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chistech

Started on the wings today. Didn't get any pictures today but will tomorrow. I am putting in flaps even though the BT plans don't call for them. While I was working the guy who flew them in AK (pictured in an earlier post) came by my buddy's workshop to chat. He told me how they always took off with full flap and even the hard time they would have to get it off when they were carrying 350# depth charges. He talked of a technique to circle to the left until the centrifugal force would put the right float back into the water. He said you would then hit the right rudder pedal hard and quick and it would force the right float back out of the water. Then he said once it came out you should have been just about at the top speed you would get to so he would pull back hard so the tail of the main float would bounce the plane out of the water. Hopefully you would stay airborne enough to keep gaining speed to stay aloft. If it hit the water again he said you would have to start all over again. Really something being able to talk to someone who really flew these things. He also fully explained the step by step procedure they went through when being picked up at sea by the destroyer or SP tender.
Got the port wing frame all built and the top sheeted. Will flip it over tomorrow and cut in the hard wood blocks for the tip floats and make the servo mounts for both the flaps and ailerons. The wings go together pretty fast but the way BT has designed some things to scale makes it a little harder going. I'm want a flyer more than a scale plane but have decided to build mostly to style.

scale only 4 me

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT_PClBc8vE

scale dail

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Great Info! And fast progress!

chistech

Got some pictures taken. I have decided to put the flaps in. I made ply doubler ribs for the locations of the hardwood mounts for the blind nuts to mount the tip floats. My plans came from a guy on Ebay and I have found a problem with them that doesn't make sense to me. I found the both wings are on the same page of plans but are of different lengths (just slightly), also, when building the right wing on top of the plans I found that after I had pinned down the 1/4" spar and started to build the wing that the plans were crooked. The spar built directly over the plan was not straight. I had to unpin the spar, put a straight edge along the spar and pin it back down. It was off by just over a 1/16" but still noticeable. Putting in the flaps added a lot more work doing the way I did but it will be worth it. I put separate pieces of 1/4 between the ribs on the trailing edge side and put 3/8" pieces between the ribs on the flap side. I know some people just cut the wing away, put a piece on the trailing edge, cut off enough on the flap and put a piece of stock on the flap leading edge. I didn't do it that way and probably will next time. My buddy makes a hinge install tool by gluing a piece of sandpaper on a too wide tongue depressor stick. Using this like a file it makes the groove just deep enough for the Dubro flat pinned hinge. I used this tool across both the trailing and leading edges for the flap right under where the top sheeting will go so the hinges grooves would be at the proper location right at the top of the flap. After assembling the wing and sheeting the top, I cut the flap off right between the stock at flap line. I left the thickness of a razor saw between the sheeting at the flap line so it was easier to cut off the flap. The ailerons on this plane use washout and are a little of a pain to make as the sheeting is just 1/16 and the aileron is easy to warp when gluing. I used a strip of 1/64 ply at the trailing edge of the flap and ailerons where the sheeting meets to stiffen it up. I just located a package of Robart "horny hinges" which will work perfect for this plane with the way the ailerons are hinged. There is not a lot of room in the wings for servos and I will be using Hitec HS-85s for flaps and ailerons.

chistech

More pics of the wings. Need to make the right aileron and then will set up the outer panels for the proper dihedral and build the center section. I have a couple of bomb drop mechanisms that I think I'm going to put on each wing. Will add a little fun to the pond.

scale only 4 me

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I used Robart Point hinges for the flaps but they are on the bottom edge

I've used this aileron set up in the wings for many planes, maybe this will give you an Idea how you want to mount yours

chistech

Yes. That is how I'm going to make my flap and aileron servo hatches too. I just looked at the Hitec chart and I am calling the HS tomorrow and have him order me the HS-225 which is just a little bigger than the HS-85 but has 4 mounting screws and a lot more torque. Cheaper too! Servos won't be in till next week though. Will still work on the center section and put the wing on with no bottom sheeting. I will be able to start working on the center float mount too.

scale only 4 me

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What's the deal on the 1/4 ribs near the wing tips & ailerons? Doesn't look like you installed those?

chistech

You actually build the aileron flat on the board separately from the wing. You have to curl the bottom of the aileron tip up for the washout. It is a little different and I guess it's somewhat of the "British" way of building. If you look closely you will see that the grain on the bottom sheeting of the aileron is going two different ways. You use two pieces of sheeting with the piece at the tip having the grain running parallel to the fuse. I guess this is so you can bend the bottom of the aileron tip up easily and it doesn't try and twist the whole aileron. Look closely at the first picture in post 55. It's hard to see but the grains changes direction right at the third quarter rib out. I will try and get a better picture.

scale only 4 me

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Looks good, I doubt you really need that washout, but it never hurts

I'm looking forward to seeing how you mount the tip floats too

p.s.
I used all standard servos in mine except a high torque for the Elevator I used a HS 605,, never had any servo problems
keep in mind, mine weighs nearly 14 lbs too,,,
Not like you're going to do any high pressure aerobatics

chistech

Finished up the right aileron and framed up the center section. You can see the strip of 1/64 ply along the edge of the aileron to stiffen the edge. Because I'm mounting the floats on this bird I doubled the two ribs just outside of the center rib. I will be able to add some ply here later for the center float mount. Finished off the inboard section of flaps and cut them off the center section. Will start sheeting tomorrow. The tip floats get mounted with a 6/32 nylon screw into the blind nut in the wing blocks. I will be using a small piece of aluminum angle to make the 90 from the streamlined tubing to the wing mount.

JL1

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Just a point of interest about the ailerons. I think I recall reading that the full size bird actually used "spoilerons" instead of ailerons. Does anybody know if that is correct ?

chistech

Yes, the Kingfisher would drop both the flap and ailerons together. The Aileron proved too sluggish so spoilers were added for better lateral control. Later, Ed Zap from Northrup Co., designed an all aluminum wing of the same configuration other than it folded like the Grumman Avenger. The idea was to make storing the Kingfisher on aircraft carriers easier. They only made two planes with these wings. The stabs on these two test planes were also modified with tapered chords and squared tips. After all the testing the military started to move away from the seaplanes so the wings which were costly and hard to make were never put into production.

scale only 4 me

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I actually mixed in flaperons like the full scale plane had, fully deployed I could really slow it down, but the aileron control was way to slow and mushy,, kinda scary so I stop using it.

JL1

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I have the reamins of one I cracked up a few years ago. Maybe I will rebuild it with the spoilers and"flaperons" and see what it does.

chistech

The HiTec 225BB has 54oz of torque @4.8 volts so they are actually stronger than most standard servos. Like you said, I won't be doing crazy flying with this thing but the extra torque is welcomed. I was able to pick up one servo yesterday from a different HS that is far from home. I travel daily for work all over New England so I try and go by all the different HS I can. Now that I have the one servo I can plan my servo bays out so I can start covering the bottom of the wings once I'm done with the center section. I added an addition spar and shear webbed it at the rear of the wing over the wing bolt area. I also doubled the ribs. All this is to reinforce the middle of the wing to support the float center mount.
On the tip floats. The Charlie Smith plans show just bending the K&S aluminum streamlined tubing over in a 90 degree. I thought this wouldn't be good but I tried it. It works great so that is how I will be doing the top of the struts for the tip float mounts. I will drill through the tab made for the 6/32 mounting screw to secure the strut. I will get some pictures as I go. Probably won't get a chance to get over to my buddy's house for a couple of days. [] Maybe, just maybe, I can talk the wife into visiting with his wife while I do some work. Actually, my wife and his are good friends.

chistech

worked on sheeting the center section top today. I had to finish up the shear webbing on the second mid section spar over the wing mounting bolt area then I cut the sheeting, taped it together, carpenter glue, and then sheeted the wing. I use CA thick on the first edge to hold the sheeting then I carpenter glue all the ribs then thick CA the other edge at the main spar. Finish off the wing with the one piece for the leading edge. After all was set for a while, I unpinned the wing and up it came. I did the "static pinned" assembly to get a look at her. You can see in the pictures she's starting to come together now. Will start on the underside of the wing with the servo mounts and other things so I can close the wing up.

scale only 4 me

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scale only 4 me

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A little inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/user/450excpi.../0/o0yn_FeDv6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX7hJQim3EQ

Sorry about the crappy quality, I had it on a vhs tape, doesn't transfer well

chistech

Who's plane was this? It looks about the size of the Brian Taylor. Kind of being flown fast it appears and the landing was kind of crosswind/downwind wasn't it? Looks like a nice job on the build too. It is painted exactly the way I plan on painting mine. I like the visibility of the yellow chrome wings. I got all the servo mounts made for flaps and ailerons tonight and glued up the wing skins with carpenter's glue. I will apply them tomorrow.

scale only 4 me

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That's mine, in the original color scheme,, It was way tail heavy,,
If you look in my gallery you'll see the same plane with lead taped to the float, that picture was taken the next time out, It had a radio lock out on that day and when I repaired it I went with the Blue color scheme

The metal finish color scheme was actually harder to see than the blue is,, especially in the overcast skies

chistech

You know, I was thinking that about the aluminum finish being hard to see. I already have a Corsair in the 3 tone paint scheme though and that is why I want to go with the other paint scheme. What power did you have in it? It looks pretty fast? Also, you scratch built it correct? I noticed the wing doesn't have that much dihedral. With the dihedral the tip floats end up being quite a bit longer on the struts. When a plane is tail heavy that's the worst. I assembled a EMS Stuka for a customer this past fall and balanced it at the recommended CG. It was way to tail heavy and flew like crap. When I came in for a landing just as I was about to touch down I relaxed what bit of down elevator I was holding and cut the power back. I was just two feet off the ground and when I went to land it "space shuttled" on me pitching the nose up, bleeding off all airspeed and stalling on the left wingtip. The force of the tip hitting the ground made the fuse buckle just in front of the stab. It's all repaired now and the owner is going to move the CG forward about 15mm before we fly it again. Thanks for posting that film. I can't wait to get mine done.

scale only 4 me

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Yes, it was built from 3-views,
It has a YS 120 and yes it is fast, most of the time I would fly it around 1/2-3/4 throttle, full only for take of a vertical climbs

Dihedral and tip float length?
It been more than 10 years since I built it, but I remember just matched the 3-view angle for dihedral, the tip float strut length too. but looking over some photos, it does seem flater than scale and I didn't put in the flat center section. I can't really remember if that was a mistake or just for ease of contruction

I do remember once it was all built and ready I set it in water I realized the tip floats were too long, Mostly because the model was so heavy it sat lower in the water than I expected. I had to cut them down about 1/2".

I had to learn the power on landing technique this plane likes, there is no floating it in, you need to fly it all the way back onto the water.

If yours is a light as your target weight, you shouldn't have these problems.

Yours is looking real good,

bear 57

I agree with your observation re the landing of a Kingfisher.
I have a Doug MacBrien Kingfisher and until I learned to keep lots of throttle on for landings, I was doing a lot of repairs.
It does not float in, that's for sure.
I Enjoy the thread.