tacx

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Hi All,

I have a question about flying off water. I am a newbie and have been flying my Apprentice with an Instructor. I have a cottage on a lake in upper Michigan and would love to have a plane that I could fly off the water, when I get more experience under my belt. First of all is flying off water harder, easier, or the same as normal flying. Also I would like to know which plane for a newbie would be a good one for this?

Thanks

MinnFlyer

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Flying from water is not for newbies. It's not much different from regular flying, except that the floats have added a lot more weight and drag to the plane - Better are planes like the Seamaster or Neptune which is a flying hull. These types of planes fly much more like a "regular" plane.

However, takeoffs and landings are a lot more difficult, and a minor mistake can lead to a very wet airplane, engine and radio.

It is also a MUST that you have a boat. Even if you don't crash, it's very common that water spray can cause an engine failure and you need to go out and retreive the plane.

Chip_Mull

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This is why we waterproof the radio compartment.  Taleoffs and landings on water cause less damage to the airframe than runways.  It may flip or catch a float but seldom does it scratch or tear the covering.  If takeoffs and landings are a challenge then yes it is difficult but if you have a cottage on the lake, by all means get yourself a float plane and have some fun. 

It's just a hobby, enjoy it.

red head

  IF you can fly a taildragger ( correctly ) you shouldn't have much trouble.  Just remember , there are floats hanging down and that makes the plane fly a bit different ( heavy ) .    ENJOY   !!!   RED 

MinnFlyer

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One picture is worth a thousand words

Scubanero

On the other hand, you have a lot more leeway with take off and approach lines (depending on the size of your lake of course) and probably no issue with conflicting frequencies.  I put floats under my Goldberg Eagle for similar reasons and the only problem is when someone within earshot comes over to watch and parks their fishing boat under my flight area. 

42etus

My Feedback: (2)

I don't find flying off water any harder than flying off land, it's just different. On water you don't line up with a runway to land, you line up into the wind. Depending on your particular lake that may be hard or easy. A plane with floats will fly a little different than the same plane on wheels. The plane will be a little slower and react differently because of the added weight and drag of the floats. The c/g will be lower also and will have a pendulum effect on the plane. None of this makes the plane harder to fly, it's just different than with wheels. Once you're in the air you'll catch on quickly.
As someone else said, a method to get out to a stalled plane is mandatory. You can't (well at least I can't) just walk outon the waterto retrieve a dead plane. A small rubber raft works great.
Probably the biggest difference between float and land flying is that flying off water is a whole lot more fun!!
Paul

ic-racer

A lot depends on the plane and how good you are. I also have a cottage in upper MIchigan and only learned how to fly at my local field just so I could get a float plane. I spent one summer learning the basics on land and got a Modelfly Beaver on Floats for the lake. That plane builds and flies very nice. With the Beaver, I had no problem taking off and landing on the water without ever having done it before. That plane is so easy to fly, I would highly, highly recommend it to anyone learning float flying.

ORRO23

Take a look at the Taylor Craft Thread just below yours and you will see the plane that I am going to put on floats. Although this threadhas been going onfrom last year, the guys answering multiple questions have been very helpful for me to get all the info I need for getting on the water. It's nice they haven't mentionedmy repeatedquestions and just brough the thread alive agianwith thought.

I am an experience flyer but a bit novice on all the electric avenues. So I am trying toget that info buckeled down. I figure I only have one chance to get it right becuse there wont be ahobby shop in the woods when I go to the resort in July.Wish I had time to have a couple ready to go.

Good luck...

Rcpilot

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I'm an experienced flyer. 11yrs in this hobby. I fly everything from 40 size sporty planes, to 3D profiles to very large 50cc - 80cc gasoline powered aerobatic thoroughbreds. Not an expert. But plenty of experience.

Get yourself a sea plane as Minnflyer suggested. Floats are a pain in the backside IMHO. I've done it plenty of times with success, but never without a LOT of planning, rigging, work and even a bit of trial and error...... mostly error. They are tricky to set up and have success the first time. Floats have to be set up without any toe in or toe out and the airplane wing must be set with neutral or slightly positive incidence. Floats also add a LOT of weight outside the centerline of the plane, so flying can be very pitchy or sluggish.... depending on the plane and how it's set up.

Get a flying boat. There are very few kits available. The Sig makes a VERY nice sea plane. It's called a Sea Lane. It needs a basic .46 engine and is pretty easy to build.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDUC7&P=7

If you can find one, the Ace Sea Master used to come in a couple different sizes, the largest being 120 size. Unfortunately the Sea Master has been discontinued and kits are almost impossible to find. You can often find plans on Ebay, but then you're getting into a plans build where you would have to cut your own parts. Very involved process and not for the newbie. There is another website that sells plans. Again, you'll have to find a kit cutter or cut the parts yourself. The website is called uncle willies. Just google uncle willies and you will find several sea plane plans on his site.

The other option is an ARF. Great Planes makes an "amphibian" plane, but IMO it's too expensive and it's not really a TRUE amphibian. You have to set it up for water OR land, but not both. I'm not personally familiar with this plane, but I do not think it got many favorable reviews from real world pilots.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKEW6&P=7

If I was you, I'd build the Sig Sea Lane and put a good .46 engine on it. Thats going to be the easiest kit to build. It's very stable. It will fly great with power to spare on a .46 ball bearing engine.

MinnFlyer

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The Ace Seamaster is no longer available, but there is a better-built version of the same design called the "Neptune". This is probably the easiest seaplane on the market.

http://www.maxfordusa.com/lg-neptune-60-white.aspx

The GP Seawind that Rcpilot linked to above is a great flier, but it is NOT a good first seaplane. It can be very difficult on take offs and landings.

Rcpilot

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WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW! [X(]

I just decided to buy an ARF Neptune instead of building a kit!!! Thanks MinnFlyer. Saved that one to my favorites. [8D] [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

pnp77777

Just for grins, here is a video of an electric foamy I plan to build soon. Cheap, easy build. Free plans, or buy a kit. I downloaded the plans and had three sets printed at a blueprint shop for less than $12.00. Two sets of the plans never made it home. I showed the plans to some friends and never got the sets the were looking at back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AXePAd0baA

There are more video's of the Polaris at www.modelaero.com. The links are on the same page as the video.

pnp77777

If you really want to build a 40 size plane, the Polaris is a scaled down version of a plane called North Star. It is very nice, too. There are youtube's of it also.

"Google" it and you will find a lot of links. It is another possible future project for me.

Augie11

I hate to say it but I think some folks make float flying sound a lot more difficult than it really is. While it is true that it takes extra time to set up floats to be straight and true and impart the right amount of positive incidence to the wing (1.5-2.0 degrees), once that's done the flying part is pretty straightforward. As mentioned above, you always take off and land directly into the wind. So long as you do that, and attain flying speed before liftoff, the rest is easy. Yes, floats do change the way a plane flys/reacts but you get accustomed to that pretty quickly.

Single engine flying boats are somewhat more forgiving then say a Cub or a Beaver but stay away from multi engines until you have some experience!

Mustang Fever

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tacx


Get yourself a Neptune, and go do it. Most of my flying this year has been off of Lake Cadillac, as I can get down there early before the wind starts howling. Can't do that at the club field. I recommend a flying boat because they are less prone to flipping over, and the water handling is generally better than a float plane.

I'll try just to list the essentials:

1. The engine must be well broken in and properly tuned, high end and low end. The fuel system is the critical part: I use only Great Planes or Hayes tanks because they make it easy to get the plumbing bullet proof. I also take care to get the centerline of the tank on the same level as the spray bar in the carb. Sometimes this means modifying the bird from "upright" engine to "sideways".
2. The airplane must be sealed so water cannot get in. If water enters the receiver or the servos, you'll be in trouble.
3. Takeoffs are different because you have to do four things at once: a) hold up elevator until the bird tries to plane, then relax it to neutral so that it will get up on top of the water like a power boat b) throttle up smoothly and not too quickly c) keep the wings level with the ailerons so you don't dig a tip float d) use the rudder to stay into the wind or the waves. (If they're different, stay into the waves)
4. Landings are different in that the airplane needs to be flown right down to just above the water in a level attitude, and then the power comes off and you try to hold it off the water as long as possible without balooning it. Being directly into the wind on landing is not as critical as on takeoff, but just try to get the speed way down before it touches so it won't skip.

The picture shows how, after getting all the radio gear in, I installed a water proof shelf over the receiver and servos so that if some did get in, it would go harmlessly into the bottom of the hull. I also made a silicone gasket in the wing saddle area by putting thin plastic sheet on the wing and putting the silicone around the saddle. Finally, I used waterproof grease on the pushrod exits so that water couldn't get in there and then run down onto the servos.

My recovery boat is a life jacket, and I wear a bathing suit under my pants so I can strip down on the spot and go get it.

Last piece of advice: learn to keep your airplanes CLOSE in so you can see them well, and you don't have to go far if recovery is necessary. If you're going to let them get out a ways, make sure you have mucho altitude so you can glide back close in the event of a flameout.

rich6170

I have been flying off water all this summer. Just this past weekend I had a great Float fly in Gaylord Michigan with the club there. They know a lot about flying off water and we had a lot of tricky wind to deal with, However!!! It is not as hard as these guys put it up to be. I flew a SIG Lt-40 equiped with SIG ARF 40 size floats and the plane handles very well on the water and up in the air. Dealing with tricky winds has made for some exciting takeoffs and landings (and a few flips). Even when this plane is resting comfortably upside down in the water it will not take on much and if your reciever is in a small plastic bag that is enough to protect it. The second plane is a Tower Hobbies PT-40 and a set of Hanger9 arf floats. The only problem with them is they will break loose on a hard landing if not screwed on with brass hump straps into a hardwood mount. The third plane I tried was a Tower hobbies Kaos! I just screwed the floats on and removed the water rudder and tossed it in. A verry sucessfull flight in very unpredictable winds. It is all about the Excitement!! Don't let any of these Technogeeks scare anyone into missing the thrill of the flight off water!!!

2daice

I have been flying off the water for 12 years a sig cadet 46 on floatsand a 46 size seamaster. The cadet with a os46 and floats works very nice. Build a small light weight water tight box with a plexyglass top for all your controls. It flies well, jumps out of the water on take off and lands smooth. If the waves are more than 3" you stand a good chance of catching the float tips when the plane settles in and will flip it on its back before you think oops. The seamaster is better in rough water but may catch a wing pontoon on a waveand spin it around quickly. My ruleis when the big boats come out I call it quits, their wakes are to big.With the seamaster on take off you have to use aileron control to keep the wings level as well as rudder to stear. With any water craft make sure you add lube oil after you are done with the days flying or your wngine will last only one season. A small cheep rc electric boat with a hook can bring your plane in close. its fun go for it.