Motor Fried, Why?
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Motor Fried, Why?
Hey guys,
I have a 1/8 Trophy Truggy Flux that has Castle 1515 2200kV on 6S. It has 13t pinion and 50t spur gear and it was running fine on stock tyres but then i change tyres to Proline badlands 3.8 and the motor temp measured 160c literally. The motor is now fried so i need to find out why it fried before i buy a new motor. Would a simple change in tyres cause the temps to go ballistic? This was the very first run on badlands so they were extremely grippy. Everything else was running OK except the ESC was running a little high but it has temp cut-off and it got to 110c spike with 90-100c average. I usually get under 90c on stock tyres. Only thing i can think of is that i may have damaged the motor on the very first 6s run which was because i had too high pinion and it got really hot but it was fine for few runs after so i have no idea.
I have a 1/8 Trophy Truggy Flux that has Castle 1515 2200kV on 6S. It has 13t pinion and 50t spur gear and it was running fine on stock tyres but then i change tyres to Proline badlands 3.8 and the motor temp measured 160c literally. The motor is now fried so i need to find out why it fried before i buy a new motor. Would a simple change in tyres cause the temps to go ballistic? This was the very first run on badlands so they were extremely grippy. Everything else was running OK except the ESC was running a little high but it has temp cut-off and it got to 110c spike with 90-100c average. I usually get under 90c on stock tyres. Only thing i can think of is that i may have damaged the motor on the very first 6s run which was because i had too high pinion and it got really hot but it was fine for few runs after so i have no idea.
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Yep, All my posts are metric units unless stated otherwise. So what do i need to do? My ratios for my drive-train are 43t ring gear, 10t diff pinion with 13/50 gearing. Is this setup wrong or something? My ESC has data logging for ESC only and i get around 70C average with 90C spikes, Motor temp would be higher. Hmmmm
#4
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That ESC temperature isn't bad. About right. But 160C for the motor is too high. I'm not familiar with your vehicle, but as long as you're running the stock gearing, you have a known starting point. As I said, a taller tire is like gearing up, so you may have to compensate by changing the pinion to one with one or two fewer teeth. Bearings need checking. One seized bearing can raise temps ten degrees. What is your ambient temperature?
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That ESC temperature isn't bad. About right. But 160C for the motor is too high. I'm not familiar with your vehicle, but as long as you're running the stock gearing, you have a known starting point. As I said, a taller tire is like gearing up, so you may have to compensate by changing the pinion to one with one or two fewer teeth. Bearings need checking. One seized bearing can raise temps ten degrees. What is your ambient temperature?
#7
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Also, check your mesh of the pinion and spur gear. If it's too tight, that can cause strain on the front motor bearing, and also heat up the motor. The proper way to set mesh is the paper method. Place a piece of 20# bond paper between the pinion and spur. Mesh the gears and tighten the mount screws. Remove the paper. Mesh is now set.
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Also, check your mesh of the pinion and spur gear. If it's too tight, that can cause strain on the front motor bearing, and also heat up the motor. The proper way to set mesh is the paper method. Place a piece of 20# bond paper between the pinion and spur. Mesh the gears and tighten the mount screws. Remove the paper. Mesh is now set.
Last edited by David87965; 06-25-2016 at 09:54 AM.
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I been studying the data logs and i have noticed the rate of temp increase on the ESC is the same for the third run which i had zero problems and the run that fried so this means my setup was never the correct setup so i conclude it came down to my hard driving and barely any resting stops although the difference between my other runs and the last runs was i did have a rest after 5 minutes which is why it took about 5 runs to finally cook it because sometimes i would stop but on my 6th run i never did. Why didn't i pick this up when measuring? because by time i took the shell off it would have dropped heaps because the weather is very cold here and would not take long at all to cool to safer levels.
tldr; too much hard brutal driving and not enough cool-down time cooked my motor.
tldr; too much hard brutal driving and not enough cool-down time cooked my motor.
Last edited by David87965; 06-26-2016 at 04:57 AM.
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yeah, do you know any better motors for my trophy, i want it to be fast (85 km/h min) and not have to cool down until the battery goes flat... or am i dreaming lol has to be 25mm mounting holes or come with trophy motor mountable plate.
#12
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I ran the gear calc on your combo, even on 6s that's about 60mph theoretical. You want 85kph or 50mph which it shouldn't have had any problem doing and it really shouldn't have gotten all that hot either. I've run that motor in other truggies geared for about 55mph and maybe it would hit 180F when beating on it hard in really tall grass. There's no reason the 1515 shouldn't have been able to handle this combo, if anything maybe it could've used a heatsink and fan. But if you want a more powerful motor it needs to be bigger, either larger diameter and/or longer. In 40-42mm diameter have a look at Neu 1521 or 1527, Poseidon's 1527, Track Power 4070 (NOT Turnigy Track Star), or Leopard's 4085 and 4092. All are 25mm mounting. There's also the Castle/Traxxas 1717 from the XO1, but it's just under 50mm diameter requiring the center diff to be raised with a spacer.
The only time I've ever seen temps anywhere near yours was an old 2pole Feigao I overheated a bunch of times. Then I purposely way way way overgeared it and proceeded to thrash it for scientific purposes but never saw anything over 275F.
The only time I've ever seen temps anywhere near yours was an old 2pole Feigao I overheated a bunch of times. Then I purposely way way way overgeared it and proceeded to thrash it for scientific purposes but never saw anything over 275F.
Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 06-26-2016 at 05:24 PM.
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I ran the gear calc on your combo, even on 6s that's about 60mph theoretical. You want 85kph or 50mph which it shouldn't have had any problem doing and it really shouldn't have gotten all that hot either. I've run that motor in other truggies geared for about 55mph and maybe it would hit 180F when beating on it hard in really tall grass. There's no reason the 1515 shouldn't have been able to handle this combo, if anything maybe it could've used a heatsink and fan. But if you want a more powerful motor it needs to be bigger, either larger diameter and/or longer. In 40-42mm diameter have a look at Neu 1521 or 1527, Poseidon's 1527, Track Power 4070 (NOT Turnigy Track Star), or Leopard's 4085 and 4092. All are 25mm mounting. There's also the Castle/Traxxas 1717 from the XO1, but it's just under 50mm diameter requiring the center diff to be raised with a spacer.
The only time I've ever seen temps anywhere near yours was an old 2pole Feigao I overheated a bunch of times. Then I purposely way way way overgeared it and proceeded to thrash it for scientific purposes but never saw anything over 275F.
The only time I've ever seen temps anywhere near yours was an old 2pole Feigao I overheated a bunch of times. Then I purposely way way way overgeared it and proceeded to thrash it for scientific purposes but never saw anything over 275F.
Does this graph look right? http://imgur.com/NJYPSGp and http://imgur.com/Y0oEStx
First 3 thick vertical red lines are just "Motor start failure" warnings and the last one is just a "Normal Boot-Up Sequence" that is when i stopped and noticed the 160c degree motor temp. The horizontal pink thick line says "Temperature Cut-off 115.00 Degrees" and the thick red horizontal line is the LVC which is set for 3.4.
I am just so puzzled why this setup even blew up my motor.
Last edited by David87965; 06-26-2016 at 11:00 PM.
#14
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What do you have the timing set at? If you got it cranked up that will heat things up.
Edit: The only effect dust will have is on the bearings. Dusty conditions with the decreased traction that comes with it will provide less of a load on the motor. The only time this isn't true is if you've got the throttle pinned, doing donuts and the like with the tires looking like pizza cutters, for extended periods of time. That's a pretty high load, high rpm situation with very little airflow. It may be fun but also something that should be enjoyed in shorter bursts.
Anyway the the rotor is definitely toast after getting that hot, it loses magnetism after getting that hot and will only overheat even easier next time it's ran. The bearings are also a pain to replace in these motors. But the windings are probably ok. The solution is simple though, get a rebuild kit. It includes a new rotor and both end caps with new bearings installed for easy replacement. Make sure the timing is set to default (I'm unsure of exact value) and try again. Or get a big boy motor.
Edit: The only effect dust will have is on the bearings. Dusty conditions with the decreased traction that comes with it will provide less of a load on the motor. The only time this isn't true is if you've got the throttle pinned, doing donuts and the like with the tires looking like pizza cutters, for extended periods of time. That's a pretty high load, high rpm situation with very little airflow. It may be fun but also something that should be enjoyed in shorter bursts.
Anyway the the rotor is definitely toast after getting that hot, it loses magnetism after getting that hot and will only overheat even easier next time it's ran. The bearings are also a pain to replace in these motors. But the windings are probably ok. The solution is simple though, get a rebuild kit. It includes a new rotor and both end caps with new bearings installed for easy replacement. Make sure the timing is set to default (I'm unsure of exact value) and try again. Or get a big boy motor.
Last edited by Maj_Overdrive; 06-27-2016 at 02:32 PM.
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What do you have the timing set at? If you got it cranked up that will heat things up.
Edit: The only effect dust will have is on the bearings. Dusty conditions with the decreased traction that comes with it will provide less of a load on the motor. The only time this isn't true is if you've got the throttle pinned, doing donuts and the like with the tires looking like pizza cutters, for extended periods of time. That's a pretty high load, high rpm situation with very little airflow. It may be fun but also something that should be enjoyed in shorter bursts.
Anyway the the rotor is definitely toast after getting that hot, it loses magnetism after getting that hot and will only overheat even easier next time it's ran. The bearings are also a pain to replace in these motors. But the windings are probably ok. The solution is simple though, get a rebuild kit. It includes a new rotor and both end caps with new bearings installed for easy replacement. Make sure the timing is set to default (I'm unsure of exact value) and try again. Or get a big boy motor.
Edit: The only effect dust will have is on the bearings. Dusty conditions with the decreased traction that comes with it will provide less of a load on the motor. The only time this isn't true is if you've got the throttle pinned, doing donuts and the like with the tires looking like pizza cutters, for extended periods of time. That's a pretty high load, high rpm situation with very little airflow. It may be fun but also something that should be enjoyed in shorter bursts.
Anyway the the rotor is definitely toast after getting that hot, it loses magnetism after getting that hot and will only overheat even easier next time it's ran. The bearings are also a pain to replace in these motors. But the windings are probably ok. The solution is simple though, get a rebuild kit. It includes a new rotor and both end caps with new bearings installed for easy replacement. Make sure the timing is set to default (I'm unsure of exact value) and try again. Or get a big boy motor.
Thanks everyone for the useful replies, Highly appreciated