First Seaplane suggestions
11-28-2002, 01:18 AM
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First Seaplane suggestions
Hi Larry,
I fly the Thunder Tiger Seamaster 40 ARF (and a Ace Seamaster 120 sold by Ace R/C as a kit way back when). My friend flies the Mariner 40 ARF and has let me fly it as well. They are both well built and good designs. The Seamaster 40 is more aerobatic and a little cleaner. The Mariner is more stable on the water with easier take offs and landings. The Mariner can do all the basic aerobatics as well, but the Seamaster can do great snaps and spins and flies inverted almost better than it does upright. There are other kits available. Balsa USA kits the Northstar and the Laker (see their web site). If you are into electrics I think you can still get the Pondside distributed by Hobby Hanger. I bought the kit last winter and have started building (48" span powered with a 05 on 7-8 cells, laser cut, looks like a small Seamaster without the T-tail). There is also one kited by Ace R/C that may still be available through Ace Hobby Distributing called the Puddle Jumper, It's alot like the Pondside. Ace R/C also used to kit a .60 size model called the Seadancer .60 but it was discontinued when Ace R/C sold to Ace Hobby Distributing (Thunder Tiger)---best seaplane I ever flew. I bought a Seadancer short kit from Bob Holman Plans (San Bernardino CA) last year. Haven't built it yet. It provices the ribs, formers and all the plywood (fuse sides and bottoms, pylon box etc.) all laser cut with nice plans and a glass cowl ...$90.00. The plywood is real nice stuff too. Should still be available.
Rixter
I fly the Thunder Tiger Seamaster 40 ARF (and a Ace Seamaster 120 sold by Ace R/C as a kit way back when). My friend flies the Mariner 40 ARF and has let me fly it as well. They are both well built and good designs. The Seamaster 40 is more aerobatic and a little cleaner. The Mariner is more stable on the water with easier take offs and landings. The Mariner can do all the basic aerobatics as well, but the Seamaster can do great snaps and spins and flies inverted almost better than it does upright. There are other kits available. Balsa USA kits the Northstar and the Laker (see their web site). If you are into electrics I think you can still get the Pondside distributed by Hobby Hanger. I bought the kit last winter and have started building (48" span powered with a 05 on 7-8 cells, laser cut, looks like a small Seamaster without the T-tail). There is also one kited by Ace R/C that may still be available through Ace Hobby Distributing called the Puddle Jumper, It's alot like the Pondside. Ace R/C also used to kit a .60 size model called the Seadancer .60 but it was discontinued when Ace R/C sold to Ace Hobby Distributing (Thunder Tiger)---best seaplane I ever flew. I bought a Seadancer short kit from Bob Holman Plans (San Bernardino CA) last year. Haven't built it yet. It provices the ribs, formers and all the plywood (fuse sides and bottoms, pylon box etc.) all laser cut with nice plans and a glass cowl ...$90.00. The plywood is real nice stuff too. Should still be available.
Rixter
12-10-2003, 07:37 PM
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RE: First Seaplane suggestions
I have a friend who is looking for info about an Ace Seadancer (60 I think) - on the CG location on the wing as well as some info on how to position the plane on a CG finder. Because it has a pod on top of the wing that holds the motor and tank he is not sure if it should be balanced in the inverted position or not. Any info or suggestions would be welcome?
Thanks
PaulWR
Thanks
PaulWR
12-11-2003, 12:04 PM
#3
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RE: First Seaplane suggestions
The Sea Dancer CG is on the front edge of the spar and it won't make any difference if you balance it right side up or upside down. Do it which ever way it will stay on the balancer without you holding it. (Probably right side up.)
Jim
Jim
12-11-2003, 08:29 PM
#6
RE: First Seaplane suggestions
All are great planes.
For a FIRST seaplane, I'd recommend you slap a set of floats on your favorite existing airplane. Stick, profile, trainer, whatever. You can be flying with wet feet for well under $100. Get a set of styrofoam floats from planefun, or foam floats, or Niagara, or RnZ, and you can be out the next weekend having more fun than grownups are allowed to have.
For a FIRST seaplane, I'd recommend you slap a set of floats on your favorite existing airplane. Stick, profile, trainer, whatever. You can be flying with wet feet for well under $100. Get a set of styrofoam floats from planefun, or foam floats, or Niagara, or RnZ, and you can be out the next weekend having more fun than grownups are allowed to have.
12-13-2003, 01:04 AM
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RE: First Seaplane suggestions
How do smaller planes handle the float conversion?
Every summer I spend some time in the silence of the northwoods (just barely outside boundary water borders, so a RC plane would be alright) The silence is only broken by Beavers flying over (AIRPLANE type beavers) and other unidentifiable floaters. I'd really enjoy flying off the lake, it gets glassy smooth and even though i've never flown off water before I have to resist the urge to cut down trees and make surrogate models to fly untill I get home. I could bring a plane, but because of packing space limitations it'd need to be fairly small. Perhaps an electric? It'd mean less breaking of the silence and less support equipment to haul up there. Hobby-lobby.com has some tempting craft for just such a project. All the help I can get.
Every summer I spend some time in the silence of the northwoods (just barely outside boundary water borders, so a RC plane would be alright) The silence is only broken by Beavers flying over (AIRPLANE type beavers) and other unidentifiable floaters. I'd really enjoy flying off the lake, it gets glassy smooth and even though i've never flown off water before I have to resist the urge to cut down trees and make surrogate models to fly untill I get home. I could bring a plane, but because of packing space limitations it'd need to be fairly small. Perhaps an electric? It'd mean less breaking of the silence and less support equipment to haul up there. Hobby-lobby.com has some tempting craft for just such a project. All the help I can get.
12-13-2003, 07:23 AM
#8
RE: First Seaplane suggestions
Disclaimer: I have never personally put floats on an electric. There seem to be plenty in the literature, and electric motors don't seem to have those annoying flameouts that keep your plane from taxiing back.
My experience is: if it flies well, it will fly well with floats.
www.foamfloats.com has a gallery showing many of the GWS models flying with floats.
You could have your own Beaver in 1/(large number) scale!
My experience is: if it flies well, it will fly well with floats.
www.foamfloats.com has a gallery showing many of the GWS models flying with floats.
You could have your own Beaver in 1/(large number) scale!
12-13-2003, 12:06 PM
#9
RE: First Seaplane suggestions
Personally, I recommend AGAINST adding floats to your existing plane. Now I'm not saying "Don't do it", but before you do, consider a few things:
Having two pontoons in the water is more difficult to control that a single hull, like the SeaMaster, or Mariner (Both of which, I highly recommend), Because with a single hull, slight tilting doesn't affect the planes forward path, whereas with two pontoons, slight tilting will cause one float to create more drag, which will pull the plane in that direction. So the bottom line is, a single hull is easier to control on the water.
The next thing is that a single hull design is MUCH more efficient aerodynamically than having the added drag of two pontoons hanging low on your planes profile. Bottom line, Single hull designs are easier to fly.
And finally, a "Not so perfect" landing or take off can result in your plane flipping over and getting wet, or worse yet, breaking up and REALLY getting wet. If that happens to your only plane, you're out of commission for a good chunk of prime-time flying season.
As far as which one, Between the SeaMaster and the Mariner, I think that anyone who is pased the beginner stage and wants to try water flying should be able to handle the Mariner (I reviewed it for RCU Magazine. Give the review a look if you want to know more about it). The Mariner is also more than capable of flying some very nice aerobatics.
The Seamaster, is just a step above, IMHO. It's a little faster, and a little more agile. So if you're ready for something a bit more advanced, that's what I would go with.
Having two pontoons in the water is more difficult to control that a single hull, like the SeaMaster, or Mariner (Both of which, I highly recommend), Because with a single hull, slight tilting doesn't affect the planes forward path, whereas with two pontoons, slight tilting will cause one float to create more drag, which will pull the plane in that direction. So the bottom line is, a single hull is easier to control on the water.
The next thing is that a single hull design is MUCH more efficient aerodynamically than having the added drag of two pontoons hanging low on your planes profile. Bottom line, Single hull designs are easier to fly.
And finally, a "Not so perfect" landing or take off can result in your plane flipping over and getting wet, or worse yet, breaking up and REALLY getting wet. If that happens to your only plane, you're out of commission for a good chunk of prime-time flying season.
As far as which one, Between the SeaMaster and the Mariner, I think that anyone who is pased the beginner stage and wants to try water flying should be able to handle the Mariner (I reviewed it for RCU Magazine. Give the review a look if you want to know more about it). The Mariner is also more than capable of flying some very nice aerobatics.
The Seamaster, is just a step above, IMHO. It's a little faster, and a little more agile. So if you're ready for something a bit more advanced, that's what I would go with.
12-13-2003, 07:45 PM
#11
RE: First Seaplane suggestions
I agree with MinnFlyer that the Mariner is a sweet plane. And it probably IS more docile than the seamaster.
I have a little different stand on the floatplane vs flying boat issue. I can't say I disagree with Minnflyer: I just see it from a slightly different angle.
While I lived in Florida I was in a water-flying only club. There were more floatplanes than flying boats, but nobody made a big deal about it, and most members owned planes of both configurations. All-time great plane to fly from water is the Kadet Senior, 4 channels, with a .90 4-stroke and 40" floats. It's so much fun your face will hurt from grinning. As far as MinnFlyer's remarks about performance: An Astro Hog on floats is as fast as a Seamaster. If you want to go fast, you should look at a Northstar, but a Schneider Racer is probably just as fast. Six of one, Half Dozen of the other.
All my favorite flying boats will trip if you let a wingtip float grab. Almost all of 'em will slide around if you use the rudder much while going fast, altho' v-hulls (mariner) tend to reduce this becaue of the keel helping to keep things straight. If you're sliding around on takeoff, you should have gone ahead and lifted off. If you're sliding around on landing, you're just playing with the plane. Sooner or later, probably sooner, it will drop off step while going sideways and dig a tip float in and spin you around. This CAN break off the rip float. It's fun to slide around, but straighten it out before you chop the throttle.
If you have a floatplane and land a little hard, it bounces/skips. If you touch down on one float first, it's no big deal. If you are so crossed up that you dig in a wingtip, it can be a short landing. If you are so crossed up that you land a flying boat wingtip first, you are in just as much trouble. The really big fun thing with water-flying is trying to see if you can land without skipping....The wake never lies. When you get it right, you will know you made a GREAT landing.....and your wheel landings will be better, too.
If you taxi a floatplane crosswind, there's some chance the wind will grab a wingtip and lead to a flipover.
If you taxi a flying boat crosswind, the wing is closer to the water so they >tend< to get a little less wind under the upwind wingtip. This is almost totally dependent on how big your wingtip floats are, and how they are rigged. There are no guarantees, and I have seen Northstars blow over under the right (wrong?) conditions
If you land a flying boat a little hard and push the nose under, there will probably be water in your radio compartment.
Flying boats have hollow wood fuselages. It's not good to get water inside. It is highly advisable to waterproof the inside of the fuselage at assembly. If you have much water inside and don't know it, it will run to the tail on takeoff taking the Cg with it, and you will have a short, spectacular flight and a boat ride.
Floatplanes >>Should<< have styrofoam floats that can't fill with water anyway. The floats should have a waterproof skin for mechanical protection and strength. They don't get water inside the fuselage unless you have an oopsie. You get less water in a floatplane, but the balsa should still be sealed.
Having flown both types, the magnitude of the peril is about the same, just different. I stand by my consel that if you want to try float flying, it's easier to put a set of floats on your favorite plane. After all, it's your favorite plane because it flies well, right? and you are comfortable with it. So with the floats you will instantly get a feel of how the floats change the plane's behavior(some, but not a lot), find out how much fun float flying is (a lot), and you don't have to buy an all-new plane (send me the difference in $$).
If you find you like flying from the water (who couldn't?) you probably WILL want to invest in a flying boat. The Mariner and the Seamaster are both excellent. I think the Seamaster has higher performance. The Mariner flies like an ugly stick....No vices, throw it around, and it won't bite you. The Balsa USA laker is a kit only and it's probably a bit more trainerlike than the others (flat-bottom airfoil) If you can get a set of plans and scratch-build a Sea Cruiser, you'll have a ball with it.
I have a little different stand on the floatplane vs flying boat issue. I can't say I disagree with Minnflyer: I just see it from a slightly different angle.
While I lived in Florida I was in a water-flying only club. There were more floatplanes than flying boats, but nobody made a big deal about it, and most members owned planes of both configurations. All-time great plane to fly from water is the Kadet Senior, 4 channels, with a .90 4-stroke and 40" floats. It's so much fun your face will hurt from grinning. As far as MinnFlyer's remarks about performance: An Astro Hog on floats is as fast as a Seamaster. If you want to go fast, you should look at a Northstar, but a Schneider Racer is probably just as fast. Six of one, Half Dozen of the other.
All my favorite flying boats will trip if you let a wingtip float grab. Almost all of 'em will slide around if you use the rudder much while going fast, altho' v-hulls (mariner) tend to reduce this becaue of the keel helping to keep things straight. If you're sliding around on takeoff, you should have gone ahead and lifted off. If you're sliding around on landing, you're just playing with the plane. Sooner or later, probably sooner, it will drop off step while going sideways and dig a tip float in and spin you around. This CAN break off the rip float. It's fun to slide around, but straighten it out before you chop the throttle.
If you have a floatplane and land a little hard, it bounces/skips. If you touch down on one float first, it's no big deal. If you are so crossed up that you dig in a wingtip, it can be a short landing. If you are so crossed up that you land a flying boat wingtip first, you are in just as much trouble. The really big fun thing with water-flying is trying to see if you can land without skipping....The wake never lies. When you get it right, you will know you made a GREAT landing.....and your wheel landings will be better, too.
If you taxi a floatplane crosswind, there's some chance the wind will grab a wingtip and lead to a flipover.
If you taxi a flying boat crosswind, the wing is closer to the water so they >tend< to get a little less wind under the upwind wingtip. This is almost totally dependent on how big your wingtip floats are, and how they are rigged. There are no guarantees, and I have seen Northstars blow over under the right (wrong?) conditions
If you land a flying boat a little hard and push the nose under, there will probably be water in your radio compartment.
Flying boats have hollow wood fuselages. It's not good to get water inside. It is highly advisable to waterproof the inside of the fuselage at assembly. If you have much water inside and don't know it, it will run to the tail on takeoff taking the Cg with it, and you will have a short, spectacular flight and a boat ride.
Floatplanes >>Should<< have styrofoam floats that can't fill with water anyway. The floats should have a waterproof skin for mechanical protection and strength. They don't get water inside the fuselage unless you have an oopsie. You get less water in a floatplane, but the balsa should still be sealed.
Having flown both types, the magnitude of the peril is about the same, just different. I stand by my consel that if you want to try float flying, it's easier to put a set of floats on your favorite plane. After all, it's your favorite plane because it flies well, right? and you are comfortable with it. So with the floats you will instantly get a feel of how the floats change the plane's behavior(some, but not a lot), find out how much fun float flying is (a lot), and you don't have to buy an all-new plane (send me the difference in $$).
If you find you like flying from the water (who couldn't?) you probably WILL want to invest in a flying boat. The Mariner and the Seamaster are both excellent. I think the Seamaster has higher performance. The Mariner flies like an ugly stick....No vices, throw it around, and it won't bite you. The Balsa USA laker is a kit only and it's probably a bit more trainerlike than the others (flat-bottom airfoil) If you can get a set of plans and scratch-build a Sea Cruiser, you'll have a ball with it.
12-14-2003, 10:38 AM
#12
RE: First Seaplane suggestions
jrf, sorry, my typo, I corrected it. I reviewed the Mariner 40 for RCU magazine. Here's the link:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=154
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=154
12-17-2003, 12:06 AM
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RE: First Seaplane suggestions
Thanks for your help and advice. It's good that I found this forum with plenty of building time left and I'll be sure to return to it as I narrow my choices.
Foamfloats.com has set some ideas in motion...
Thanks again- Daniel
Foamfloats.com has set some ideas in motion...
Thanks again- Daniel
