ZondaC12

hey, my friend has a lakehouse on schroon lake here in ny and has an old but fast electric boat and i want one too. i wont have too many chances to get up there this summer, but enough that i want a cheap boat to use in the lake. i found one called the Pro Boat Sundancer, for like $150. its RTR. http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=PRB2100 i need pretty much everything but the motor, batt's, charger (as in part of the boat itself). it reminds me alot of his boat, which is very simple, its like 13 yrs old, an MRP, nothing on it about what model. anyway its simple, just a very hollow hull, no extra stuff, a 550 direct drive to the prop, small msc and receiver, and this sundancer looks to be setup pretty much the same exact way, and i mean the stuff is in the same places, motor mount is a simple circled band that goes over the motor, screw on either side, and its like a sport-runabout/yacht style and i like that too, his boat is like half cabin cruiser-half racing boat. and i have this 6v motor i got out of a toro weedwacker from like 7 years ago, motor in fine condition, runs great, sounds great. anyway, i found this neat place called www.offshoreelectrics.com, and they have a ton of motors there, and i compared dimensions and this must be a 700. so im really excited cuz itll be mad powerful, and it would be awesome in a boat. i hooked a multimeter up to measure amps in the circuit and quickly touched the wires i hooked up to my 6 cell batt and the current jumped to 43 amps for a split second and back down to like 3. i think on that link i posted they mention the amperage of the esc it comes with, would that handle my 700? if not, back to what i said before, is there a kit boat out there for this price (preferably less) that has the hull, prop and drive system, esc, actually dont need reciver, i have a sportmaxx and i could get another traxxas 3 channel reciver and crystal and use my transmitter for both vehicles, and without motor? is this even a feasible project? is this too powerful? id like it to be a boat about that size, my friend's boat is that size and i like that size, and i think that would make it very fast with this motor, but im thinking in terms of like propeller walk, like it spins too fast and the back end moves to the side? do most rc boats have like a rudder/keel sorta thing thats fixed in a straight position so it could prevent propeller walk?

thx to all who help (and even bother to read this, im sorry i just like to be detailed)

pompebled

Hi Zonda!

Pfffff, that's a long read.....

Just judging by the size of the boat you mentioned (25inch) a 700 size motor is no problem,

BUT: this type of RTR boats have an interior designed for the 500-600 series motors, the larger 700 will not fit without considerable alterations.
If the boat you have in mind has a subsurface-drive (and it has), fitting a 700 motor means a minor rebuild: taking out motormount and reinforce the, hull with glass and epoxy resin, making a motormount for the 700, preferably with a new propshaft, buying 6-8 cells, an ESC to match....
Only to see the rather narrow hull turn over the first time you hit the "gas".....

Reading the article, the suplied radiogear does not really look the part, if the BEC does not work properly, why bother providing it?

Much more fun to run is the ABC Fighter 550, it has a surface drive (roostertail!) a similar 550 motor, but a much wider beam, which makes refitting it with your 700 motor not sooo very difficult, running on 6-8 cells should not be a problem.

All these hulls are ABS, so reinforcing may be required to prevent the boat from tearing itself apart with the powerfull 700.

I tuned a Fighter 550 for the son of a friend, and it ran great, until he forgot that the receiver batteries needed charging as well, subsequently he lost control and reduced the boats length by running it head on into a wall...

If you have more questions, let me know.

Jan.

ZondaC12

alright cool thanks, some good info.

i laughed when i read "rather narrow hull turn over" i can just see that, the boat spinning around, LOL.

but about the subsurface/surface piercing drive, is there disadvantages/advantages to each? im guessing from what u said subsurface drive will cause it to turn over? and about the fighter 550, all i can seem to find is a rtr version. is there also a kit or not?

thanks again!

Zonda

pompebled

Hi Zonda,

The 700 motors have a substantial torque indeed, I've seen my mono 2 (12 cells, 9,6V 700neodym motor, 45 propshop prop) making barrelrolls at full speed due to the torque of that motor, my racing "colleagues" didn't appreciate it, however...

In general a boat with a surface piercing drive is faster than the same boat with subsurface drive, also in general a subsurface driven boat will make narrower turns than a boat with a SPD (surface piercing drive).
Because of the steeper angle of the propshaft, the lifting properties of the prop will affect the boat more than a SPD.

The ABC Fighter 550 is only available as a kit, at least over here.

Several guys run the boat with a hot carmotor(watercooled!), a decent (and smaller) prop from the Graupner K-series (36-37,5mm) and replace the stock rudder(blade) with a wedge shaped aluminium rudder. It takes a very fast shuttertime to avoid blurring the picture when it tears by the camera.

Greetings, Jan.

ZondaC12

well i did manage to find one place that had it as a kit, it was abc-rc-hobby.com. i have a question though about the beam--this site said it has a 7 inch. beam. the sundancer actually has an 8 inch bea, according to horizon hobby. so wouldnt it be just fine? or is the fighter's hull flatter, and the sundancer like a deep vee? i also just dont care too much for how plain the fighter is, i dont think it looks good, and maybe this is stupid but i like that look, of the yacht/sport noat/cruiser thing, e.g. the sundancer, traxxas villian boats, etc. so i dont know about this. maybe i just need a bigger boat. maybe if sometime i could come across a villain that someone converted to single prop or something and that would work good for this.

but thanks a million for your advice, now i know other things to consider i didnt know before. i never gave thought to the possibility of the hull turning over[X(]

pompebled

Hi Zonda!

I think you've hit the nail on the head, the Fighter is a small Crackerbox and should not be driven with the ridiculous canopy provided with the kit, but with a retro deck with a V8 and the crew way in the rear.

But if you like the deep vee better, go with that one!
I would go for a refit with the 700 and SPD, to avoid the torque issue.

If you've the time and skill, scratchbuilding your own hull is another option.

Let me know how the story goes.

Greetings, Jan.

pompebled

Or wrap this around your 700 motor.

Add a deck to your liking (runabout).
I can mail you the plan if you like.

Jan.

ZondaC12

WHOA[X(] thats awesome: man thats gotta take some skillz to make that, that might be a little extreme for me.

i might see if i can do what you suggested about the deep vee one--make that an SPD. that sounds easy enough for me.

well, thanks again, this is just plans for "down-the-road" its still snowing here, got awhile to wait until spring im afraid [] man im sick of winter. but ill definitely look for this thread and update when i do actually get to this.

Zonda

pompebled

Extreme, not really, it takes a jigsaw, some plywood, glue, sandpaper, patience and a lot of time. The skills required you get doing it.
This plan was so basic, I built three other boats, before I trusted myself to start on this one.

Try building it in cardboard (scaled down) first gives you an idea of the work involved.
In the gallery are some building pictures of my current project, a 52" deep vee, powered by a 25cc Homelite.

My average to finish a boat like this (next to working and having a family) is about four years. If you count the hours I really worked on it, maybe two to three weeks, the setting of the glue and the drying of the paint takes up more time than the actual building.

Should you ever need the plan and building instructions, let me know.

BTW: building instructions, on a german forum a guy did the same thing you are planning: refitting a ABS hull with a 700 motor, reinforcing it with glass and epoxy resin. There are a lot of pictures in the thread, so (your) knowledge of the german language is not required....
Use the search function for: "Trimmung", on: www.rc-raceboats.de/forum.
The boat he refitted is a Carson Hydro 8 RTR.

Greetings, Jan.

ZondaC12

alright i think i found the right thread, it was titled "trimmung" and there were pics but they were attachments so you cant see them unless youre registered there

ZondaC12

oh one other thing--i forgot to mention it but that offshoreelectrics place had a boat i liked--the aquajet one. i was looking at the options and apparently it can hold up to a 775! but theres an option to get it as a kit (what i want) and with a 550 instead, and thats like $140!!! that would be perfect IMO. what do you think of it? maybe i could even email whoever runs that site and see if they could sell it to me without the motor, and id save even more $$.

pompebled

Hi Zonda,

I'm registered there, if you want the pictures, let me know.

The Cen Aqua Jet 775 is a nice boat indeed, the 700 in the set is another version than yours, it can run on up to 16 cells!
If you try that with your 6V 700, it will go very fast, for a very short time.....

On the other hand, if you can buy the boat without the 700 motor you can run your motor on 8 cells (watercooled!), thus saving money on cells and having a lighter boat, which runs longer (and probably just as fast).

Or you buy the 550 version, and order the hopup parts for the 700 version. (motormount, ESC, among other things)

If you do so, also get the rudder with the waterpickup (normally on the IC version), and a couple of spare flex couplings (they tend to wear out rather quickly, when you accelerate abruptly or hit something in the water) and, if you don't fancy winding it yourself, an aluminium cooling coil and an outlet.

I'm sure, you can work out some kind of deal with Steven Vaccaro.


Greetings, Jan.

P.S.: (having thought about it all afternoon) If you are willing to spend up to $140 on an ABS hull, you might also consider getting a REAL raceboat from Hopf, the Bavarian Master/manufacturer/suplier of just about every prizewinning boat in Europe, multiple champion himself, incredible fast boats at reasonable prices, and from time to time, unbeatable special offers.
And of course, all hulls hand lay up in epoxy resin (not that seaweed reinforced crap you sometimes encounter on eBay......)!

Take a look at www.hopf-modelltechnik.de in the shop you'll find all kinds of goodies, for instance the Gozilla XXL Set, a complete set of parts minus the radio gear, (ESC?) and batteries (which he can suplie too, ofcourse) for 129 Euro. Or the somewhat cheaper Sigma EVO Mono 2 (currently the fastest mono 2 around) for 119 Euro.
Running one of these boats will get your friend crying in your propspray and yourself shaking with adrenaline at the controlls....

I realize that the shipping costs could make it far too expensive, but there may be a way around that, at least partly, as the MHZ dealer in the US is considering (or at least was the last time we mailed) importing Hopf boats.
When I get home, I'll mail him to ask.

Needless to say, my son (Dutch mono 2 Champion 2002) and I (runner up) run several Hopf boats (among others).

ZondaC12

yeah i liked that carson hydro r8, but i could not find a reseller here in the u.s.

sounds like a good idea to me.

yep lol totally agree, actually i forgot to mention this motor has no cooling fan. which i was surprised at considering it was in an enclosed cover all around it, dont remember any vents on it, and having to spin the plastic string to cut weeds which did put a fair load on the motor, i wonder how it didnt overheat. [sm=confused.gif] so obviously definitely watercooled.

well then maybe ill get the 700 version if i cant get it w/o motor to make sure i got stuff that will handle the 700. but ill certainly ask steve if i can do w/o motor first.

thanks again man, you're a big help, also it seems you hang around this forum alot (electric boats-speed) by also the posts that say your SN on "last post" nice to have that kind of a person on a forum, knows about it all and shares that. i greatly appreciate it [sm=biggrin.gif]

catch you later

Zonda

pompebled

If you think cooling the can is not enough, I solder 2 cm long, 3mm brass or copper pipes, on the motor terminals, include them in the watercooling circuit (preferably after the ESC) and cool the brush holders (where most heat originates).
A cool motor performes better and lives longer.

Have a good weekend, Jan.

CsChuck14

My Feedback: (-1)

wouldnt a weedwaker motor be too big? ive never taken one out before. does anyone have any pics of them?
i bought an old super hawiia off e-bay, it came with 2 motors(i dont know what they are) i took them out and im about to put in 2 massive motors i mean beasts, like 2 beastly weedwaker motors. anyways, it will hold 2 motors i cant figure out which to do, put in about a 800 motor or 2 smaller motors, i would need a big esc that could hold 12 cells and 2 motors, does anyone know where i can find one, i also need motors. i also need a steering linkage system, anyone know where i can buy some of this stuff? thanks for the help. by the way, the motors spin the opposite way, is there an esc that will like reverse the polarity or something like that, or do i need 2 esc's. if anyone has any help or suggestions, or a different way for me to redo this boat. im basicly starting with a hull and non geared props and shafts, and building a electric boat that will haus butt! thanks for the help.

pompebled

Hi Chuck!

The weedwacker motor Zonda decribes, has the dimensions of a 700 series motor; 44mm in diameter and 60 to 66 mm long, depending on the model.

What size is the Super Hawai you bought?
What size motors did it come with?

In a two motor setup the motors need to run the opposite way, otherwise the propwalk will have the boat running in circles...

Take a look at Offshore electrics for ESC, the website is a couple of postings higher, Steven can help you with that, also on motor advice for your Super Hawaii.

Greetings, Jan.

ZondaC12

CsChuck youre probably thinking of 2-stroke gas weedwacker engines. those are more common, my mom didnt feel the need/want to have one of those, actually she HATES them, so she got a toro "cordless electric trimmer". she got a new, 12v one when the old one's battery finally died and she kind of wanted more power.

CsChuck14

My Feedback: (-1)

i see, those motors are huge. does offshore racing have a double reverse esc? when i took the motors out of the super hawiia i put them on a airboat i made

pompebled

Hi Chuck,

Take a look here, lots of info on the Super Hawaii.

http://www.marinerc.com/fastelectric...uperhawaii.htm

Having read it all, I still find hat replacing the horrible gears with a single 9,6V Neodym 700 motor, on 12 to 16 cells, direct drive is the way to go.
I had a Triton cat by Academy with a similar gearbox, the gearbox lasted about ten runs (with shamefull short running times, about 6 minutes, tops), the 550 motors (Amp eaters!) and the gears came out and I have better performance with a 700, direct drive.

The powerconsuming coupling / steering wore out very quickly too and was replaced by a normal propshaft and a separate rudder, gaining even more performance.

In general you do not need two ESC, if you use two motors, each driving a prop, a reverse is not advisable. (I pulled a powerboat under water in reverse once, due to a malfunction, the ESC was stuck in reverse, never saw the boat again, as electric motors run very well under water too, it must have travelled a long way under water. Even divers did not find it)

Take one ESC, suited for both motors, simple is better.

Greetings, Jan.

CsChuck14

My Feedback: (-1)

i will make it direct drive. how exactly woud i get the esc to run night with 2 motors, i dont have mone growing on trees in my front yard so need a cheap esc, does offshore electrics have that too? should i use what the rticle uses ad do 2 motors to one prop or 2 motors to 2 props?. ps do any of you drive your boats in the ocean if you do do you get any air? im on vacation now at the ocean, and cant wait to fix my boat

pompebled

Hi Chuck!

Here I have a problem; I do not know the Super Hawaii myself, only from pictures, the length of about 1 meter, suggests that a powerful drive system should be installed, yet the original kit comes with only two 500 series motors, powered by a 7,2 or 8,4 battery....

Replacing this with only one 9,6V 700 Neodym motor on 12-16 cells seems the way to go.

I think that using two of these motors will make the boat far to heavy (mainly the weight of the 24-32 cells required).

Our mono 2 competition boats (about 60 cm long stepped hull, RTR weight about 2,2 KG) run about 40-45 Kph with 12 cells and the 700 motor mentioned above, on a Graupner K45 prop.

On 16 cells and well setup 50 - 55 Kph should be possible on light choppy water.

For one motor the ESC should be able to handle 45A continuously (pay no attention to the ridiculous high numbers that the manufacturers put in their adds, such as 200A peak, most of the time that's the theoretical handling power handeling capacities of the Fets used, in ideal circumstances, not crammed tightly together on a circuitboard, the copper would burn off in no time under such loads...)
We use relatively cheap ESC for use in planes, they are lighter (and cheaper) than most "navy" adapted versions, most of them can be very simple made watercooled.

Saltwater running:

Make sure that everything is either stainless steel or bronze, every nut and bolt, if you missed one, the rust will tell you where it used to be....

Put your radio gear in a watertight box.

Tape the hatch, so spray won't get in, grease the shaft, so it does not leak.

Rinse the boat with sweet water after every run, especially the cooling system, not the next day, but right after you stop running for the day!
I can't emphasize enough how important this is.

I don't run my boats in salt water, because I like to enjoy them for a long time.
Eventually something will corrode and leave your boat uncontrollable speeding for the horizon, running head on in a wall, or leaving it dead on the water with the tide going out....

My advice is to contact Steven Vaccaro, regarding the motor(s) suitable for the Super Hawaii and the ESC to go with it.

www.offshoreelectrics.com

Let me know how it goes.

Greetings, Jan.

CsChuck14

My Feedback: (-1)

thanks for the help, im sorry to say but my boat is not a meter long, ita a runnoff its about 30 inches, but im going to put the motors for the regular super hawiia in it, it will be sick power. lol. im also thinking of putting in some traxxas titan motors in, do you know what the numbers mean, i know what turns are, what are like 600 700 750 motors, what does that mean? on offshore electronics the traxxas motor doest say what it is. how many turns are marine motors, usually?

pompebled

Hi Chuck!

Fewer turns mean higher revs and higher power consumption, keep this in mind when choosing a ESC.

The 500, 550, 600, 700, 750 refers to the dimensions of the can.

A 500 / 600 motor has a diameter of aprox. 36-38 mm, the length depends on the anchor used, it ranges from 50 - 65 mm. 2,3mm shaft.
A 700 motor is about 44 mm in diameter, length from 60 - 66 mm, 5mm shaft.

As you may have noticed, I am not a great fan of gears, significant loss of power/speed/running time, the noise and the sometimes appalling quality offered by the manufacturer, makes me a huge fan of direct drive.

Your boat length of 30 inches makes it big enough to consider the use of a 700 motor on 12 cells, as I mentioned a few posts up.

Ask Steven Vaccaro about the replacement 500 motors, from here it's very difficult to judge which one to take.

Greetings, Jan.

CsChuck14

My Feedback: (-1)

one motor might be enough, but as i said i want sick speed ,lol, 2 600 motors. yeaaaaaaaaaa

ZondaC12

hey pompebled,

i was looking at offshoreelectrics again and im worried about something. if this motor is a 700 6V, then i dont see how any of the options will work: the 775 version has a 12-14 cell 775 motor. it says esc is for 14 cell use. the only one for 6 cell is the 550 version, and that esc may not be fit for the current this draws, correct? or might it? what im wondering is: this motor has, on the end where the contacts to hook up wire are, a pale yellow plastic disc on that end where the contacts come out of, not just a metal end cap. and it has imprinted in it the mabuchi logo: Mmm, kind of looks like 3 7's next to each other, the second two are smaller, and theyre connected so you can see its an M. (look here youll see: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/english/) and the word Mabuchi. so this was indeed made by mabuchi, not some custom job (for example by toro maybe because toro makes the weedwacker) so of course this motor is again like 6 years old, if mabuchi's line of motors was the same, they dont make a 700, only a 775. now if you browse through their product finder (by application-->home appliances) youll find 775's, and they look much different than mine, they have a fan, four vents for the fan, mine has two and they are ovals not rectangles, so maybe an older version 775 from that time? but then again, the weedwacker WAS a 6v powered one, so i dont know. maybe thats how they prevented overheating, take a 14v motor and undervolt it? LOL i know im going way too into this but im trying to think of ways this can be a 775 because thats what im hpoing for! (oh also they dont have a sort of "old products listing" so that makes it even harder) if its a 700 im gonna have problems like i said before. maybe ill email mabuchi a picture of my motor and see what they think