KLXMASTER14

Howdy Folks,

I can't begin to express my joy of finding that there is a resurgence of interest in this style of aircraft and flying ("Ballistic" Pattern). These airplanes are sleek and clean, and an excellent example of form following function. I am not at all enthused by the current state of pattern flying, i.e. "turnaround" style. I much prefer the one maneuver per pass format. I believe this puts the emphasis on the manuver, instead of a sequence.
My first pattern airplane was a .40 Kaos, followed by a couple of Vertigo 2's, then a T-2A and a couple of Patricias (I had the good fortune to work for Bob Smith R/C Aircraft as a teeneager). Then career/family/life took its place. But now I am back, and looking forward to participation in this exciting re-birth of, IMO the greatest era of pattern. Thirty years older, hopefully a little wiser, and definitely less hair!

Best regards,
Robert Fish

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The real kicker is that we could have been doing this many years ago, instead of following the herd into turnaround with its very expensive models.

I was hoping that when turnaround came to be, that folks like me, with not the best vision, would be able to fly in closer, retain the .60 size engines, or go even smaller, and not have a big increase in the cost of competing. Silly me.


Ed Cregger

Doc Austin

Right now I'm flying a 3D Hobby Shop Aspera electric because my club field has crippling noise and boundery restrictions. Trying to keep that little rocket inside the our tiny airspace is a pretty thriling challenge, but I love every second I have with her.

I loved the old ballistic pattern planes like the Curare, Atlas, Saturn and Phoenix. I loved the way they flew, even when I was just taking them out for sport. I dropped out for a few years, and when I came back, these big, beautiful, graceful birds were gone, and now everyone is hovering around with a bunch of sleds that look like flying pigs.

So, I'm grateful that the BPA is keeping the grand old ladies in circulation. I'm done with competition because I take it way too seriously, but I just loved the way these plajnes fly like they are on rails, and I love how smooth they are. The Aspera is very similar to the Curare, and it is very definately the finest plane I have ever owned, but it's not the same without the roar and the smell of burning nitro. If we ever get a field around here that is big enough I will definately build another Curare, and probably a Saturn. I'de love to find a Curare 40 and jam an OS55ax in it.

vellum2

My Feedback: (2)

Hey there Robert - You still have time to dig up one of your old birds for the contest in Alabama!

I'll be there with an Atlanta! Who hoo! "Gear up for Speed!"

Joe Walker

rcflyer1970

My Feedback: (212)

It was the screaming Pattern planes that got me interrested in R/C, if I had gone to field back in the late 70s and saw a bunch of farting 4-strokes and electric powered childrens toys lofting around in the breeze I would n't have got the bug. Same with boats it's much more exciting when you have twin OPS engines screaming by turning 30k at 80mph with just the props in the water verses the sleepy electics putt putting around the lake at 30 mph.

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

I fly turnaround pattern now because it's the only game in town. Funny how everyone follows the herd.
It seems at every contest there is a discussion among some of the pilots about how much fun the old
AMA pattern was and how much more enjoyable and cheaper the old .60 size ships were to build and
to fly but no one does anything about it. Don't get me wrong, I like pattern as it is today but somehow
it seems we had more fun back then. I think if there were as many contests today with the AMA patterns
instead of turnaround there would be a lot of people switching over. What I really would like to see is a
separate class for AMA maneuvers at the current contests. Seems that would make everyone happy.

tommy s

captb :
I like the 4-strokes, that power and torque is addictive but I agree with you about the electrics. While
it's interesting, there is something that doesn't feel right about them. Kind of takes some of the fun out
the whole thing. There's nothing like the smell of Nitro in the morning !!

rcflyer1970

My Feedback: (212)

I'm still waiting for 4 Strokes to evolve, I've had a few but found them to be expensive and complicated for the power to weight they produce on low nitro fuel, in the sixties we had pushrod motorcycles that revved to 6k rpm and not enough hp to talk about, now we ride DOHC engined bikes that make 180hp and rev 11k and some smaller engines to 16k, so while the 4 strokes have their place they could move into the future with double overhead cams, big carbs and take them to the next level.

KLXMASTER14

Quote:" I loved the old ballistic pattern planes like the Curare, Atlas, Saturn and Phoenix. I loved the way they flew, even when I was just taking them out for sport. I dropped out for a few years, and when I came back, these big, beautiful, graceful birds were gone, and now everyone is hovering around with a bunch of sleds that look like flying pigs."

Courtesy of the video game generation.

Quote: "The real kicker is that we could have been doing this many years ago, instead of following the herd into turnaround with its very expensive models."

We don't really appreciate what we have until is is gone.

Quote: " Hey there Robert - You still have time to dig up one of your old birds for the contest in Alabama!"

I'm digging, but Alabama is a ways off.

Quote: "It was the screaming Pattern planes that got me interrested in R/C, if I had gone to field back in the late 70s and saw a bunch of farting 4-strokes and electric powered childrens toys lofting around in the breeze I would n't have got the bug."

Copy that.

Quote: "I think if there were as many contests today with the AMA patterns
instead of turnaround there would be a lot of people switching over. What I really would like to see is a
separate class for AMA maneuvers at the current contests. Seems that would make everyone happy. "

That is a great idea.

jquid

Tommy,

We DID do something about it, started the BPA, and we have a contest coming up soon. The contest was to help decide classes and categories for planes with pipes and retracts. Check out the site (WWW.BallisticPattern.com) and see how Dave Brown commented on the BPA and the upcoming event. I think he will be there, as he infers in the video. We allso have someone working on the old design kits, trying to bring them back. So keep an eye out, you should start to see some of these birds back at the field and in the air soon. We also may have a bit of coverage coming from the upcoming event. The BPA should be mentioned in a followup SPA article in your AMA Magazine for July as well.

Stay "Tuned"!!!

Yak13

My Feedback: (17)

I know this is a very old thread, but I just couldn't resist to quote this text that expresses my exact feelings every time I go to the field on weekend mornings. It should be up there with Nietzsche and Neruda!

MTK

I appreciate to sound the screaming 60's made back in the day. I enjoyed my share of that sound.

However if one has been around the game since then he should remember that it was that same scream that was blamed by many as the main reason for lost flying sites. We were considered bad neighbors. That started an evolutionary trend for noise reduction that has continued strong for about 3 decades. Enter rubber iso mounts, better muffling, much better props, operating engines at much lower rpm and most importantly, turnaround flying. TA style was THE style that promised noise footprint reduction and, in theory, should have led to flying site protection.

All of that AMA (and Pattern) led campaign helped only in the more crowded areas of the country of course. Open space fields could care less. Wish I knew what the break down was between those who were actually helped by the noise reduction campaign of the past and those that were not.

Four-stroke operation, particularly the current big blocks from YS, still can get noisy if the operator has not taken proper measures, but not the same as the screaming 60's. Electrics are about the easiest to quiet down; I understand the allure of the 60's scream to some.

Health-wise, I'm convinced that the engine runs back in the day directly affected my hearing. I've permanently lost the ability to hear certain frequencies. The constant humming (and sometimes buzzing) of tinnitus is always with me since about 12 years ago. You young guys beware of this problem

gobigdave

+1 Yak13.

I will be building a classic pattern ship over the Winter. I just have not decided whether I will use my old OPS Red RE or figure a way to get electric in there with the same speed.

Yak13

My Feedback: (17)

OPS!
It's a legend and a jewel.

A hobby barn or RCAiir Arrow will go very fast with the old red head.

dhal22

I have many OPS engines. Their power is astounding. Only a YS 60 can match in my experiences.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Anyone here ever try running an OPS 60 Super SPP VAE (RIRE) on a pattern model...? Just 3.5 horses at 22K RPM...

They're clocked for speed applications but hey, it might be fun anyway!!

Or how about an OPS 80 DF RIRE...!

David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Dave,

while these are all amazing pieces of machinery, I think the current NR Speed/13 outperforms (2.45 bhp@18K) the OPS SPA RCA (2.35 bhp@17K) just slightly. However, the internal design of the Speed/13 does have a good 30+ years design experience on the SPA RCA.

David

gobigdave

I have a set of plans for a Deception on my bench. The Deception was my last pattern bird many years ago. That's where the OPS came from. The plane was sold when I had to get out of the hobby, but I kept the OPS. It's been sealed in a bag for 20 years. Not sure if it even runs anymore.

MTK

I remember one fellow from my club running the OPS 5 port gold head in an Arrow in the early 80's. It was FI, not RI. That was one terrific combo. Helped his son win the US Nats if I recall....(Advanced or Expert, don't remember which).

time907356

In 1988, a fellow won the Masters Nats with an OPS Super 60 in an arrow. I picked one up several years later, and clocked 16k rpm's with a zinger 11x7, Macs tuned pipe and header, and 10% Omega. One Zippy Engine!!

Yak13

My Feedback: (17)

I have a couple of RIRE engines and they are particular (dogs under 18K, beasts over 20K). I also have a Picco .80 FIRE that really performs! Almost as strong as a NR 91.

I would really like to see that setup on your small Mach design.

Now, to use the RIRE on a pattern plane... No problema! The only consideration would be to use a small prop. So the DF RIRE 60-80 on a 40 size pattern plane would work fine (9x9 prop @21,000 rpm). Just be sure to build it well.

dhal22

I have both of those but have never mounted them on a plane.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

The engine area design of the wood Arrow is ideally suited to such an engine. I've dabbled with the idea of one. A removable FG cowl design would also work well. I recently saw pictures of the Japanese using an OS VR 60 in a cowled classic at the internats in the 80's. It might have been a Naruke or Suzuki design - can't recall.

David

Pylonracr

I think a ducted fan engine would be a horrible choice for a classic pattern plane. This is just my opinion of course. The DF engines make their power at 20 - 23K, with no regard to midrange throttle, and are designed to idle at 6k or so. I run an OS91 and Webra 80 fan engine on prop planes and have fun with them, but I don't think a pattern plane would work for them. You need a really clean airframe to let the engine unload, and I don't think a pattern plane would work. I use specifically designed speed planes with very little frontal area and very thin wings designed for speed to let these engines run.

Scott

Yak13

My Feedback: (17)

I agree Scott. Maybe a 40 size Arrow would do the trick. It would be very fast!

Doxilia's 40 size Mach I would be a great option too, if the engine can be squeezed in.

Yak13

My Feedback: (17)

A few days ago I was able to escape work and go fly my old reliable and fast, Novarossi equipped Dirty Birdy. With many things in mind I got distracted for a second and the inevitable happened. The DB died like a true warrior, hitting the ground at 150 mph. I was doing a slow roll a few feet from the ground.

These classic pattern planes even crash better than anything else. Nothing is left, so they keep you focused (most of the time).