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Unofficial "NQD" Tear into Jetboat Thread

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Old 10-28-2012, 07:46 AM
  #3101
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Hey guys,

First, thanks to SkR8Pn for sending me a pm.

I have had a lot of electric boats and I have done many mods successfully, but this jet boat is very alien to me. I reallly need to ask some questions.

I'm not sure what I really need to do. I mean, what mods does this boat really need to run decent without water coming into it.

1. What is the bearing mod for and where does the bearing go? I know the bearing has less resistance and will help the electronics run cooler, but does it also help keep the water out?
2. What is the sleeve mod and what is it for?
3. What's wrong with the stock shaft?
4. What is wrong with the stock coupler?

Thanks in advance for any help and remember pictures say a 1000 words[8D]
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:00 AM
  #3102
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Hi everybody

Yesterday I ordered a NQD jet pump at Ebay and planning on putting it in a crackerbox.
I dont know if the hull is right for it nor do I know what length this hull shouldt be. I will build this cracker from scratch, so I can adjust the size of the building plans if needed. I know that the hull of the jet sprint/Tear into is about 44cm in length. I'm planning on using a watercooled 3200KV on 3s.
Now I have a few small question:

1. Can I build a cracker that's about 50cm in length max and use it with that setup ?
2. Can anybody tel me the exact diameter of the rim(?) of the nozzle ? Not the rudder nozzle but the part were the screws go in.
3. the exact height of the jet, without the bottompart. Basicly the red and green lines



That way I can determin the minimum height of the transom thus the scale of the cracker.

I hope I have made myself understandable for you guys
Thanks a lot for all the tips and trics so far.

Big salute from Holland.

Mick


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Old 10-28-2012, 11:58 AM
  #3103
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: spektrumFlux

do kindly correct me if my understanding is incorrect for the following...
suggested motor kv for each types of Lipo.
2S : 3900~4450 kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
3S : 2900~3600 kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
4S : 2600~ kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
2S*3900 kv = 7.4*3900 = 28860 rpm
3S*3900 kv = 11.1*3900 = 43290 rpm (is it too high rpm to cause motor overheat rapidly)
what is the ideal rpm range for motor?
Correct with your calculations, you've got the KV right What I think you might be forgetting, is the theoretical value - real world descrephancies
You should allow for about 20% loss in RPM

So, 3900 x 11.1 x 0.80 = 34.632RPM
In my oppinion, the 3900KV motor that I have in my current boat, is a bit too fast, and asa such, I've tuned the "punch" with which it comes on, about 20% down...

The new motor I found, should be right in the sweet spot RPM wise, with a bit more torque

Quote:
ORIGINAL: spektrumFlux
comparing Inrunner 4400kv vs Outrunner 4400kv motor, Outrunner will have more torque?
what is the criteria to choose between Inrunner and Outrunner motor?

Outrunner has more weight turning at a larger circle, hence it will always have more torque, comparing same specs to an in-runner
I don't have any experience with an outrunner, although I'd love to try one out sometime

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Wheelnut
1. What is the bearing mod for and where does the bearing go? I know the bearing has less resistance and will help the electronics run cooler, but does it also help keep the water out?
2. What is the sleeve mod and what is it for?
3. What's wrong with the stock shaft?
4. What is wrong with the stock coupler?

Thanks in advance for any help and remember pictures say a 1000 words[8D]
Hey mate,

I did this exact sleeve mod, with pics on this page or the one before?!? In order to see the picture worth a 1000 words, you must also open your eyes LMAO I had to mate... hahaha

1. Bearing mod is a new-ish mod, only done a few pages back. It replaces the rubber grommit with a solid bearing, that supports the shaft a bit more than a rubber grommet. It does the same job, keep the grease in the shaft bore, to prevent water coming into your boat
2. The sleve mod ads a pipe into the original drive shaft hole, which is just drilled through the plastic of the jet drive. With vibration and what not, this hole has a tendency to get worn a lot, allowing the shaft to vibrate. The widened shaft hole allows more water into your boat, and the vibrations gives very bad thrust out of the jet drive.
ADDITIONALLY, the bigger hole, sucks air out of your hull, into the jet drive, and causes your prop to loose drive and prime... bloody annoying
With the sleve in place, you can glue in a longer copper pipe, which not only assists a lot with wear and tear, it also stabilized the drive shaft, giving A LOT less vibration
3. Nothing really, but in my case, I need one that is perhaps another 2-3 mm longer, so that it fits better with my coupler
4. Again nothing, you have to drill yours, and it's made from aluminium. I get a brass one, as it's stronger, and already drilled perfectly

I hope that helps, I'm off to eBay to make the order for all the new parts

Cheers
Martin
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:14 PM
  #3104
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Soepahsonic

Hi everybody

Yesterday I ordered a NQD jet pump at Ebay and planning on putting it in a crackerbox.
I dont know if the hull is right for it nor do I know what length this hull shouldt be. I will build this cracker from scratch, so I can adjust the size of the building plans if needed. I know that the hull of the jet sprint/Tear into is about 44cm in length. I'm planning on using a watercooled 3200KV on 3s.
Now I have a few small question:

1. Can I build a cracker that's about 50cm in length max and use it with that setup ?
2. Can anybody tel me the exact diameter of the rim(?) of the nozzle ? Not the rudder nozzle but the part were the screws go in.
3. the exact height of the jet, without the bottompart. Basicly the red and green lines



That way I can determin the minimum height of the transom thus the scale of the cracker.

I hope I have made myself understandable for you guys
Thanks a lot for all the tips and trics so far.

Big salute from Holland.

Mick


Hi Mick,

Can't help with the crackerbox dimensions

Red line = 34.5mm
Green line is just under 32mm, I measured off of 3 different stator housings and they ranged from 31.5 to 31.75....lol

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:58 PM
  #3105
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Wheelnut

Hey guys,

First, thanks to SkR8Pn for sending me a pm.

I have had a lot of electric boats and I have done many mods successfully, but this jet boat is very alien to me. I reallly need to ask some questions.

I'm not sure what I really need to do. I mean, what mods does this boat really need to run decent without water coming into it.

1. What is the bearing mod for and where does the bearing go? I know the bearing has less resistance and will help the electronics run cooler, but does it also help keep the water out?
2. What is the sleeve mod and what is it for?
3. What's wrong with the stock shaft?
4. What is wrong with the stock coupler?

Thanks in advance for any help and remember pictures say a 1000 words[8D]
inboxed again....lol

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Old 10-28-2012, 04:02 PM
  #3106
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Thanks man !

That was really fast.
I have the dimensions of the cracker. Now I know I need at least 4 cm transom height. I scale the rest of the buildingplans accordingly to the transom.
If you like the crackerbox, you can downloadthe plansat powerpete.20megsfree.com/photo4.html

Again, thanks alot

Mick
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:22 PM
  #3107
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Soepahsonic

Thanks man !

That was really fast.
I have the dimensions of the cracker. Now I know I need at least 4 cm transom height. I scale the rest of the buildingplans accordingly to the transom.
If you like the crackerbox, you can downloadthe plansat powerpete.20megsfree.com/photo4.html

Again, thanks alot

Mick
No worries Mick,

Thanks for the link... Now i know what a Cracker box is....

If you get a chance, do a build thread. It would be great to see what you come up with!

Ja

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:35 PM
  #3108
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great thanks for the explanation. :-)

what is the ideal operating rpm for Motor (Inrunner/Outrunner)?
when I browse thru HobbyKing Boat motor, all the motors listed are Inrunner, so does it mean Outrunner is not suitable for boat usage?
I notice those boat like Proboat ShockWave is using 1500kv motor on 3S Lipo, I thought we need like at least 4S Lipo to drive such lower kv motor?

meanwhile how does the number of poles on the motor affect the selection?

Thanks.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: seehuusen

Quote:
ORIGINAL: spektrumFlux

do kindly correct me if my understanding is incorrect for the following...
suggested motor kv for each types of Lipo.
2S : 3900~4450 kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
3S : 2900~3600 kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
4S : 2600~ kv Inrunner/Outrunner Motor
2S*3900 kv = 7.4*3900 = 28860 rpm
3S*3900 kv = 11.1*3900 = 43290 rpm (is it too high rpm to cause motor overheat rapidly)
what is the ideal rpm range for motor?
Correct with your calculations, you've got the KV right What I think you might be forgetting, is the theoretical value - real world descrephancies
You should allow for about 20% loss in RPM

So, 3900 x 11.1 x 0.80 = 34.632RPM
In my oppinion, the 3900KV motor that I have in my current boat, is a bit too fast, and asa such, I've tuned the "punch" with which it comes on, about 20% down...

The new motor I found, should be right in the sweet spot RPM wise, with a bit more torque

Quote:
ORIGINAL: spektrumFlux
comparing Inrunner 4400kv vs Outrunner 4400kv motor, Outrunner will have more torque?
what is the criteria to choose between Inrunner and Outrunner motor?

Outrunner has more weight turning at a larger circle, hence it will always have more torque, comparing same specs to an in-runner
I don't have any experience with an outrunner, although I'd love to try one out sometime

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Old 10-30-2012, 06:53 PM
  #3109
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Anyone know a good place to off load these boats? I have two, one new in a box never opened that was shipped to me stock and the other with new esc, motor, and servo that was not setup.
Robert
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:50 PM
  #3110
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would skr8pn be ondabeach by any chance?
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:54 PM
  #3111
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: swervyn

would skr8pn be ondabeach by any chance?
Lol your the second person to say that... That bloke is near you fella's i think.. I'm Northside Brisbane.

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Old 10-30-2012, 11:07 PM
  #3112
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Lol, Taswegian here so long way from me! Your couplers looked very familiar is all. Anyone had any experience dealing with him or buying any of his stuff? am seriously thinking of putting all my running gear in a new hull (as I have managed to butcher 2 hulls , so far!)& for the $10 or so extra than a new nqd, itwill save me the cutting out hassle plus the deck & hull (i assume) is seperated which will make life easier to fit out. Plus it actually looks pretty good stuff! really like his roll bar set up
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:39 PM
  #3113
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: swervyn

Lol, Taswegian here so long way from me! Your couplers looked very familiar is all. Anyone had any experience dealing with him or buying any of his stuff? am seriously thinking of putting all my running gear in a new hull (as I have managed to butcher 2 hulls , so far!)& for the $10 or so extra than a new nqd, itwill save me the cutting out hassle plus the deck & hull (i assume) is seperated which will make life easier to fit out. Plus it actually looks pretty good stuff! really like his roll bar set up
Lol, yeh thats bit off on where i thought you were. My couplers are made from blank 6061 and can be balanced. The other ones are re drill stock couplers from the nqd,

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Old 10-31-2012, 12:42 PM
  #3114
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hehehe, it was the grille pieces that got my attention

The blank hull, in clear plastic, would be great to try out
Has anyone seen the non-jet version, e.g. blanked out jet drive, using a rudder/ flex-shaft/ prop setup?? Pretty bloody quickQ

[quote]ORIGINAL: SkR8Pn


Quote:
ORIGINAL: swervyn

would skr8pn be ondabeach by any chance?
Lol your the second person to say that... That bloke is near you fella's i think.. I'm Northside Brisbane.


[/quot
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:11 PM
  #3115
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found the video

and the second video it's faster, and the burns out

Pretty fast boat compared to the old jet drive
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:43 PM
  #3116
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: seehuusen

found the video

and the second video it's faster, and the burns out

Pretty fast boat compared to the old jet drive

Lol, first time i saw that style grate was back in 09, i think it was a canadian (aye) that did it. It was a really sweet sprint..

Man thats quick with a prop..... notice the jetdrive with a rescue bar going to save it.....lol cool vids

Started repairing my hull. Glued all the cracks, thought i only had one.....found seven lol. The pic makes it look new again but in person.... well, i can think of a four letter word to describe it. Now onto the cage.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:22 PM
  #3117
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WOOOT WOOOT!!! Get the boat ready so we can take it out for a bash Anyone else in the Brisbane area?

nice cage mate! What did you make it out of? I assume you just melted the length, bent them, and screwed in the separation pieces?
that prop converted boat screams!
It goes to show how dreadfully in-efficient the jet drives are... but half the fun with the jet driven boats are to go where other boats can't...
I personally wouldn't make this conversion, as I think a v-hull boat needs a deeper V than the tear into has(but it works great for the jet boat scenario)
I've purchased another NQD boat to modify for speed, the 757 High Wind (or one of the many other names this boat is known by )
Should be fun!
Cheers
Martin
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:53 PM
  #3118
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parts have started to arrive for my new Jet Boat build
also, I thought I'd ask... After about 6 months of torturing my LIPOs in the tear into, 2 have burst (cheaper ones, granted)!!
The 2200mah Nano-Tech takes about 1800mah most of the time now, although I have setup cut off power on my ESC, so I might not be running them as low as I used to... I don't get the "FULL" sign anymore when balance charging them, although they still take the same amount of mAh...
1) Would the lower amount of mah charged up, be due to not using quite as much when running?
2) Should I assume that the damage to the cheaper batteries was done a long time ago? when I ran my boat without cutoff? (one actually burst before I set the cut-off voltage up)
3) Is it my charger that is crap, and I need to go get a good one? (I'm running an Extreme-Racing R-605, pretty much the same as a Turnigy Accucel-6)
4) Is the battery problem, on cheaper ones, because I've got a massive 120amp ESC, which feeds the motor pretty much as many amps as it can take... And so the discharge C rating is impeeding the flow of electricity, thus damaging the battery (same as chargin a 1C battery at 10C, just the other way aroung)??
Thanks for your input
Martin
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:16 PM
  #3119
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FYI,
This boat is in stock
http://www.xenonproject.com/rc-boats...jet-p-291.html
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:53 AM
  #3120
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: seehuusen

parts have started to arrive for my new Jet Boat build
also, I thought I'd ask... After about 6 months of torturing my LIPOs in the tear into, 2 have burst (cheaper ones, granted)!!
The 2200mah Nano-Tech takes about 1800mah most of the time now, although I have setup cut off power on my ESC, so I might not be running them as low as I used to... I don't get the "FULL" sign anymore when balance charging them, although they still take the same amount of mAh...
1) Would the lower amount of mah charged up, be due to not using quite as much when running?
2) Should I assume that the damage to the cheaper batteries was done a long time ago? when I ran my boat without cutoff? (one actually burst before I set the cut-off voltage up)
3) Is it my charger that is crap, and I need to go get a good one? (I'm running an Extreme-Racing R-605, pretty much the same as a Turnigy Accucel-6)
4) Is the battery problem, on cheaper ones, because I've got a massive 120amp ESC, which feeds the motor pretty much as many amps as it can take... And so the discharge C rating is impeeding the flow of electricity, thus damaging the battery (same as chargin a 1C battery at 10C, just the other way aroung)??
Thanks for your input
Martin

1, yes it's possible that now that the cut off is set up, you are not drawing as much and therefore not charging as much.
remember that most manufacturers rate the capacity of a pack at 1C discharge rates and they go to 3.0V per cell when testing.
i use 3.5V cut off for my lipo's, so i dont get near the numbers that they claim.

higher amp loads usually mean less capacity available for use.

2, also possible (in fact probably the main reason for the reduced capacity)

3, there are heaps of better chargers out there than the accucell 6 and it's clones.
it realy depends on how much you want to spend. my charging set up cost a bomb, but im not likely to ever need to upgrade.

4, you can and will cause puffy batteries by using cheap low C rate atteries in a high demand setup like a jet boat with a 120A ESC.
even my 2200 nanotech 2S packs get very warm and puff a little during discharge in the boat. and they are supposed to be 35C (70C burst)
and my boat has the 35A seaking ESC in it.

Jason.

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:00 PM
  #3121
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Thanks for that mate!! It all made sense, and it seems that all is as I suspected
I'm glad to hear about the lower usage of mah in other peoples R/C gear by setting the cutof V

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ratrunner
even my 2200 nanotech 2S packs get very warm and puff a little during discharge in the boat. and they are supposed to be 35C (70C burst)
and my boat has the 35A seaking ESC in it.
Oh OK, cool, coz my 3S 2200mah battery gets warm too, not puffy, just slightly tighter/bulgier

The coupler for my new boat arrived yesterday, man, 4mm is big compared to 2.3mm shafts LOL This is going to be fun!!

Cheers
Martin
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:55 AM
  #3122
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yeah, when i said puffy, i didn't mean it's totally puffy, just that you can definitely see a little swelling, and it's very warm after a run (about 5.5 minutes)

Jason.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:39 PM
  #3123
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same as mine I'd say
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:43 PM
  #3124
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left the jet boat sitting on the back seat, then a day later, flipped the whole seat down... Now I've got no roll cage I'm not sure if I'll just use the one off my new boat, or if I will make one like skR8Pn...

Do you mind posting some instructions on how to build one yourself?

Cheers
Martin
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #3125
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something fun arrived in the mail
Thinking of a big-jet conversion... not sure yet though... was it Cornwall RC Boats that had the Graupner jet? Might need to go have a looksie
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