the color. I need to test fly it off grass before installing floats to make sure everything is OK, then off come the wheels for good. I will post some pics tonight when I get home.
Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Well, here are the pics I promised. Just got the first of the color on the floats. Also pics of the plane. I had to cut the bottom of the rudder to get the horizontal stabilizer out after the crash to replace. I had to get everything almost completely covered before I could finish the rudder. That is finally done and covered. The only covering I need to finish is some trim on top of the wing. It will be metallic blue tribal flames similar to what is on the tailfeathers. I am hoping to be able to test fly it off grass this weekend.
Rick

LT-40

My Feedback: (2)

Wow you did a great job on the wbpu fiberglassing! You should see mine, they look like crap compared to yours. Mine turned out all bumpy for some reason. Have any Tips?

LT-40

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

LT-40
Thanks, but there are several flaws if you look closely, but I am running short on time. I am trying to get ready for a float fly in a week so I needed to get color on this week to allow it to cure in time.
All I did was apply the fiberglass cloth to the floats dry with the weave 45 degrees to the length of the float. Then I painted on the wbpu with a 1" nylon brush keeping enough wbpu to keep everything wet, but not running everywhere. If a wrinkle appeared, I just worked it with the brush until it came out. I used Minwax water base polycrylic clear satin because I had it from another project I just finished. I used Midwest 0.6 oz cloth for the whole float and then applied a second layer of 0.75 oz cloth from the step forward on the bottom only. I then applied 2 heavy coats of wbpu to everything with a final coat of Zap finishing resin mixed with talcum powder for strength. I sanded everything between all coats. That's my least favorite part of everything.
Was your wbpu fresh and well mixed? I noticed once when I was stirring mine, there was a large piece like the film you get on a can of paint that has sat for a long time, but this was off the botton. I stirred it for about another 5 minutes to get is smooth and even.
Other than that I don't know what to tell you. This was my first time to fiberglass something.
I have another set of foam floats that I just covered with Ultracoat right over the foam and have had no problem. As a matter of fact, they said in their instructions that their float did not even need to be finished, but I did not want those blue things hanging under my Ultra Stick 60.
I hope You get yours fixed and flying real soon. Flying off water is a great thrill and I look forward to these float flys every time.
We have a lake( old gravel pit converted for recreational purposes ) here that I have flown off of a few times, but there is a lot of other activity and I worry my plane may get hit by a boat or jet ski.

Happy flying and keep in touch.
Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Here are some pics of the plane on wheels. I hope to maiden her tomorrow and the wheels are off for good.

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Well, I test flew the plane off grass last Friday and it was just as I remembered it flying. I then went home, put it on floats and checked where the balance was. It appeared to be perfect. I loaded up and away I went for a weekend of float flying.
Saturday morning did not start off very well. On the first flight, it would not get on step or rotate for take off. I tried several times and finally brought it in and checked it out. We found that the wing incidence was not enough to allow the plane to get on step. I added a 1/8" spacer between the front landing gear and fuselage. This helped to get it on step and running along the water as pretty as a picture. I gave some up elevator and it lifted off the water only to nose back in quickly. Retrieved and dried the engine out and tried again with the same results. I was releasing pressure on the elevator too soon and the plane was seeking water, again. The next time, I had to take the switch apart and clean out the water. When I finally got it out again, I held in up elevator longer, but it only made the situation worse. I tried to maintain enough control to get the plane level and attempt a safe landing. This was all in vain as it landed on its back with all the grace of an elephant doing a swan dive. Although it was water logged, there was very little damage structurally. The floats were misaligned and there was water in the wing.
I opened up one wing tip to drain out the water and we ran the engine to burn out any water that may have been in the crankcase.
I got the landing gear straighened yesterday and moved the floats forward where the step was directly under the CG. This did two things. 1) It moved the CG forward just enough to allow the plane to balance slightly nose down at 4 1/4" back from the leading edge.
I will patch the holes in the floats and repaint them.
I am also looking to get a new wing for this plane. It will be a foam core, balsa sheeted wing. I found out that Wing Mfg. no longer makes wing cores except for their own kits. I contacted Dynamic Balsa and Eureka Models about foam wing cores and I am waiting on a reply from them.
I will post more pics tomorrow.

Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Well, the water test was not good. First time, it would not even get up on step, just a boat. I installed a 1/8" shim between the fuselage and front float mount. This helped greatly. It got on step and rotated at speed, but nosed back into the water. I was not sure at the time what happened. Dried it out and tried again and paid attention to what I was doing. When I gave up elevator to rotate, I let off too soon and, again it nosed in. Had to dry out the switch as two dunkings got water in it.
Switch dry, everything checked out, so off to try again. Well, it came up, but then the circus was on. It was a wild ride for about 20 -30 seconds until it enede up on its back in the lake. We determined there were 2 problems. 1) the CG was too far back and 1) the step was too far back.
I did not try to correct this at the float fly since the wing was full of water and needed to dry out.
When I got home, I straightened out the floats and moved them forward. This corrected both the problems. Now, all I have to do is patch the places where it cracked the finish and patch the holes from moving the landing gear mounts and try again.
I will also be getting a foam core wing made to the original dimensions since the plane with floats is quite heavy. It was pretty porky before due to a previous run-in with a fence. I will probably also install a .75 Magnum to add some more hp in front. I think this will be the ticket with the added wing area and extra hp up front.
Will keep updated with more pics.
Sorry, I did not get pics after the crash.
The first three pics are of a GIANT Seamaster. It is enlarged from a Seamaster 120 to approximately 12 foot wingspan. It flew majestically. It was a beauty to behold in flight. I wish I had had a video camera to capture it in flight.
Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

Hey, guys, I would like some advice. I am thinking of taking all the dihedral out of the new wing to make it straight. Is this a mistake or can I get away with it? It will be easier to make a dihedral brace for a straight wing. I don't think it needs the dihedral for stability with the floats hanging down underneath the plane.
What do you guys think?
I am also thinking about installing struts to help stabilize the wing and give it some support. It will also make it look more like a bush plane.
Rick

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

I know it has been a while since I have done anything, but I just got my wing cores and I should have my wood next week. It has been hectic at work, so I have not had a lot of time to build. I started my Ultra Stick 60 assembly. I am installing the tail servos in the back of the plane, adding a second landing gear block behind the wing and installing a remote glow on this one. Of course, it will have quad flaps for crow function. That is amazing with floats(or without, also). I really enjoy using the crow function, it is neat to see what the plane is capable of. I hope to have some more progress on the bush plane real soon.
I still do not know if I should take out all the dihedral or not. I know someone out there has opinions on this. Any input will be greatly appreciated.
Rick

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

Taking the dihedral out will make the airplane a little better at aerobatics. Rolls, loops and inverted flight will be smoother and easier and the rudder will not cause the airplane to roll as much. You will still have plenty of stability in normal flight because of the pendulum effect of the floats.

Speaking of the floats, they look huge. I don't know what size yours are, but I have a Right Flyer 60 (converted to a twin) on 35" floats and it works very well on the water and in the air.

Jim

silverwings

My Feedback: (21)

jrf
Thanks for the input. That is what I was thinking since the Ultra Sticks and other planes like that have no dihedral.

About the floats, they are according to the formula of 75% fuselage length, which made them 41" if I remember correctly. I purchased them from Seaplane and they are the ones he uses for scale and not the slimline he makes. Yes, the do look very large for the plane, but they float it great. I just received my balsa order to work on the new wings, so I hope to have an update soon.

That is a great looking plane. I was thinking about converting mine to a twin, also, but I think I will stay with the single engine for now. I may convert it later, though. What engines do you have on it? Did you change the trim scheme or is it original. If it is original, it looks like the Hobbico trainer, but I believe the two planes are exactly the same. They look the same except for the trim design.

Rick

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

You are right, I had a senior moment. I have a Right Flyer 60, but that one is a Hobbistar 60, and they are the same. I originally had OS 40 LA's on it, but I changed to a pair of old OS 40 FP's that run a heck of a lot better.

With floats, wide is good. Slimline floats track like they are on rails but they are hard to turn on the water.

Jim