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Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Old 11-29-2009, 09:07 AM
  #51  
homeboy61
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

DONT DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 11-29-2009, 10:38 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Thank you all for the responses which have ranged seemingly from "go for it" to "idiots like you don't deserve to be in our hobby." To all, I promise to take video of the takeoff, climbout,flight, and landingand share it good, bad, or ugly.

Now, for the update: Ispent Friday fine-tuning *everything*. I made sure all the control surfaces were at neutral positions (none of them originally were), re-checked (visually) the angle of incidence, and re-checked the step location and CG. All seemed OK, so it was time for engine start. Drum roll ....... the engine refused to start. Repeatedly is an understatement. After hours of fiddling, I developed two theories. 1. The engine floods easily. 2. The instructions on how to start it are all wrong. So, with a clear engine, only 1 turn of prime instead of 2, and 1/2 throttle instead of thottle at idle, I can now reliably get the engine to start. (It is a brand new, not-yet-broke-in engine.)

With no wing and only plastic coveringin place of the wing, we put the plane in the water and ... tada .... Ihad a nice but odd looking radio controlled boat. Iburned a tank of gas slowly doing maneuvers, and working up to simulated takeoff runs. Two issues were immediate Ihad inadequate right rudder in the water (minor adjustment) and a potential big problem of water spray from the floats into the prop at high power settings. Using full up elevator and very gradual power applicationhelped, and perhaps the problem will be less when the wing is attached and providing lift. And maybe Ineed to adjust so I can achieve more up elevator. Anyway, that was it for the day as it was getting dark.

The next day, I awoke to winds gusting to 40mph, so flying or even boating was definitely out. Instead of flying, Iran another tankful of gas through the plane while it was in the shop, changing speeds, and trying to adjust the mixture. I'm not sure why, but at very high power settingsI get bubbles in both fuel lines from the muffler and into the engine. No bubbles at 1/2 throttle or less. Precise tuning at high power seems elusive maybe because of these fuel bubbles? And, after 1 tank of gas Ihad about 30 drips of oil down the right side of the aircraft. I did lean it out partway through the tank which seemed to lessen, but not eliminate, the problem.

As a result of the winds, we lost all power at the ranch and chose to return home; therefore, Idid not make any takeoff attempts this trip. At a minimum Iwill obtain the simulator(s) recommended and get some practice in before returning, which will be within the next couple of weeks. btw, the ranch is 90 acres, in a remote and isolated location at 3,000' elevation, so from a safety perspective mychances of accidentally hitting a deer are much higher than a person. But they're much faster of course.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:51 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

I learned how to fly without an instructor on my own and I crashed many many..many airplanes before I fully got the fundamentals down...bust go try it for yourslef and see, just be safe! i'd be like driving a car with no experience on the highway...sounds like fun!
Old 11-29-2009, 11:20 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

I've seen people learn to fly on their own, so it's possible, simulator will help. Biggest problem I've seen with self learners is that you get 10 sec of flight time and spend a week repairing the damage, so learning is a slow process as "building time" is slow at 10 sec a pop. get yourself 3 or 4 more airplanes so you'll always have 1 available.
Good luck and can't wait to see the video.........
Old 11-29-2009, 11:23 AM
  #55  
edstrek
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Wow Some good stuf listed here: My 2 cents get a small foamy the get the basics of rc flight practice a bit. A simulator will also help with control and landing and flair. surly have a boat or some way to retreive the aircraft if you make it off the water. I seriously do not believe that you will make it back to the water, Wish you the best. Please post the results.
Old 11-29-2009, 12:01 PM
  #56  
colmo-RCU
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Get some lubricant-free condoms and wrap your batttery and receiver in them. Tie a rubber band around the cables that come out so you have all the waerproofing possible.

The oil is supposed to be there on the fuselage, your engine passes oil with the fuel just as any 2 stroke weed cutter but at 1 to 5 oil ratio instead of 1 to 30 as in gas engines. After flying use isopropyl alcohol or window cleaner to remove all that. Stop taxiing (is it said like that in water) without the wing, it is not representative of the performance with the wing on, and the wing will provide lift and also stability and roll control. Also, if you turn too hard and tip over, the wingtip will float and not let the fuse get immersed.

If you get to make a takeoff, let the plane get all the speed it can, and only then give it a fast and small yank up to make both foats brake free of the surface tension at the same time. If not, you might end up with half the plane fying and the other half stuck like cement to the water, specially if the pond is very calm. that will make it cartwheel and maybe brake the fuse or end up belly up.

Post videos, plz
Old 11-29-2009, 12:35 PM
  #57  
gohsthb
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

About your air bubbles. On my airplanes running at full throttle there are some air bubbles in my lines. Generally they are very small and go away like you said at about half throttle. Also make sure that your tank is wrapped in foam rubber. Don't pack it in really tight you want the foam to absorb the vibrations. If the air bubbles are large check that you don't have a leak in one of the fuel lines. These are sometimes found near the fuel tank where the tubing gets pushed over the metal tube from inside. The sharp edge can puncture the fuel tubing. Also remember that there is a connection insode the tank for the clunk tube also. I've seen many people frustrated by a hole in a fuel line and find that it was inside the tank at that point. With the size of your ranch a good investment might be a beeper system for your airplane. I don't have a link but it should be easy to find. Basically the beeper attaches to an output on the receiver it. If your plane gets away and crashes off somewhere you can't see it then you turn off your radio and the beeper will start beeping. Having searched for many airplanes I can tell you where you think it went down is usually wrong and if the weeds are tall you can miss it by 10 feet and never know it. Again good luck, and happy flying.

Old 11-29-2009, 12:49 PM
  #58  
JoeyCoates
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Going to be difficult on your own, but a simulator and a lot of time on it will help. It does not have the pucker factor that your own aircraft has however, and landing the real aircraft is more difficult.

One area that you may have issues with is getting the aircraft down in the space you have available. Every full size aircraft you have ever flown (exept for gliders or powered gliders if you have flown them) has had a higher sink rate then the Alpha. having the floats on it will help you due to the weight and drag, but it has no flaps and getting a steep enough approach without dropping the nose and trading altittude for airspeed will be tough. These aircraft have a very light wing loading compared to what you are used to, they can be difficult to get down. You might have the best luck bringing it down low over the water downwind and doing a lower altittude turn to final so you do not have to bleed off the altittude on approach.

You will start to understand once you have the simulator. It is hard enough to fly out of restricted areas on wheels, doing it on floats is tough. I tried it once at our farm in East Texas off of a similar sized pond (having flown for nearly 20 years at that time) and ended up ripping the wing off of a trainer when I had passed V1 and it was painfully obvious that she wasn't going to clear. I chopped the throttle and ran it under a hanging branch to scrubb speed rather then hit the damn at a rather high velocity.

It can be done, but it will not be easy. Hate to say that, but that is just the way it is.
Old 11-29-2009, 01:36 PM
  #59  
jakester007
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

wait until your pond freezes,so that their will be less chance of your plane sinking,you will be able to recover all the loose parts better ha ha ha,get someone to teach you,that way you will not get discouraged with the hobby..................................
Old 11-29-2009, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Cleared:

Cleared:

I taught myself to fly. I bought a HobbyZone Aerobird and proceeded to crash it about 4-5 time before I became basically proficient. You have the difficulty amped WAY UP. Flying off of water is more difficult. Plus, it sounds like your engine may not be dialed in yet. Seems like a deadstick waiting to happen. Plus, if you can't get it back down on the floats and keep in on the floats, there's a good chance you'll flood your fuselage and fry your radio equipment.

I understand that getting instruction can be inconvenient. While I ultimately was successful learning on my own, I started with the most basic of equipment that was easy and low-cost to fix after crashes. It's highly likely that you will damage, if not total, your Alpha in your learning process. If you're prepared to shell out the cash for what will likely be repeated tries until you become basically proficient, that's your call. I do wish you luck.

After four years in the hobby and A LOT of flying, I am now one of my club's instructors. Given your situation, I do have one important recommendation for you. Have an experienced pilot fly your alpha to be sure it's set-up correctly and running reliably. It needs to have a reliably running engine, it needs to be trimmed as it will behave differently with floats and the CG should be double checked. This should be done for your safety and the safety of any bystanders. Unless that plane is dialed in, your first flight may be very brief and end badly.
Old 11-29-2009, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

wait till the pond freezes so that their will be less chance of your plane sinking when it hits you will also be able to recover all the loose parts better on ice ha ha ha..........get someone to teach you how to fly ive seen so many people get discouraged and get out of the hobby because they wanted to learn on their own and didnt want to invest the time money and crashes that comes with learning to fly on your own hope you make the right choice so you will be able too enjoy this great hobby good luck...................................
Old 11-29-2009, 02:40 PM
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The Bluehead
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Another airline pilot here...thought I could do it too...got thousands of hours and lots of experience, but that gives you alot of knowlege on what happens and what is going on when you fly. I flew briefly in the early 90's on my brothers PT-40, and decided to get back into it ten years later, so I built my trainer, PT-60 (had to be bigger than by lil' bro's plane you know) Did all that taxiing and balancing stuff, took it out at the farm and had a go at it. First flight was 13 seconds. I did get it on video, but won't post it out of humility and the #!*$ language spewed afterward. Upon lift off, I tried to turn out and the plane would hardly turn right. It did OK when I used a bit more rudder, and did good until I turned it back toward myself. Rolled it into the ground and cartwheeled enough to make an olympic gymnast proud. That whole flying at you thing kicked my butt. I remembered about it in principle, but failed miserably in the execution. Broke the tail off, but not much more damage. Repaired it and ended up going out to my lil' bro's place and had him re-teach me. Not a lot of hard core instruction, but good practical flying. It came back fast. DO GET HELP. It probobly won't take long as you already know how to fly. You just have to get your thumbs working correctly.

The aileron throws, which were at the mfg settings were not enough to execute a turn. Increased them and all is well. My PT-60 still lives strong today, and is my most common flyer. It has taught several to fly and it thrives on floats and skiis.

Good Luck, Will

P.S. Go Gators & Thank You Timmy!!!!
Old 11-29-2009, 03:22 PM
  #63  
rambler53
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...


ORIGINAL: 42etus

Have a boat available, you'll be needing it. Seriously. [:@] [sm=drowning.gif]
Paul
And a catch net....long handle in case the plane goes under. Wrap your receiver in a water proof bag, twice. Please post a video of your success.
Old 11-29-2009, 03:33 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Cleared

Obviously you are gonna do what you are gonna do. Several good previous posts as to recommendations. I especially agree (can not emphasize how strongly) with those recommending a lot of time on the simuilator and think that the SuperCub is a good choice for your first trainer, except that it does not have ailerons. It is 3 channel. but it is easy to repair I am told.

You CAN do this on your own if you are prepared to crash & rebuild and iterate that process. Especially if you are determined and your head is hard enough. Main issue is that real repair takes time and some skill, not like resetting the plane on the simulator.

Think safety first. I trust you are in remote area where chance of hitting something/someone is small. BUT going it alone it is NOT what I would recommend to most folks. Nevertheless, sounds like you are gonna do what you are gonna do. Perhaps you can find a good coach instead of a hands-on instructor.

Some personal history - I built model planes in the early-mid 50's literally before starting kindergarten & before I could read. First flying models were U-control on nylon line in mid-late 50's, larger stuff on wire from 1960. Navy carrier, control line stunt as a Jr. Lots of reading, then crashing and rebuilding. But learning all the while. Two single channel RC models in 63-64. Pushbutton transmitter - taught myself. No RC crashes if you don't count planes stuck in trees. Trick was getting plane trimmed and balanced before I flew it. Glide tests. Plane flew itself hands off. Was hard for me to screw that up.

Quit flying in 1965...cars and girls. BS in AeroSpaceEngineering 1971.

Back into hobby in 2000 with a 3 channel Cutie. BUT used a simulator first. After a LOT of stick time on the sim, I flew Cutie fine many times without instruction. Finally crashed. Pilot error on takeoff. My first multichannel RC crash. Restarted the old process - repair and fly again. So, it can be done. But I would not recommend the methodology. Repair skills are an absolute must. Especially without a coach.

I am now an instructor in my club for 8 years. Starting competing in pattern aerobatics couple years ago. I also own a ski lake and frequently fly off that. Float flying is a real blast but has wrinkles that definitely add to difficulty in taking off and other aspects to flying. If you have enough power and do things exactly right like not dragging/grabbing a single float or horsing it off too early without airspeed, you can take off on 1 acre pond. Trees add to the "interesting" factor. Now landing on a 1 acre pond will be VERY interesting unless it is totally unobstructed from trees. If it is unobstructed, it will just be plain old interesting.

Once you learn how to floatfly, go to a ski lake and take off from the jump ramp. THAT is a hoot for sure. Just avoid the buoys. Don't ask me how I know that....

Some suggestions for you when you go it alone - read all the how-to stuff you can, especially on float flying. Seaplanesupply.com has a bunch of stuff. buy good simulator and use it, buy small electric trainer like supercub first and fly hell out of it. And buy some foam glue from craft store for the supercub.

When you first fly your glow trainer, think hand launch or ground takeoff without floats first. Learn to take off and consistently land that sucker well. Be able to get it down on a defined spot - 1 acre pond ain't all that big. When the water gets warm - - then tackle float flying. (If combined air + water temp is 100F or more, ok to ski. Thus OK to fly). Have a rescue swimmer. Can't wait to see the video ! DEFINITELY take and post the video.

Oh, and Cleared - good luck - and have fun !!


Skitimberlake

Old 11-29-2009, 03:33 PM
  #65  
sailjunky
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

It is easy just remember just like the full scale aircraft pull back to go up and push forward to go down and if the planes cg is good and you can trim it for level flight then the landing is no problem at all.  I taught myself to fly these things and am also a full scale pilot with time ranging from a cessna 150 to a BBJ (737) So it can be done. My first rc aircraft was a world models low wing tail drager and i had over a hundred flights with that plane. It can be done its very easy and good luck you just have to keep your mind ahead of the plane..


Good Luck
Old 11-29-2009, 07:34 PM
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glasscock
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

You may want to add a few more rubber bands to the wing for your maiden flight! (Unless you only put one or two on just for photo shoot).
Old 11-29-2009, 08:10 PM
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

I taught myself, as I lived in a rural area and the closest field was 80 miles away. I learned on a glider that was powered by a pod mounted .049. I think it was a "Gentle Lady", slow and docile. I moved up to a Sig trainer soon after. I've watched guys fly off water... fun to watch but too much of a pain for me. There weren't any arfs or park flyers when I learned, but if I had it to over again, I'd get one of the foam park flyers and start with that. If you break a wing or any other part, it's quickly and easily replaced. The left-right thing can bite you if you've never flown RC before, and it took me a while not to dumbthumb it. This is where a sim will help you with that. My guess is, like most of us that were self taught, you'll probably have a few short flights. Don't get discouraged, you will catch on!
Old 11-29-2009, 10:35 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Most people anymore don't want to learn on a glider, but their are advantages to a plane with slow docile reactions..right up to that
LONG SLOW STALL RECOVERY! ouch....

But one real advantage to a glider without a motor is you really learn about smooth energy conservation flying techniques.. you learn to fly on momentum and the wing. I still think that is an under valued skill. I recall test flying a few MAJOR underpowered airplanes that had me shaking like a bomber pilot over fueled, and full load of bombs. But I think the glider flying helps teach that...

Then again I could be a lone voice in the woods on this ! hahahaha
Old 11-29-2009, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

does anyone read the thread at all.
He has the plane
he wants to fly off water
he is teaching himself
my god give advice on flying not what to fly or not to try it...

Damn so negative help dont hinder.. This is why people dont want to join clubs and the youngsters dont want to fly... Everyone is so negative...
Dude go try to fly your plane have fun... If you crash its a rc plane and can be fixed or replaced.....Enjoy the hobby... 
Old 11-29-2009, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

the best advise............

Remember this and cram it into your mind at all costs..............

STICK TO THE LOW WING!!!

STICK TO THE LOW WING!!!

STICK TO THE LOW WING!!!

STICK TO THE LOW WING!!!

STICK TO THE LOW WING!!!

Know it, live it, love it....Think STICK TO THE LOW WING!!! at all times of the day and night, especially while you are flying!!!!!

Next make sure the step on your floats in exactly even with the center of gravity on the wing. Use a string with a weight, and tape it to the CG to make sure for sure. Then make sure your floats are completely parallel to your horizontal stabilizer. These are common mistakes even the most seasoned veterans make on float planes. Very, very important or your plane won't rotate smoothly. If you have to pull up too much to get it off the water, YOU WILL run out of altitude, air speed, and ideas at a very bad time.

At least 12 rubber bands to hold the wing on....the loading will be higher with the floats.

Throw away the book on how to run your engine, they are never right except for break in procedures.
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:09 AM
  #72  
FILE IFR
 
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...


ORIGINAL: glasscock

You may want to add a few more rubber bands to the wing for your maiden flight! (Unless you only put one or two on just for photo shoot).
Glass, Good eye ! [8D]
Old 11-30-2009, 12:10 AM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...


ORIGINAL: sailjunky

does anyone read the thread at all.
He has the plane
he wants to fly off water
he is teaching himself
my god give advice on flying not what to fly or not to try it...

Damn so negative help dont hinder.. This is why people dont want to join clubs and the youngsters dont want to fly... Everyone is so negative...
Dude go try to fly your plane have fun... If you crash its a rc plane and can be fixed or replaced.....Enjoy the hobby...
Yep, I'm sure most read the post.

Negative comments, negative help...Most with experience will call those comments as "just being real".

Some people egg on just to see the misery...

For me, the chance of success is worse than winning the Lottery with one exception in that you can always buy more tickets to improve your odds albeit a very small improvement.

This goes against everything the AMA stands for. As an AMA member I would like to protect this hobby.

If someone gets hurt or significant property damage even if only taking out a power line. What is the outcome of the unwanted publicity? What laws will be written to make it tougher to fly toy planes...? Cause and Effect doesn't just apply to physics...

The only good outcome is one successfull R/C flight that some full scale pilot can save claim to bragging rights. Short answer, to feed an ego just to say he did it, but ignores the risk and the potential outcome...

Am I being negative, others can be the judge of that. I believe I'm being real, like others that post similar thoughts.

I am assuming that the original poster isn't an AMA member; and ifthis person is...my recommendation to the AMA would be to pull their membership as to not risk those that are willing to fly within the AMA Safety Code.

Like my post or not, I'm not interested in your thoughts about my recommendations and/or concernscoming across as negitive to you...

Now the poster has the right to do as they wish. It only takes one qualified pilot on a buddy box to make this attempt safe...Worst Case Scenario is Flying RC gets to be no fun due to laws preventing this action.

LLD
Old 11-30-2009, 12:47 AM
  #74  
sailjunky
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Obviously you did not read his post... He is out in the middle of nowhere. What is he going to hurt except for maybe making a big splash in a pond if he crashes.. Oh well as for asking the ama to revoke someone ama card.... DUMB its people like you that make it no fun for people who love this sport but i wont sit here and bag on ya man cause i dont know you but i know the type.. The sixty something year old who knows everything.. Am i close.. Thought so.... This is meant for fun relaxing with your friends... Pushing the envelope of what you can do..  Flying is fun and should always be fun... If you are not having fun stop flying... And you can post what ya want but  deep down you know im right your just to grumpy to see it...
Old 11-30-2009, 12:51 AM
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Default RE: Please help me do the unthinkable ...

Keep us posted. Would like to know what happens. Please Post pictures of plane after you try it.

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