jeffrey25

Anybody own this Model? Let me know what you think of it? I might be picking up one soon in Hong Kong. Owners reviews!

Thanks!

jeff[>:]

hellomynameisdookie

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3071845/tm.htm

There are some other good threads out there...do a search for "twin storm" and set some time aside to read!

For the money, it's a good boat. I'd highly reccomend it over the Villian EX.

13BT

for the price....GREAT BOAT!

no need to modify it really if you want to just have a fun time at the pond. just run it on 2 x 7 cells for fast, hassle free fun.

properchopper

I'm running my Twinstorm 800 on 2x6 cells into Titan 23 t fancooled motors using a 45x1.4 graupner prop. motors stay under 100 degrees F. Does the 2x 7cell batteries get your motors hot ? I'm thinking of going 2x7 cells for more speed but don't want to melt anything.

Tony

jeffrey25

Tony,

Are the Titans you put the same as the ones in the Villain Ex? What kind of re-wiring did you have to do?

Thanks![8D]

properchopper

The motors are the same as in the villain EX. My first pair got me over 50 runs with 2 3300 mah packs until they got tired. They wire in the same as the stock motors, only on my second set I had to install an extra capacitor across the + and - terminals to overcome some glitching. These motors are bulletproof, and with the internal fans they remain cool [ I have made a scoop for the cabin top which is internally ducted to deliver some cool air to the motors] as well as the stock cooling tubes. The 45mmX1.4 prop gives more acceleration and top speed, requiring turn fins to reduce hopping in full-speed turns. I've also scrapped the ball/cup u-joint which wears fast, is noisy, and sucks power. I used a graupner u-joint 1/8 " to 4 mm and drilled the 1/8 " side to 4mm, carefully aligned it with the outdrive pivot with small spacers and shims and what a difference ! No noise, vibration, and faster servo response.

I'd like to know how 7-cell packs behave in this application; anyone out there done this ?

Tony

hellomynameisdookie

Proper, what kind of increase did you see with the Titans over the stock Twin Storm motors? Is it a worthwhile upgrage over the stockers?

properchopper

Totally worth it ! The motors were only 22 dollars each at the LHS ; probably good for 1-2 mph with stock 42 X 1.2 prop but with the graupner carbon fibre 45 X 1.4 prop 3-4 mph total. Also running full speed until pack dump [ 6-8 minutes ] they never go over 100 degrees F. My last set gave me over 50 runs. I've tried 19 turn Kyosho AF36L pro motors I special ordered from Tower and they completely melted on the second run. Until I can afford to go brushless I'm using the Titans as "workhorse" motors while sorting out turn fin sizes to keep from bouncing in the turns. The biggest improvement came from installing the graupner u-joint I got from OE.
Also, I'm lubing the gears with a mixture of 140 wt. automotive gear lube mixed with powdered graphite; it really quiets and smooths those drive gears! BTW, what's your opinion of going to 7-cell packs ?

Tony

13BT

7 cells supply extra voltage and therefore extra RPM. and i dont think i need to tell you the downside of running motors at higher RPM!

all i can suggest is run it for maybe 30 seconds at a time and monitor temps.

i use 7 cells all the time with the stock motors with no problems at all.

hellomynameisdookie

The Titans can handle the 7 cell packs, just keep them watercooled. I'm not sure what the TwinStorm electronics can handle though...can the esc handle 14 cells (16.8v)? If it can, I'd give it a shot. Just do like 13BT said, bring it in and check temps. I'd run it for a minute, max, and then bring it in. The more stop and go you do, the faster it'll heat up.

13BT

the label on the ESC says it can indeed handle up to 16.8V. thats why i use it at that voltage but im reluctant to go up to 8 cells.

properchopper

Thanks for the input, guys. Much appreciated. Next payday I'm going to order some 7-cell packs & I'll let you know the results. I'm going to convert my fleet to deans connectors [ 3 boats, 2 dual and one single charger and lots of batteries]. If I don't burn the house down on "soldering day", I'll be happy.

Tony" Tune for maximum smoke ! "

andy1499

I just read a good review of the Twin Storm in RC Boat Modeler Magazine... they loved it--the only 2 negatives I saw in the review were the boats handling when the rudder is hard over (only in that situation) and the decals--something about the clear parts yellowing. Other than that, they gave it great reviews. It makes me want to get one for sure. Perhaps in a bit.

Andy

13BT

avoid full throttle turns, simple. its a sport boat and i use mine for a leisurely blast around the river or pond. im not trying to break any lap records so theres no need for full speed turns.

its the best hassle free boat ive ever owned. faster than my hydro, and doesnt heat up as much as my kyosho viper.
speaking of which... what setup do you guys recommend for my viper? i think its got a 15T in there at the moment (label has rubbed off the can), and its running way too hot on 8 cells.
what are my options? I still want it to be fun (fast). All modest (cheap) mods considered. Its a cheap boat so Im not going to spend heaps on it!
thanks in advance

radio rookie

I have ran my twin storm on 7 and 8 cell packs and a 42mm dia prop. WOW!

The ESC seems to be able to take it. However I have burnt my brushes on 2X 8 cells after five runs. It was well worth it especially being able to kick some nitro boat butt.

The good thing is that the ESC and coils can take it but not the brushes. Pity that the stock motor is near impossible to replace the brushes.

I think it's the way the water cool is setup as you will notice that the intake first goes to the ESC and then to one motor and then to the other. The last motor would then have less cooling due to the heat collected from the ESC and one of the motors. I am planning to mod the cooling system by using a much longer coil (coil the entire lenght of the motor except where the vents are) being individually fed by it's own pick up. I am also running my twinstorm in the tropics so the ambient temperature is much higher (28 to 30 deg C).

The next mod that I am planning is to include air scoops to draw cooler air into the motor compartment and not use the clear motor compartment hatch.

Just waiting for my replacement motors to have another blast!

radio rookie

The twinstorm represents one of the best bang for the buck for an out of the box performer.

I have run it with 2X7 cell packs and with a 42mm dia prop it eats 15 sized glow boats for lunch. On a stock setup with 2X7 cells, it's even beaten the Stock Kyosho Lamboghini CAT with a 21 engine.

There are a few quirks about the twinstorm that needs to be addressed. One of it is the water cool system which runs in series from the ESC to both motors causing one of the motors to run hotter. It's best to have individual water pickups for each motor. The other is the motor hatch which traps hot air needs to be removed for better air circulation.

So far running on 2X7 cell packs dont seem to cause much problems except that the motors are quite hot due to the water cooling system. I have also ran my twinstorm on 2X8 cell packs and man this baby is a blast to drive. I have since burnt the brushes one one of the motor and am awaiting the AP36L pro motors and matching gear set. From what I can see, the ESC seems to be able to take 2X8 Cells. BTW I am using the Pansan 3600mah Sub-C packs with Deans connectors.

The hull design is excellent and by looking at how it rides she only begs for a more powerful set up. Brushless maybe? Hmmmmm!

properchopper

Glad to hear from another Twinstorm owner. I totally agree with the cooling observations; I use one Gundert pickup for each motor and a modified propwash for the speed control. In addition, I made an internally ducted scoop to the motors with cooling fans blowing on each motor: go to rcflix for detailed pictures. In my quest for speed, I've charbroiled the stock Perfex speed control and the AF36 pro motors [ using the stock gearing]. The AF36 motors need to be COOLED. ! Also, turn fins are a must. My current setup uses 2X7 cells, a Jeti 600 speed control [ great speed control, I highly recommend this for any motor & battery upgrades ], 48x 1.4 CF prop, and will test my new, " top secret " brushed motors this week. [ Stay tuned for test results]. BTW, MHZusa has some nice airscoops for the cabin top; check 'em out.
Twinstorm owners : Let's keep this thread active and share our info ; 30 mph could be a reality in the near future !

Tony
" Tune for Maximum Smoke "[sm=drowning.gif]

radio rookie

properchopper,

You are right on the dollar on the cooling mods. The 48X1.4 might be a tad too big unless you go for the hopup gear / pinon set. This reduces the ratio to 1.6 instead of 1.4 on the stock.

In fact on a 42X1.4 it already very fast. What I have done was to pace with a fellow twinstorm owner whom I lent my 2X8 cell pack to test on the stock set up. It was much slower than my twinstorm on the 42 even with a 2X7cell setup.

The prop really made the difference. Oh yes I have also sharpened the rudder fin which also helps alot.

Agreed that turn fins are becoming essential at these speeds. I am (rather was before I nuked my stock motor) still running without turn fins and need to slowdown to turn and turning at full bore now requires a much larger radius.

One problem I noticed with the 42 prop was that there is significant torque which needs some rudder correction input to keep a straight couse. It usually want to veer to the left.

In the quest to keep things cool, I have also built a battery cooler to cool the packs down after a run. It just a cheap box built out of coro sheets with two PC cooler fans that takes power from an old battery pack.
I found this to be pretty useful for cooling Lipo and NimH packs after a session.

I am pretty sure the twinstorm WILL break the 30mph barrier. It getting pretty close now and I am Hot (literally) on the chase!

I am certainly gonna check out your airscoop mods. The idea with the air duct is pretty neat. Now if you really want to cool things further down, scatch build a radiator mounted in the air duct to pre-cool the intake water before it gets to the motors! I am still looking at other cooling schemes to radically cool things down. One of it is perhaps to use water-mist sprayed into the motor compartment to absorb excess heat in the compartment. The water mist is removed thorugh the action of the airscoop. The water mist could be perhaps fed via the ESC's dedicated water intake which should have sufficient pressure. Now to look for the nozzle. The downside would be increased humidity in the motor compartment which could result in corrossion but what the heck, I rather have a cooler rusty motor than a dead shiny one.

Oh yes do post the results of your "secret" project.

properchopper

Thanks for the info ! If we all share our trials and errors we can come up with the optimum setup. For example, I've been hesitant to go to 2x8cells, but since you've done that I'll build some tonight for my tests tomorrow, particularly since my Jeti600 can handle up to 30 cells. Be carefull with the new motors; mine [AF36 Pro] got charbroiled on 2x6 cells with stock gearing and prop ; one thing to pay serious attention to : make sure the motor gears are WELL secured to the motor shaft. I use Blue Loctite on the setscrew AND on the shaft ; I've twice burned up a motor when the drive gear became loose on one motor and the other one did all the work, overheated and let out the dreaded smoke.
I haven't opted for the lower gearing as yet so I can keep the rev's up. In fact with the 1.4 gearset, Titans and a 48x1.4 prop the motors never got over 113 F. The downside is high amp draw and short runtime { @ 5 minutes]. I actually am thinking, if my new motors work out, of trying a 1.2 ratio gearset from my carribean cruiser if they line up, in the quest for the smokeless 30 mph barrier !
About your torque-steer problem; I've never experienced that ; I'd check the play on the steering linkage & servo mounting screws , also the rudder is fairly flexible. I'm running some large turn fins and, since they act as "straight-ahead rudders" that could be why my boat launches in a straight line ; also the fins allow turns with substantially reduced turn-antics, although they create drag at top speed.
Your cooling radiator and misting ideas are very creative; good luck there. BTW, I strongly suggest converting the "ball-and-cup" u-joint, which wears out fast, vibrates and sucks power, to the modified Graupner u-joint. It takes some fiddling with, but is well worth it. Let me know if you get one and I'll provide details on how to do it, It's not hard to do.
I'm going to sharpen up the leading edge of my rudder, thanks for that tip. If it doesn't rain tomorrow, I'm going to run my new motors, or Thursday the latest & I'll post my results.

Tony
" Tune for Maximum Smoke "[sm=drowning.gif]

radio rookie

Properchopper,

Since you already have your cooling mods done, I am pretty sure the motors will hold up on 2X8. I was running 2X8 without the cooling mods at that time. The only thing to look out for on a 2X8 with 48X1.4 might be overheating the battery cables. I had that on mine, melting the insulation. I have since then changed to heavier gauged cables (14AWG).

You might also want to solder the motor cables direct or via a deans. The Jap connectors appear to also have some resistance which in turn will draw unnecessary amps evident by them being pretty hot after a good run!

I am not sure how the AP36L will perform on 2X8 but I would think that for safety reasons, I plan to use the stock prop first to have a couple of runs to see how things heats up. Once proven that the AP36L could survive the 2X8, then prop up but only make short runs and see.

Your suggestion for using a 2:1 gear reduction is a great idea. This will certainly shave the amps off giving you a much cooler run. I would think that the Kyosho hop up 1.6:1 gear wont really help much since is only a 0.2 reduction over the stock.

I checked out your air scoop mods and it's pretty neat. I did the same but installed the airscoop on the deck since my Twinstorm is currently in "dry dock" for painting and motor replacement.

The scoop was fashioned out of a T-Rex heli canopy. I have also introduced an exhaust just behind the cockpit at the depression area and included a mesh. This I would think would provide an unrestricted airflow. It's likely that I will attempt to duct the air intake lower to help with the hot air displacement. Gota check this with the 2X8 cell packs first to see if I have enough space fit and remove packs. As it stands it's already pretty tricky to fit the packs in.

Your cooling fan mod is brilliant. I am tempted to try this too. Gotta yank a couple of cooling fans from my old defunct video card.

Oh yes another cooling mod could be to strap some aluminum tubes to the metal motor mount. I did notice that the metal motor mounts do tend to also heat up due to the heat transfer from the motor end bells. Perhaps the mount plate adjacent to the battery packs may be a good place to install a water cooling coil too. This is just an array of tubes glued or maybe brazed (if copper is available) to the metal mount and interconnected with tubing and fed by the ESC's watercool circuit.

Maybe this might negate the need for the water mist system suggested earlier.

The Graupner U-Joint mod is in the works. I saw the same setup on the Traxxas Nitro Vee yesterday. This will be done later.

Thanks for the tip and lets break the 30mph barrier this year!

Tugster

I just got a large package from OE and spent a couple of evenings sorting things out I don’t have a lot of time before the pond freezes so I fitted the Titan motors, changed the connectors to deans, modified the battery trays to take 7 cell packs and fitted the 48mm prop. Cooling will have to wait but I changed the water outlet for a Prather and will fit a larger brass pick up pipe soon. I didn’t want to fit the hull water pickups that I was planning to feed the motors with since the added drag will loose speed and that would defeat the object of the exercise. Ill look more closely at cooling over the winter as it will be more important when the warmer weather comes. I ran it with 7 cell GP3700 packs yesterday and all I can saw is WOW[sm=spinnyeyes.gif] I haven’t thrown the GPS into the boat yet but Id say it was at least 20% faster than before and run time was about 9 mins, 7 flat out and 2 with slightly reduced speed. When running for the last 2 mins the boat was as quick as it was flat out in stock form. If it’s not doing 30 Ill eat my shorts
So Id say I was totally happy with the speed but the handling is a different issue, turning as speeds that previously would have been no problem resulted in spin city. I assume that the extra weight of the Titan motors and extra two cells has screwed the balance of the hull. Can any stock Twin Storm owners tell me where the balance point is with batteries installed? Ill see if I can move things around to get it better balanced before I start screwing with the trim. I have a couple of turn fins waiting to be fitted but Id rather get it turning as well as it can before adding them. Any other owners had the same problems after adding cells or larger motors?

properchopper

Hi Tugster,

Glad to hear of your progress. My efforts chasing the elusive "T3" [ Team Twinstorm Thirty mph ] closely follows yours. My last run with my "new" motors didn't work as anticipated[ I'm not purposely being elusive about these motors; it's just that I've been given the opportunity to try some motors not currently readily available]. I beleive that my problem also involves balancing the cg. I made some 8-cell paks the "long" way, and with 4, 1.5 volt AA's in front of the gears to power my cooling fans the boat became nose heavy, I think. Also on run day the water was like glass. and with the Twinstorm's extra long hull the boat kinda "stuck" to the water. I beleive a light chop helps the hull break loose and reduce drag. I've moved the paks back and moved the batts for the fan to the radio compartment and will try again. The balance point is now lined up with the two front motor mount-to-hull screws. Will run again this week and let 'ya know what goes. BTW, I don't think the gundert water pickups create any noticable drag and the extra cooling benefit is well worth it. I also drilled the motor mounts to let in/out some airflow. Turn fins are another story ; without them my Storm will hook and go backwards in full throttle turns but when installed they do create drag and scrub speed. I'm trying to design a technique to have the fins retracted for straightaways and individually deploy for turns ; wouldn't that be sweet ! Don't hold your breath, that will be a "some day" project.
Keep up the good work & tell me how 'them shorts taste !

Tony , "T3" hopefull

" Tune for Maximum Smoke "

Antony Poon

I have been using Twinstorm since early this year. I tried the optional motor, the 19 Turns but it did not work well. It will melt right away unless you also use the "motor brush coolers" as suggested by Kyosho. Nonetheless, it did not run very fast at original gear 1.4. So I added the V top on both the 19T and it ran a little faster (note that I must also used an iron tube on top of the V-top for brush cooling). One motor got killed after 5 packs (groups) of batteries.

I am now using the Novak brushless motor (14 cells) [HV-Maxx]. It went very well but the gear ratio must be changed. You need 2.5 to get the speed but 3.5 will get the run time. Also, I got smashed the 48 pitch spur(s) if I used full speed to make sharp turns. I will try back the 32 pitch today. In regards of the Novak, you must add water cooling functions on the ESC or it will be too hot. You can try the TRAXX?(spelling) ESC cooling from Towerhobbies.

By the way, in sharp turns, you must need the LL size turn fin and adjust to 120 degress for turns. Also, U-joints are a must too. Good luck! Antony

radio rookie

Propperchopper,

I finally got all my stuff for the upgrade and started a major overhaul exercise. Here’s the lowdown on what I have done which explains my absence from the thread for so long.

Stern drive Propshaft
I followed your advice to fit the Graupner 4mm dia universal coupling. I took a different route on the prop shaft mod by grinding down the spacer on the shaft and then reversed it and cut set screw slots in to enable the universal coupling pivot point line up with the rudder pivot as best as it’s physically possible. Anyway this is a temporary mod while awaiting the Raptor 90 flybar that I am going to use as a new shaft which I am planning to cut a screw thread. That was a fair bit of grinding work done there. Very nice and smooth. Still thinking of a practical way to add a bearing on the stern tube.

Hull
Had the hull painted by a professional car painter after royally screwing up attempting to do it myself (doh!). Lesson learnt…note to self…you need professionals to get professional results! Looks brand spanking new and a heck a lot better than stock! Ferrari Red, get the picture? Still cant decide on the trim scheme yet!

Motor & Transmission unit
Plunked in a couple of Graupner Speed 600 BB Turbos 12V and soldered 14AWG cables in parallel to the Jeti 600 Navy ESC. The Jeti is wired in to 2X8 packs in series to get 19.2V (Yup 19.2V, I must be out of my mind!). Installed oversized copper tubes wrapped the full length of the motors and had the plumbing with separate cooling circuits. On remounting the motor and transmission unit, I have offset the unit about 10mm forward of the existing position to avoid having to cutdown the prop shaft and stern tube due to the Graupner universal coupling or having to fabricate spacers for the rudder mount assembly. I kind of thought that that would be a simpler mod than cutting the tube and shaft.

Electronics
Replaced the stock RX with a Futaba so that I could use a common TX. Also replaced the ESC with a Jeti 600 Navy (70A) and included a battery for the RX since the Jeti is a non-BEC ESC.

Plumbing System
Replaced all the stock tubes with oversized copper tubes and fabricated a Tee coupling to split the water supply to both motors. Also drilled out the stock pick-up to enlarge the pickup diameter to the max and cut a much larger chamfer angle at the intake. After reading the threads, it made sense not to go twin pickup due to the drag penalties so I will try single for now and see if still fry my drive unit.

Prop
I made a booboo on declaring my prop size in the earlier threads. It was not 42 but 46X1.4. Sorry. I am retaining the 46 on the initial test runs but have a polished (thanks to a good buddy of mine, Malaysianflyer) metal 45x1.4 prop on standby to run some comparative test.

Ventilation
Included airscoop and exhaust as per described in the earlier threads.

Initial dry test this morning with fully charged packs seems to indicate that the motors could take the extra voltage. The motors spools up smoothly and the whole drive unit runs surprising quieter and smoother than stock. I am sure water trial would be a different ball game all together. Having half a mind to prop down to the stock one for the first run and see if I have a smoker or not!

Cant wait for the weekend to do water trails. Keeping my fingers crossed and hope not to update you guys with any horror stories of nuked motors. Wish me luck!

properchopper

Hi Radio Rookie ! Good to hear from you, the boat sounds like it's ready to rock. I got lots of new info for you; my progress closely parallels yours but I got to get to work now, I'll compose a detailed reply tonight if time allows.

Tony