skygreen67

Ok im very new to this and just bought a volcano epx and was wondering if this setup should br any good...

First thing i did was buy a Hobbyking X-Car Brushless Power System 4000KV/60A
Second thing was buy a steel spur gear with 64 teeth
Third was buy boca bearings but only changed the bearings for the wheels
Then i bought a ZIPPY Compact 5000mAh 3s 40c Lipo Pack
I also bought a motor heatsink with a 6v fan just in case...

What else should i be doing or am i doing something wrong?

CptKlink

Is that X-Car 60 Amp ESC able to run on a 3s Li-Po with that 4000KV motor? I would check myself but the hobby king site isen't working for me.

skygreen67

I believe it said it would when i bought it but now that u bring that up im not sure anymore... ill look at the specs shortly and post again... ive ran it very little so far as my lipo charger hasn't arrived yet

skygreen67

Yeah it says 5-9 cell nimh or 2-3 cell lipo

zackS30

What he means is like on my hobbywing sc8 it can handle 4s lipo but only with a motor 2000kv or less. On 3s it can handle 3000kv or less on 2s it can do a 4000kv motor.
All escs r like that. U need to get the full spec sheet for it b4 u hook all that up with a 3s lipo. It might not be able to handle it.

CptKlink

Ya I was thinking the same thing my Castle Sidewinder SCT ESC is rated for 75 AMPS for me to run 3s I need to have a motor with 3000KV or less. And mine is 15 AMPS more then yours so I'm guessing its around the same. Also yours being a heavier 4x4 I would deffently be only running 2s with the x-car ESC.

skygreen67

Yea i just looked and it didnt say anything about kv but it did say for a 3s i need a >10.5t motor and mines an 8.5t... i will also mention i think it just died on me... the motor wont move unless i give it a little push... i tried switching the battery to my venom 8.4v but it wont even move... what have i done and what can i do?

zackS30

ESC is probably burnt.
Maybe its not so bad I guess, have u checked for binding? Maybe reset the ESC have u tried that?

skygreen67

How do i reset the escs

CptKlink

check the manual its on the product page on hobby kings site. But most likely toasted the ESC running that motor on 3s Li-Po

skygreen67

Im not sure i understand... if the esc is capable of handling a 3s but the motor isnt why would there be a problem with the esc?

CptKlink

Actually the motor I bet can handle the 3s with no problem. Its the ESC that can't handle that high of KV on a 3s Li-Po. You see the higher the KV the higher the power draw and also adding 3s to it lets the motor take even more power to spin faster. Which most likely a 4000kv or over motor on 3s draws more amps then 60 amps Continuous and 380 amps burst which in turn most likely fried the ESC by the motor drawing more amps through the ESC then what the ESC was rated for.



For example lets take a real car now lets pretend the gas engine is the brushless motor and the transmission is the ESC. Now lets take a 700 HP V8 Engine and hook it up to a stock ford Pinto transmission. What do you think is going to happen to that transmission?

Now I'm by no means an expert but i'm pretty sure that is what happened to your ESC. Luckily Hobby king ESC's are cheap.

Now if you still want fairly cheap and still want to use that motor and the 3s battery you would need to go with something like this http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Truck_ESC.html

You might even be able to use this one as well http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...nsorless_.html

jbarelds

I have the SC8 as well, and your post made me worry I cannot use 3S in my Castle 3800KV + HW SC8 combo. Investigation learned that the numbers are a bit different. Taken from the HW website (http://www.hobbywing.com/product_show.asp?id=278):
With 6 cells NiMH/NiCd or 2S Lipo: KV≤6000;
With 7-9 cells NiMH/NiCd or 3S Lipo: KV≤4000;
With 10-12 cells NiMH/NiCd or 4S Lipo: KV≤3000.

You're right about the general idea though, I highly doubt a 60A ESC would be up to the task of running a 4000KV motor on 3S. The SC8 can, but only just, and it's double the power (120A vs. 60A).

nitrosportsandrunner

Running a 4000kv motor....on stock gearing...on 3s, that will end badly (seems it already has)
It is possible you just got a bad esc....how long did you run it before it stopped moving?

The EPX Pro...brushless versions, use a 3300kv motor. They also use a different size pinion gear than the brushed version. If you used the pinion gear from the brushed version...or even if you bought the pinion gear that the Pro version uses, you were likely over geared.
All that said, the Pro version runs well on 2s but 3s is going to push it's brushless system to the limit. I think that system also has a 60a ESC, and while you can run 3s on the stock motor with stock gearing, you have to do so on flat smooth ground. doing so off road can cause it to overheat.

So, running a 4000kv motor on 3s, on off road, with gearing that was likely too high would all cause the ESC and/or motor to overheat.

To do it over again, stick with 2s...get a 3300 or maybe 3500kv motor and buy the stock pinion gear for the Pro version. The Pro version on 2s gets close to 40mph....its no slouch.

If you want to stay with the 3s power....get a traxxas VXL system or something similar. Its motor has more power and the ESC can handle more amps. I had one in a Tornado epx pro. You can run a full 3s pack without overheating that system. But you have to use caution....the EPX (and pro) models do NOT have a slipper clutch. If the truck gets traction and you peg the throttle too fast, you will either snap a dogbone or strip the diff gears since there is no slipper clutch to absorb the shock. I have owned a few tornados, lightnings and volcanos...brushed and brushless, some stock, some well modified. Trust me, a mild brushless system on 2s lipo is the best way to go....you will still have good speed but you wont be breaking parts every other battery pack!

skygreen67

Thank you for your advice... i only ran it for 5 mins on the lowest programmable settings and was using a 16 tooth pinion with a 64 tooth spur gear... i thought it just over heated at first too but when i touched it both the esc and motor was still cool... my goal is/was to beat my neighbors stock brushless volcano in a race... if its either the motor or/and esc that are trashed id really like to keep the battery and change them but after spending over 500$ on this project i rly need a good budget combo

nitrosportsandrunner

the thing with budget combos (speaking as someone who has had a lot of them) is you always run the risk of getting a dud. I have had ezrun/hobbywing that lasted until I sold the car and I have had others that died really fast (usually it was the ESC that went)

I forget to ask, the system you bought...did it have a finned out 380 motor or a true 540 motor?

A vxl system will stomp your friends stock epx pro. One sad thing about the brushed epx version, is that it costs more to upgrade it to brushless then it would to just buy a Pro version.

You could consider a dynamite Tazer brushless system. The ESC actually has a lower amp rating but....1) the motors are 4 pole 2) system is waterproof and 3) since it is a brand name item, if the ESC dies within 30 days you should be able to get it replaced. Ive seen the systems on ebay for $90. I believe there is a 3300kv combo option as well. The ESC is rated for 3s.

Other than that, I think buying another hobbywing system is your only cheap option. Most any other system will be $150 or more.

skygreen67

The reason i want to beat him so bad is because i didnt know anything about them and he sold me the epx for the same price that he bought the pro for and used that money to get the pro... i got ripped badly

skygreen67

As for that question i have no idea in the slightest what youre talking about

skygreen67

According to the specs on http://www.dynamiterc.com/Products/D...rodID=DYN4943C would this work?

CptKlink

That one can only handle pretty much the same as you already had. This is what it says on horizon hobby about the setup.

2S LiPo - up to 6000KV On-Road/4000KV Off-Road.
3S LiPo - up to 4000KV On-road/2500KV Off-road

So you can only use your current 3s Li-Po if your driving on-road only and i'm also betting they also mean with a on road R/C as well and not a big Monster Truck.

If your still going to want to use your 3s Li-Po and still use a motor around 4000KV your going to need a 120 AMP or higher ESC

You could try this ( http://www.terranovahobby.ca/product.php?productid=2077&cat=18&page=1) Its a SkyRC Toro Short Course 120A ESC/4000KV Combo for $99.99 Theres only one left so I would act fast if you wanted it.

skygreen67

I dont mind using lower kv... but which would have more punch... a lower kv rating and a 3s or a higher kv rating with a 2s... and sensored or sensorless?

nitrosportsandrunner

I am sorry to hear that. I was a Redcat dealer for a while, and have been a RCU member for years. Sadly, I have heard all to often of people buying redcat models for way over the MAP price (lowest price dealers can sell for)
The epx at $140 is a fair price for a fair RC. But for $200-$240 there are several much better models (redcat and other brands) to be bought.
I think this happens often as people new to the hobby get drawn to redcat as a entry level brand. That is fine, but not when you pay higher level brand prices.
I once bought a used epx pro off ebay for a mere $80....just needed a radio and lipo battery! Steals can be had when it comes to used redcats. The motor/esc alone were worth $50.

The motors I mention....some cheaper brushless models that are 1/10 scale are using smaller motors...that have a case that is 540 sized (standard size can, same as the stock brushed motor) and since the case is much thicker it is finned for added cooling.

here are 2 pics

The outer diameter of both motors is nearly the same as is the mounting hole spacing. But the core of the first motor is smaller.
While these smaller motors are still more powerful than the stock brushed motor, they obviously cannot produce the same torque of the larger diameter motor. As such, they also draw less amps. The Redcat Caldera models use such a motor. They run fine on 2s lipo, but drop in a 3s and the ESC will thermal shutdown in about 3-4 minutes. Both the motor and ESC in that truck are rated for 3s....but they are installed in a fairly big (bigger than the volcano) truck that is 4wd. You could get away with 3s with that system if installed in a lighter 2wd truck. But turning 4 wheels and having added weight tends to draw more amps.

Still, it sounds as tho you simply got a bad ESC. Usually if a ESC or motor dies quickly, it is due to overheating. And most motors will take up to 200 degrees, and most ESC's will hold up to 150. It is obviously better to have cooler temps than that, but the point is if your esc was cool to the touch then it couldn't have gotten over 100 or 110.

I have always stuck with sensorless motors...slightly less hassle. Sensored are nice for race trucks and maybe rock crawlers where fine throttle control at low speeds is important. sensored motors do not "shutter" or "cog" at low speeds. Sensorless motors need to have the rotor spinning a few rpms before they can get the pulsing of power to the motor smooth (not a technical explination...lol)

for most 1/10 and especially 1/8 models, a lower KV motor running a higher voltage battery tends to work better. The lower KV motor can produce more torque to get things moving....and the higher voltage keeps the motor spinning fast enough to achieve high speeds. High KV motors work well in onroad cars, or smaller 1/18 scale models. There are people who like their 5800 and 7200kv motors on 2s in their offroad 2wd trucks....but I feel lower KV just keeps things simpler. For 1/10 trucks (2wd or 4wd) I like motors in the 3000-3900kv range. These tend to produce good speeds on 2s and crazy speeds on 3s. Heavier and larger 1/8 truck have anywhere from a 1800-2500kv motor (which are also larger in diameter or length)

skygreen67

Thank you for your help... i think thats what ill do then... hopefully ill find something around 3500kv but i think theres something wrong with either my battery or esc... everything is insulated nicely and turned off but when i go to connect the battery it sparks

nitrosportsandrunner

it is not uncommon to see a spark when connecting your battery...especially when using anything bigger than a 2s lipo.

skygreen67

Oh ok good to know