Rake

Hi Von Ohain, thanks for the reply.

This is my point. It could have been the BEC all along.
I bet I wont get a warranty on it though and I have a wrecked hull.

When I connected the ESC to the Rx and cells today, the caps at the top heated to the point that they could burn me within 30 seconds, but that was after the crash and after having been submerged.

I dont use a ferrite as its 2.4ghz.
In this hull there is not enough room for an Rx pack either.

Von Ohain

I would try using a ferrite ring.
Fair enough, the 2.4GHz wireless transmission is pretty much foolproof, but its not black magic.
BEC noise comes through, cable side, and is channeled unfiltered through to all servos, via +5vdc and ground (red and black wires).
In other words, it doesn't help you a bit if the 2.4GHz receiver is flawless, when the switch noise from the BEC is knocking out the servos directly, via the supply voltage.

I recommend always using a ferrite ring on BEC, wether its integrated into ESC, or a separate BEC.
BECs often utilize switched power supplies, which is very noisy, and bad for electromagnetic compatibility with other components (namely, servos or receiver).

Rake

Ok I see your point and will try it out.
Only issue is the there is not enough cable to wind around the ring unless the esc and Rx are co located.

Further to this, why am I the only one of us using similar setups to be having so much trouble ? Hardly a quantifiable question but my experiences do beggar belief.

sundogz

Yes, Von Ohain has a point. If it is the bec at fault, it could be checked with a 6v. pack plugged into any channel. And if the esc works, you could disconnect the red wire and run it with a cheapo (5$) external bec. I've had to do that with a 180A esc that got cockey. But the caps heating up doesn't sound good. 2S has worked good with high kv motors, and I think you already have some 2S lipos - or do you anymore? - it's hard to keep up

Basstronics

My Feedback: (2)

My vote is 3S and the Tacon 3600 KV motor.



Hopefully I can get on the water this weekend!

Rake

Well the ESC has gone back to astec for testing and subsequent postal back to ETTI.

My theory is that the BEC was on its way out anyway and was the potential cause of this crash but I doubt I'll get etti to agree to that.
I will try though. The caps heating up is a new thing since the crash so its probably goosed now anyway.

Regarding 2S / 3S -

Bass - I need to hear more from you on your experiences with that setup.

Sdz - the second 2200 40C has slight puffing too ! Only used it for 4 runs, both of them puffed so I am in a dilema but I have ordered another 2200 40C from HK to come with the new hull.
I will have a think and may go with the seaking as you suggest. Is it fully waterproofed ? Maybe I should get into submarines !

Von Ohain

This "fully waterproofed" thing is in my experience only splash resistant at best.
If water gets into the hull and splashes around, it wont be many runs before the ESC starts to glitch.
Wether the ESC is waterproofed or not, I recommend putting it inside a balloon, run the wires and coolant lines out the opening wich you in turn seal with silicone.

Rake

Thats the funny thing with the bolt. many people have water ingress issues with the stuffing tube.

It still stands though that I seem to be the only one blowing esc's servo's regularly.

Every time I have used a balloon on my Rx there is always condensate or moisture inside.

The etti is encased in non acetic silicone and is highly regarded. It does not use conformal coating like most do.

Von Ohain

Same with the Surge Crusher, wich I previously had. Plenty water got inside.
Putting a shrink tube around the stuffing tube and all the way back to the prop strut improved the problem a lot, allthough not fixing it completely.

To avoid condensate inside the ballon, put the RX inside the ballon when you are in a dry and cold environment, and make sure to seal it properly with a sealant that doesn't breathe, and doesn't allow capillar forces to draw water in between the ballon skin, and the glue itself.
Wet room sealing silicone (Sorry, don't know the proper English word) works well for me.

Rake

Yep, tried the shrink wrap on the tube, works ok when greased but then grease gets washed out and water comes back after 1 run.

Will take on board the balloon suggestion.

Thanks.

sundogz

Rake, no the Seaking is not waterproof, it is water resistant. I was suggesting it based on the high amp rating and its ability to keep going under heavy sustained loads. If you plan to immerse it (and you do) you should use non-acetic silicone in both ends. I usually just mount it up under the canopy where it will stay dry and forget it. But then, I'm not submarining boats . On the 2S - I just thought you already had some 2S batteries and was trying to save you $. A 4800kv 2040 shouldn't be puffing 40C batteries in such a small boat unless there is some kind of binding. That is over an 88 amp draw! It could be that the 'economy' Turnigy batteries are not as good as they used to be, since they now have the 'Nano' hi C lipos available. I have recently heard on the OSE board that some others have experienced puffing Turnigys as well. Bad bad bad. If that's the case, I'm sorry for recommending them to you. But the Turnigy esc is a step in the right direction I believe. At least from my experiences with it.

Rake

Cool sdz.

I was on the HK site and one of those pop ups came on while looking at the esc - $39.99 down from 59.99 but on back order.

I ordered it.

I have one more 40C coming, but in future I may look for something else now as you say - 2 puffers in 4 runs on that motor is ridiculous.
the flightpower eonx looks to be outstripping the turngys.

Rake

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...p?f=14&t=22650


eeek

sundogz

May be worth a try. Do you feel lucky?![X(]

Rake

thats a rhetorical question sdz.

if my RC experience is anything to go by I should be 6ft under by now !

I'm going back to flightpower. No more messing to save a buck or two and losing 50.
I'll sell that turnigy when it arrives.

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/

Basstronics

My Feedback: (2)

Where were you at with your props Rake? Maybe that was the culprit...

As far as the 2,3 and 4S debate goes- its all about that prop RPM and C rating as far as Im concerned. If I could get my Bolt NOT to take on water I think it would be a missile and worth trying a slightly larger prop. The whole taking on water thing concerns me the most. I got some cash tied up into the boat and I would cry if I lost her.

Rake

Hi Bass, 30mm prop. She was only on the water for 2-3 mins before this happened. Not alot of time to take on much water but highly possible she did.
Dude - I'm crying bucket here. 2 wrecked hulls and i dare not tell my wife how much cash I have spent.

Anyway, I have some news....

Astec were kind enough to test my ESC and the BEC is putting out 4.8v no problem and no heating up. ESC is fine and not the problem.
I also now know that this ESC is bombproof and also highly waterproof - 60A turnigy ESC order cancelld.

I think I have found part of the problem I just tried the stock bolt esc that came with it along side a keda 4800kv with no servo plugged in and all was well.

The Rx bound to the Tx, the Rx LED was solid red and the motor bleeped and responded perfectly to the throttle.

I then plugged the savox SH-0256 servo I bought the other day in and No Rx LED, no response from the servo or throttle and no beeps from the motor / esc.

I then found that both the ESC and servo were heating up beyoned the norm.

I hooked up another servo that has never been used and everything worked fine again.

This proves the Tx / Rx, ESC and motor.

So it looks like something is causing the servo's to very regularly and this is affecting the Rx.

3 quality servo's all failed leading to crashes and all manner of unwanted results. £65 on servo's alone.

This must be what caused the crash, but what could be causing the servo's to fail in this way ? water ? but the servo's are waterproof.

nickster46

servos are weird thing. they can malfunctioning without a warning. I've had a couple of blown servo's on my HPI car and there was no sand, water or something else.
What kind of servos are you unsing? GBP 65!!!!!!!???? That must be a very expensive servo than!
I bought the most el cheapo micro servo I could find for my boats,

this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-9g-Mini-...item230989fbb6

I destroyed a couple of them due to water problems in my NQD Arrow Wind, wich I was able to sell a couple of weeks ago.

Rake

Hi Nick,

yes but 3 servos one after the other ? how ?

I used traxxas 2065 x 2 £25 each
Savox SH-0256 x 1 £17.95

something is causing these to blow which takes out the Rx and causes the crash. I need to find out what....

nickster46

I don't know Rake, wish I could help you out with this.
but you can always try an el cheapo servo. It saves you money so you can buy a present for the wife

Rake

Hi Nick, I could but I need to get to the bottom of this before I crash again.
I'm reluctant to go out on the water without knowing the root cause.

nickster46

I can understand that Rake. But the show must go on as well.. The best solution is to start over with new equipment, but that's expensive as well.

Rake

Hi nick,

Already done this, this is all new - esc, cells, motor, driveline, Tx/Rx....

astec is testing the esc with servo's under load now.

Basstronics

My Feedback: (2)

What havent you changed that could be the culprit?

Whats remained the same on every run?

Have you been running the same Rx? Maybe not the same but same brand? I know you switched ESC's and motors. So that cant be it.

I would try another radio system all together and go from there.The power for the servo is being routed through it- so it could be the possible culprit.

Rake

I think I just got a handle on whats been going on.

We have 3 blown servo's and a loss of signal to the Rx.

What could make the fets on a servo blow ? Binding.

If the endpoints are set too high and the servo binds, blows the fets killing or overloading the Rx signal - this could explain it all.

Fact is that when the blown servo is connected to the Rx, there is no signal accounting to the loss of control. The blown servo's have to be key to this problem.

We all know that the actuator rod / bellows and rudder alignment on the bolt leaves alot to be desired !

Do you guys set your endpoints and D/R and expo ? mine on the FS are 100% left and right, D/R is 100% too expo is 0.