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HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

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Old 08-17-2010, 09:45 AM
  #151
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

I would agree on the soft cutoff . . . but make sure that you have a higher cutoff value set.
I think 3.2V is the norm nowadays - this will provide for cell imbalance.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:02 AM
  #152
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Yesterday I was able to test the small bolt. When I just started the boat didn't want to plane but after a few seconds it went. I had to build up the throttle. When I just pull the trigger to full throttle the boat won't plane. I had the battery (2200mah 3s) placed crosswise behind the motor but at speed the small bolt's nose just starts 'clapping' on the water. so I guess I have turn the battery and place is in the length of the boat so the nose gets a bit more weight.

In corners the boat behaves very good. Unfortunately it was quite dark when I tested so I wasn't able to make a video of it. Today I have to sharpen my Octura x432 prop. As I read a few pages ago this prop will increase performance, right?
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:18 AM
  #153
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

My boat speeds up for several seconds, than plane. It also depends on freshness of the battery.
Usually the closer CG to the nose, the harder boat to plane. For example when my boat had filled with water it still had planed, but after stop I had to hold nose up for water to flow to the bottom, than I continued run. If I hadn't done so it won't plane.
But I have battery placed in straight direction.
I still run on stock prop. Want to find and try 40x30.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:37 AM
  #154
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Have you guys tried adjusting the strut height?
Wish I could also try out my boat but my 3S is still in the mail. []
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:59 AM
  #155
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

I have tried it a bit.
Because I have disassembled it.
But I moved it only 1-2mm from the original position. Probably to the top. Tried to put it "horizontally". Nothing have changed. It's hard to see changes.
When I will disassemble it again i put it in position close to stock. Also because I don't want to apply force to metal tube.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:15 AM
  #156
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I have tried to adjust the strut height but I haven't seen a difference. Maybe it is fine tuning?

I was very very happy to see there was no water inside the hull yesterday after I ran two batteries. there were a few minor water drops but not a problem at all because I think my taping wasn't very good (I was in a hurry). Next time I put some toilet paper in the hull to catch the water drops.

I also used the method with the shrink tube on the strut/shaft as mentioned a few posts ago.

As a spare motor is just ordered this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I guess 3S is the max. recommended for this boat due to boat behavior on high speed and there are several people who used 4S and then fried their motor. I don't want that to happen because I wanted this boat for durability in the first place.

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Old 08-18-2010, 04:28 AM
  #157
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

Sponges better than the toilet paper.
Kitchen or for cleaning soldering iron tips.
I put several pieces of sponges near the motor and shaft.

I also mentioned that we should look for the spare bronze slide bearings (inside the strut). It probably will be good to exchange them for the next year runs...
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:57 AM
  #158
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Yura

Sponges better than the toilet paper.
Kitchen or for cleaning soldering iron tips.
I put several pieces of sponges near the motor and shaft.
I also mentioned that we should look for the spare bronze slide bearings (inside the strut). It probably will be good to exchange them for the next year runs...
Yes, Sponges. I never thought about it but I guess it would do the job better than toilet paper.
About the bearings, I never realised there were bearings inside, but now you mention it I guess they need to be exchanged sometime.


Yesterday I also tested myNQDArrow Wind Rigger with the new setup (new shaft and tube etc, 4Slipo)but this boat was completely loaded with water. I already sealed every gap/screw/hole Icould find but this time the water was major Lucky I had waterproofed every electrical part inside the boat. So I have more work to do for sealing this boat.

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Old 08-19-2010, 01:38 AM
  #159
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I now use the Octura x432 prop. what a difference! it planes a lot better and the boat is a lot faster.
I was in my 1:1 boat at the pond and was playing with the small bolt. I a few seconds a lot of kids with parents where looking at my boat, very nice.
But at once, the boat didn't turn left anymore. So I got it out of the water and concluded that the stock servo died.
As said, I did my homework on the thread and when I ordered the small bolt I also orderded a metal geared mini servo.
I replaced the servo and tested the steering. I discovered that the part of the boat's floor underneath the servo is moving a little bit along with the servo. Is that normal or should I strengthen the floor with polyester?

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Old 08-19-2010, 03:27 AM
  #160
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

I just applied a bit of epoxy around servo mount.
Also I decreased moving range (D/R ajust available on my transmitter) from maximum to the middle.
And I have bent pushrod to avoid touching the edges of the hole. After this useless servo load that was just bending the floor decreased.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:25 AM
  #161
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Yura

I just applied a bit of epoxy around servo mount.
Also I decreased moving range (D/R ajust available on my transmitter) from maximum to the middle.
And I have bent pushrod to avoid touching the edges of the hole. After this useless servo load that was just bending the floor decreased.
Decreasing the maximum steering range is what I did too. I am going to try bending the pushrod too. I think that will do. Do you still have the stock pushrod?
I 've seen other pushrods with kind of ball joints.

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Old 08-19-2010, 04:32 AM
  #162
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

I used a little 5 minute epoxy for gluing the servo to the hull. That zip tie just won't suffice. The 5-minute expoxy remains pliable even after a while so in case you need to take out the servo, it will be somewhat easier to do. Don't use the slow cure epoxy, that will be a permanent bond.

I also notice binding in the steering. Like Yura, I also bent the steering rod to clear the hole. Smooth steering now. I believe this binding contributes to a dead servo after a while of struggling on water..

Lastly, I also noticed binding when turning the prop, even with the motor disengaged. I believe this is caused by the drive dog grinding against the strut. I decided to leave a little clearance in between, greasedthe cable/shaftafter and now it spins freely!

Remember, the flexshaft will contract at speed so if you don't have any clearance to begin with, binding will be severe at speed.

nick - what temps are you getting on that X432?
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:43 AM
  #163
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

So I guess I have to remove the zip tie and glue the servo to the hull? I am thinking of using a hot glue gun. A few drops of glue did the job in my other boat as well.

@Carakter/Yura: Can you post a picture of how you bend the pushrod? I think the friction between the pushrod and the side of the gap is the main cause of the floor moving when steering.

@ Carakter: do you mean the temp of the ESC or the motor's temp? I have an infrared temperature meter so I can check it. Yesterday I was running full throttle for about a minute of 3-4. And when I removed the hatch I felt that the motor wasn't really hot. Putting my finger on it without burning was no problem.
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Old 08-19-2010, 05:06 AM
  #164
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: nickster46

So I guess I have to remove the zip tie and glue the servo to the hull? I am thinking of using a hot glue gun. A few drops of glue did the job in my other boat as well.

I'm sorry . . . I meant gluing it to the plywood servo mount. Once around should be enough.

@Carakter/Yura: Can you post a picture of how you bend the pushrod? I think the friction between the pushrod and the side of the gap is the main cause of the floor moving when steering.

check the pics in My Gallery (lower left bottom). But it's no big deal. Just bend it where the hole is - downwards, just a bit. .and that's it!

@ Carakter: do you mean the temp of the ESC or the motor's temp? I have an infrared temperature meter so I can check it. Yesterday I was running full throttle for about a minute of 3-4. And when I removed the hatch I felt that the motor wasn't really hot. Putting my finger on it without burning was no problem.

Both. But if you can hold the motor adfter a run then I guess it's fine!
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Old 08-19-2010, 07:08 AM
  #165
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

Yesterday I went for a run with the small bolt. I only had one 2200mah 3s battery. Runtime was about 10-15minutes (not running full throttle all the time)wich I was very pleased with.The water was a bit rough, the boat wouldn't really plane and the front was clapping on the water. During the run the boat flipped over twice and landed on his roof in the water. I was in my 1:1 boat so I could get to the boat. I opened the boat and concluded that there was no water at all, not a single drip!!!

After a few minutes of full throttle I had my finger on the motor to check the temp but I could hold my finger on it for a while without burning, so no problem with the octura x432 prop.

I'm still not satisfied with the pushrod from servo to rudder. The servo is still moving the floor of the boat. I was thinking about using a piece of welding copper. I can route it perfect from servo to rudder.





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Old 08-23-2010, 03:26 AM
  #166
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: nickster46
I'm still not satisfied with the pushrod from servo to rudder. The servo is still moving the floor of the boat. I was thinking about using a piece of welding copper. I can route it perfect from servo to rudder.
Are you sure you double checked the rudder?it should move from left to right freely if you disengage the pushrod.
Did you bend the pushrod? It may have not cleared the hole completely, rubbing on the sides.
There should be no servo case movement except from the servo arm if there is no binding.
If there is then the culprit is just between the rudder or the pushrod.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:12 AM
  #167
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: carakter


Quote:
ORIGINAL: nickster46
I'm still not satisfied with the pushrod from servo to rudder. The servo is still moving the floor of the boat. I was thinking about using a piece of welding copper. I can route it perfect from servo to rudder.
Are you sure you double checked the rudder?it should move from left to right freely if you disengage the pushrod.
Did you bend the pushrod? It may have not cleared the hole completely, rubbing on the sides.
There should be no servo case movement except from the servo arm if there is no binding.
If there is then the culprit is just between the rudder or the pushrod.

I will double check the pushrod today. I guess it still hits the sides of the hole.

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Old 08-23-2010, 05:18 AM
  #168
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

Yesterday I did some runs with the small bolt again, with a shrinktube between shaft and strut, and with some sponges in the hull. This looks like the solution, there was no water in the boat.
It seems that the esc can do his job (not warm at all, just as the motor and lipopack) but everytime after a minute of 3 the esc starts to decrease the power. I also had this with another boat with the same type of esc. I find these esc's a bit strange, it seems you can not adjust this esc at all, not to you own transmitter, or different cut offs, etc. Does anyone know how you can program these esc's?
I'am not shure if the cut off is set properly... Normally you must run more than 3 minutes, with these boats and standard motor, even with standard prop and in my case a 3s/1500 mAh lipopack. Maybe a watercooled Turnigy 40 amps plush or sentry can give the difference?

Greetings, BJ
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:58 AM
  #169
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

>><meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId"><meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Generator"><meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Originator"><link href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CNICK%7E1.FIE%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp %5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel="File-List" />@beejay1: What exactly isthe ‘size’ of the decrease in power? Is it like it runs on half of the normalspeed? Or is it just a little bit less power?

Does your watercooling work properly? Can you see water coming out ofthe water outlet at the back?

I do have a little (very very little) decrease of power after a secondof 30 after I start running the small bolt. But this is a minor difference andmaybe it is the battery losing his first strenght. I do not use the stock esc but a 60Awatercooled esc.

Sponges and that shrink tube are working great for me. My hull stayscompletely dry after 2 batteries running empty.



@others: about the water output at the back of the boat: Can you see alot of water coming out of the outlet, like a jet? Or is it just a little bitleaking away? Because I checked mine on the water coming out when running but Icouldn’t see water coming out. I wasn’trunning full throttle. When I blowthrough the silicone tube there comes water out of the outlet so it isn’t obstructed.There are no strong corners in the silicone tubes.

Or is it just that the rudder picks up water at high speeds?
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:19 AM
  #170
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

Decrease in power is after a minute of 3 almost total, and than the boat stops. Wait a half minute, and I can run again full speed but almost direct the boat slows in speed again and stops. I can not see if the watercooling works behind the boat (too much waterspray!), but motor and esc are not warm and I see water in the hsilicone tube, so I assume that the watercooling works well. I measured the pack, it was 3,86 V each! So I suspect the ESC is not working as it should be. A different esc with proper cut off should give the answer.

I try if this standard esc is indeed programmable, just try out some things and some 'Mystery' or 'Suppo' programs. Maybe even a hobbywing program card can perhaps give an answer... we would see.

Greetings, BJ

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Old 08-23-2010, 06:38 AM
  #171
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR



BJ - Is your battery fairly new? When you charge it, do you still put in 1500mah? or less?
Do you use a Balance Charger? Is the 3.86V readout (per cell)after you've used it? or after charging?

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Old 08-23-2010, 06:40 AM
  #172
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

It looks like the ESC is turning into the protection program because you can resume running after half a minute.
Most of these 'flat' esc's are programmable by fullthrottle/neutral point/lowest point on your transmitter.
When you go to my profile I uploaded my user's manual at the tab BLOGS.
Maybe it will work for your ESC too.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:11 AM
  #173
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

It is normal for a battery to recover some voltage after shutdown. But it won't go very far because it does not have the mah left to push it, just as BJ reported, it shuts down after a few seconds. The reason I am asking for the battery statistics is a process of elimination. Best to rule out the battery as suspect first before the esc.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:34 AM
  #174
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Pekka L


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dhoyt7141


Quote:
ORIGINAL: carakter
Have you guys tried a 4800Kv motor . . . also available from HK?
I'm still running the stock motor, mainly because I am very pleased and satisfied with how it runs right now.
Or maybe just try with 4s batteries? 14,8V x 2604kV makes ~38500rpm :-P
I used two 1250mAh 2s 30C batteries in series. Works well... Altough I have different ESC.
With two batteries you can place each battery (partly?) in front sponson. In the maiden run video I placed my batteries deep in the sponsons. Having mass spread wider inside the boat should make it more stabile... ?
I'm not sure where the COG should be?

Anybody else who runs the stock motor on 4S? My ESC can handle up to 18v so that's not the problem but I am a bit scared about burning the motor.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:41 AM
  #175
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Default RE: HK Small Bolt Hydro same as HOTR

To beejay1: I also agree that your problem is 90% in battery or it's charging. Also take a look on connectors and clean it if needed.

I also can't see water coming out - it's very hard, because it's not strong water flow even at high speeds...
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